Thanks for the detailed description. Not seen much of either of them but you make a compelling argument for Konate. In that case I'm in.@Fortitude This post sums it up perfectly for me from @Andersons Dietician
Both are potentially excellent but the alpha CB in the making is the younger but physically even more imposing figure of Ibrahima Konate IMO. His ability in the air, along with his monster ability to win ground duels along with his ability to play out from the back make him the most interesting young CB I've seen in many many years. He's also shown composure and consistency over the course of a season that I've never seen in a young CB in the 18/19 season where RBL had the best defensive record in the BuLi playing a high press with Konate the main factor in that backline which was without Upamecano. Konate was infact so good that one German media outlet gave him their player of the year award and described him as being a revelation and he was only 19 at the time.
And it's not only me who rates him higher from the evidence at hand. Andy Brassel who is a European football correspondent and appears on the BBC and ESPN from time to time, said that he doesn't believe Upamecano is even the best CB at RBL. Alex Chaffer who is the Bundesliga English content manager tipped Konate along with Sule to be the two best CBs in the world in the future.
Now I'm not saying I'm right and everybody else is wrong because Konate could return from his lengthy spell out and not rediscover the form he was showing previously. But I will call it out in the FF because I'm gonna watch both Gladbach and RBL in the BuLi in the upcoming season.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...19-20-stats-to-man-utds-current-centre-backs/
Seems Smalling is not that bad
How many passes over 5 yards does Smalling make?Passing accuracy
Chris Smalling – 90.5%
Dayot Upamecano – 89.1%
Harry Maguire – 86.7%
Victor Lindelof – 86.5%
Hope the resident 'experts' who claim Chris Smalling isn't good enough have a good read of that.Seems Smalling is not that bad
2019-2020 Season
Successful tackles per 90 minutes (success rate)
Dayot Upamecano – 2.0 (74%)
Harry Maguire – 1.0 (71.4%)
Chris Smalling – 0.9 (90%)
Victor Lindelof – 0.8 (88.8%)
Successful aerial duels per 90 minutes (success rate)
Harry Maguire – 4.6 (70.7%)
Chris Smalling – 3.3 (70.2%)
Victor Lindelof – 2.8 (66.6%)
Dayot Upamecano – 2.1 (65.6%)
Interceptions per 90 minutes
Chris Smalling – 2.0
Harry Maguire – 1.9
Dayot Upamecano – 1.6
Victor Lindelof – 0.8
Clearances per 90 minutes
Chris Smalling – 4.2
Harry Maguire – 4.1
Victor Lindelof – 3.5
Dayot Upamecano – 3.2
Passing accuracy
Chris Smalling – 90.5%
Dayot Upamecano – 89.1%
Harry Maguire – 86.7%
Victor Lindelof – 86.5%
Goals
Chris Smalling – 3
Harry Maguire – 1
Victor Lindelof – 1
Dayot Upamecano – 0
Sancho will be more unattainable for the exact reason Upamecano will be too. They will be massively sought after - besides I don't think going for him now will slow down Sancho. That's a deal destined to be wrapped up at the bitter end if at all.
If anything with that low release clause in his contract you could argue there will be a shed load more clubs sniffing around Dayot. You won't get a better deal for a more talented CB.Yeah next summer there will be so much more competition for him & Sancho,therefore we need to get them now or risk missing out completely
Konate is considered the General by many observers of the player while IMO Upamecano is the complimentary CB. I can't ever see Upamecano being as dominant as Konate aerially for obvious reasons. Upamecano also has had an extra year of development at the Red Bull school which many don't know about. Upamecano's passing ability through the lines was also better but Konate was closing the gap in that regard and in some games I watched him play in, he was hitting 60, 70 yard pings with either foot with great accuracy. He just needs to become more consistent which will happen as he progresses. But what people don't know is that Konate was statistically the best CB in the BuLi at bringing the ball out of defence. Both players have room for improvement.Not opposed to any of that, and did say the trajectory of both is that Konate just needs to keep doing what he has been doing to be a world class CB throughout his career whereas Upamenco needs to work on certain aspects to reach that bar, however, it was the 'Robin' comment, that for me, suggested a sizeable gulf between them that I was surprised by.
On one level, I see what you mean as, right now, Konate is much more the finished article, but on the other, a sidekick is just that, and that's not really what I consider Upamenco to be, rather, someone who is at a different stage in his development and understanding of the game to Konate.
Perhaps it's more than a simple case of maturity at different rates, but to me, the story for the two of them is far from concluded as we've no real idea where either of them will max out and have no more growth left in them.
I will keep you guys updated because I'll be watching both RBL and Gladbach regularly in the new season. Will update the relevant threads in the football forum.Thanks for the detailed description. Not seen much of either of them but you make a compelling argument for Konate. In that case I'm in.
AgreedYeah next summer there will be so much more competition for him & Sancho,therefore we need to get them now or risk missing out completely
He isn’t bad at all, but stats are almost useless for evaluating center backs. I mean, how many tackles per game did Rio make? It’s so dependent on both player’s and team’s playing style.Seems Smalling is not that bad
If anything with that low release clause in his contract you could argue there will be a shed load more clubs sniffing around Dayot. You won't get a better deal for a more talented CB.
Definitely now this summer if we can. Just pointing out there could be four or five clubs chasing him by next summer with that low release clause in play.So are you saying we should get him before the window closes or wait until next summer I am a little confused
Definitely now this summer if we can. Just pointing out there could be four or five clubs chasing him by next summer with that low release clause in play.
Mentioned further back in the thread that we should go in 15-20 mill more than his future release clause to get him in now. I rate him that highly, and would hate to miss out on him like we did way back for Varane.
