David Moyes West Ham Manager | Gone (pedantic sod Sarni)

[stevoc]

@Sarni
I didn't buy into it, it's my very own opinion.

Doing poorly at United doesn't make a difference to me, I just write it off as the job being too big for him. Sunderland is Sunderland (I dare you to contradict me on that) and Sociedad should not be used as a barometer for how he does in English football.

Saying that he is bragging is funny. He doesn't call press conferences or set up interviews and he doesn't ask the questions. If he talks about Barcelona, it's because others have asked him about it. He's been obliging, which is nearly the opposite to bragging.

The Sunderland job was too big for him, never mind United. Your whole argument here can and has already been pulled apart. But i get what you are saying mate, if you disregard his last 3 clubs where he was a complete and utter failure then yeah he isn't doing too badly i suppose.

@stevoc
Not offended, just want ol' Dave to show up his detractors. I miss him being at the club. They were good times.

Ok right was really starting to worry you were being serious, good to know you were only on a wind up.

 

[notcool]

Oh lawd.

 

[Piratesoup]

Maybe the dildo brothers are just WHUmming the entire fanbase.
eh eh eh

 

[Kentonio]

Moyes confuses me. Clearly wasnt good enough for United, but he did well at Everton for a long time. Has he just lost his head after the Old Trafford embarrassment or something?

 

[alsabi]

'Pressure mounts on Moyes as Robert Mugabe becomes available'

 

[clarkydaz]

Moyes confuses me. Clearly wasnt good enough for United, but he did well at Everton for a long time. Has he just lost his head after the Old Trafford embarrassment or something?

There was no pressure on him at Everton. Easiest going chairman in the world and a loyal fanbase

 

[Foxbatt]

This is pure bunkum that he was punching above his weight at Everton regularly. This is for new people who think football started in the lat 90s. Everton has always been a top club. Yes they like us suffered too sometimes but did not get relegated like we did in the 70s. Yes they won the League too in the 80s and even the Cup too in the 90s.
Yes they were in the bottom half when he took over and stabilised the club. He was a decent manager there without any expectations and pressure. But that does not negate the fact that Everton is a big club like Spurs and Newcastle etc. In fact Everton always did a lot better than Newcastle who was always like a yoyo.
Moyes came in and was happy to be 6th or 7th. That is the point I am making. He did not punch above his weight with Everton. It was always expected that Everton would finish somewhere around there. Punching above his weight would have been if he had regularly got into the top 4 or at least won something. Now Ranieri punched above his weight for sure with Leicester.

 

[Oggmonster]

This is pure bunkum that he was punching above his weight at Everton regularly. This is for new people who think football started in the lat 90s. Everton has always been a top club. Yes they like us suffered too sometimes but did not get relegated like we did in the 70s. Yes they won the League too in the 80s and even the Cup too in the 90s.
Yes they were in the bottom half when he took over and stabilised the club. He was a decent manager there without any expectations and pressure. But that does not negate the fact that Everton is a big club like Spurs and Newcastle etc. In fact Everton always did a lot better than Newcastle who was always like a yoyo.
Moyes came in and was happy to be 6th or 7th. That is the point I am making. He did not punch above his weight with Everton. It was always expected that Everton would finish somewhere around there. Punching above his weight would have been if he had regularly got into the top 4 or at least won something. Now Ranieri punched above his weight for sure with Leicester.

That's a pretty misguided fact and a way to make him look worse than he was at Everton.

Everton's positions in the Premier League are:

13, 17, 15, 6, 15, 17, 14, 13, 16, 15, 7 (Moyes first full season in charge), 17, 4, 11, 6, 5, 5, 8, 7, 7, 6 (Moyes last season), 5, 11, 11, 7.

Sure they may have been successful in the 70s or 80s but clubs can get worse and it's pretty clear that happened with Everton. If Leeds got promoted now and finished 4th next year would you say that's not that good cos they won a league in the 90s?

It's fair enough to criticise Moyes for United, Sociedad, Sunderland or even towards the end at Everton where people argued they didn't progress enough but look at the positions before his era and then during and it's pretty clear they improved massively. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[Castia]

Sunderland are a joke and Man Utd was tough. Sociedad wasn't that great but it was a different country. He knows English football.

I don't see how eleven years can be described as a perfect storm of circumstances. Maybe for one or two seasons a manager can live off what the previous manager has done but after eleven years it's all down to him. And the club went from being consistently bottom half in the table to being consistently top 7 in his tenure.