Loll how has he admitted he’s speaking with other clubs.
there are chimps who say he was never a good defender but safe to ignore themSeems Smalling is not that bad
2019-2020 Season
Successful tackles per 90 minutes (success rate)
Dayot Upamecano – 2.0 (74%)
Harry Maguire – 1.0 (71.4%)
Chris Smalling – 0.9 (90%)
Victor Lindelof – 0.8 (88.8%)
Successful aerial duels per 90 minutes (success rate)
Harry Maguire – 4.6 (70.7%)
Chris Smalling – 3.3 (70.2%)
Victor Lindelof – 2.8 (66.6%)
Dayot Upamecano – 2.1 (65.6%)
Interceptions per 90 minutes
Chris Smalling – 2.0
Harry Maguire – 1.9
Dayot Upamecano – 1.6
Victor Lindelof – 0.8
Clearances per 90 minutes
Chris Smalling – 4.2
Harry Maguire – 4.1
Victor Lindelof – 3.5
Dayot Upamecano – 3.2
Passing accuracy
Chris Smalling – 90.5%
Dayot Upamecano – 89.1%
Harry Maguire – 86.7%
Victor Lindelof – 86.5%
Goals
Chris Smalling – 3
Harry Maguire – 1
Victor Lindelof – 1
Dayot Upamecano – 0
We need to step in on this one because after all there is history between us and him from when he was just 17
If he happens then I would like to submit this chant.
Dayot
Daaayot
Dayot starts and we don't concede.
Aerially worse than Lindelof? Not saying that isn't accurate because Upamecano is quite short for a CB but if you can kindly share the source of those stats I'd be interested cheers.Seems Smalling is not that bad
2019-2020 Season
Successful tackles per 90 minutes (success rate)
Dayot Upamecano – 2.0 (74%)
Harry Maguire – 1.0 (71.4%)
Chris Smalling – 0.9 (90%)
Victor Lindelof – 0.8 (88.8%)
Successful aerial duels per 90 minutes (success rate)
Harry Maguire – 4.6 (70.7%)
Chris Smalling – 3.3 (70.2%)
Victor Lindelof – 2.8 (66.6%)
Dayot Upamecano – 2.1 (65.6%)
Interceptions per 90 minutes
Chris Smalling – 2.0
Harry Maguire – 1.9
Dayot Upamecano – 1.6
Victor Lindelof – 0.8
Clearances per 90 minutes
Chris Smalling – 4.2
Harry Maguire – 4.1
Victor Lindelof – 3.5
Dayot Upamecano – 3.2
Passing accuracy
Chris Smalling – 90.5%
Dayot Upamecano – 89.1%
Harry Maguire – 86.7%
Victor Lindelof – 86.5%
Goals
Chris Smalling – 3
Harry Maguire – 1
Victor Lindelof – 1
Dayot Upamecano – 0
Yeah completely agree with you and oh god it was Varane or Jones supposedly back in the summer of 2011 wasn't it
It was... until Zidane contacted him apparently. Then we had no chance.
Stats have their purposes. But they make me nauseous and cringe at this point and so does over edited goals and skills highlights compilations at this point. There are tons of them.Seeing all this stats dick measuring only makes me remember Bruno was initially rejected because of stats.
I actually think that's a very real possibility if Ogden is correct.So we are not buying Sancho because of price but some posters think we will spend 50-60 mil on this kid after spending 40mil on VDB??
Pass me the pipe!
So we are not buying Sancho because of price but some posters think we will spend 50-60 mil on this kid after spending 40mil on VDB??
Pass me the pipe!
What's interesting is that Ogden is saying that the Sancho deal has hit a impasse not because of Dortmund's asking price but rather the money that's being asked by the player and agent.
Yeah, that was a shocker to me as well. Agents are scum.
Not nuts at all. If I wasn’t so faithful in my belief of Sancho’s arrival I’d have said that is the most likely outcome.Actually might well be more chance of us signing this guy than Sancho which I know probably sounds nuts. Despite their cheeky tweets I would still imagine they are easier to deal with than Dortmund.
Ogden also says the higher ups need convincing before they shell out on Upamecano.
I personally can see why they'd have reservations after breaking the world transfer record on Maguire and still being asked for funds to sign someone to cover up for his defeciencies.
Don't expect many to agree with me.
Ogden also says the higher ups need convincing before they shell out on Upamecano.
I personally can see why they'd have reservations after breaking the world transfer record on Maguire and still being asked for funds to sign someone to cover up for his defeciencies.
Don't expect many to agree with me.
Raiola all over again but they why hasn't Romano mentioned there being an issue with fees yet
Just wondering, how did you think he looked alone this year with Konate out often?Konate is considered the General by many observers of the player while IMO Upamecano is the complimentary CB. I can't ever see Upamecano being as dominant as Konate aerially for obvious reasons. Upamecano also has had an extra year of development at the Red Bull school which many don't know about. Upamecano's passing ability through the lines was also better but Konate was closing the gap in that regard and in some games I watched him play in, he was hitting 60, 70 yard pings with either foot with great accuracy. He just needs to become more consistent which will happen as he progresses. But what people don't know is that Konate was statistically the best CB in the BuLi at bringing the ball out of defence. Both players have room for improvement.
This reminds me of a debate I had in 2002 about two young kids who were in the SCP academy Ronaldo and Quaresma. The older Quaresma was consider the bigger talent by most SCP fans whilst Ronaldo was considered a talent but not on the same technical level as Quaresma who was said to be superior on the ball. It took a few years but eventually Ronaldo proved me right. Of course I could be wrong too..
I'd actually be more dissapointed if the higher ups didn't have reservations.I'm with you. The higher ups will say after spending 130 million on defenders last season, you're asking for another 50-60? Hmmm....
We got ripped off on both Maguire and AWB at those prices.