You’re.....you’re defending David fecking Moyes...

Take your head for a wobble mate the guy is a fecking cretin. He’ll be sacked before Christmas you watch.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is not an improvement. It is where a club of that stature will be. If he improved that they should have been in the top 4 regularly. This is the whole point. He did not punch above his weight. A club like Everton is bound to finish somewhere in that region.

 

[MThomas]

Sunderland are a joke and Man Utd was tough. Sociedad wasn't that great but it was a different country. He knows English football.

Moyes easily deserves credit for how he turned Everon into a mid table team, but it was pretty clear he reached a point where he was unable to improve Everton any further. Everton fans were happy to see him go, which says it all.

Sunderland have struggled for years, which is fair enough. Though that's hardly an excuse for the way Moyes handled the job. He spent money on utter dross and his press conferences were doom and gloom about relegation. He was an utter failure there, took him a very short amount of time to start talking the club down, impossible job etc.

Just look at the improvement after he fecked off from Sociedad, says it all.

It's pretty obvious that he's going to play a big part in West Ham getting relegated.

My biggest issue with Moyes isn't that he failed at United, it's how he handled himself during his time at the club and after. His complete inability to accept criticism, his shit about how he had a 6 year contract and he thought he was going to get more time, wouldn't change anything.

 

[Cascarino]

It is not an improvement. It is where a club of that stature will be. If he improved that they should have been in the top 4 regularly. This is the whole point. He did not punch above his weight. A club like Everton is bound to finish somewhere in that region.

You keep using historical precedent. What Everton did in the 70s has virtually no bearing on Moyes tenure there. Leeds are a big club, doesn’t mean they should be breaking into the top 4 because of their size.

 

[Foxbatt]

You keep using historical precedent. What Everton did in the 70s has virtually no bearing on Moyes tenure there. Leeds are a big club, doesn’t mean they should be breaking into the top 4 because of their size.

This is not a historical precedent. Everton is a big club then and even now. Just like Manchester United was and is now. The fact that United played in the second division does not make it a small club. Leeds went almost bankrupt. Everton never so. Always a well run club that is considered a big club by any stretch of the imagination. Otherwise why else would someone Like Marco Silva who is managing Watford who is much higher than Everton ever be interested in going down a considerable number of points to manage Everton? The same with Koeman who was doing a better job at Southampton.
The same like Westham and even Newcastle United. They are big clubs with a lot of fans. Everton is and would always be somewhere around the 5th to the 8th place most of the time. No matter who managed it. If Moyes was a good manager he would regularly punch above his weight and get them to the 4th spot more than once. Or at least win any trophy. Either the League Cup or the FA Cup.

 

[notcool]

You’re.....you’re defending David fecking Moyes...

Perhaps this suggests a fanaticism on the part of anti-Moyes posters. Seems like a certain position on this topic is unthinkable for you.

Take your head for a wobble mate the guy is a fecking cretin. He’ll be sacked before Christmas you watch.

Predictions don't mean much.

 

[notcool]

Moyes easily deserves credit for how he turned Everon into a mid table team, but it was pretty clear he reached a point where he was unable to improve Everton any further. Everton fans were happy to see him go, which says it all.

It's not that he couldn't improve them further, it's that they couldn't be improved further. The top 4 is hard to break into. And Everton fans being happy to see him go might only mean that they thought they were better than they were. I remember Curbishley being sacked from Charlton. The fans thought they could do better. Their opinion obviously didn't hold much authority. Says it all.

Just look at the improvement after he fecked off from Sociedad, says it all.

Look at where they were before he joined them. Says it all.

 

[Cascarino]

This is not a historical precedent. Everton is a big club then and even now. Just like Manchester United was and is now. The fact that United played in the second division does not make it a small club. Leeds went almost bankrupt. Everton never so. Always a well run club that is considered a big club by any stretch of the imagination. Otherwise why else would someone Like Marco Silva who is managing Watford who is much higher than Everton ever be interested in going down a considerable number of points to manage Everton? The same with Koeman who was doing a better job at Southampton.
The same like Westham and even Newcastle United. They are big clubs with a lot of fans. Everton is and would always be somewhere around the 5th to the 8th place most of the time. No matter who managed it. If Moyes was a good manager he would regularly punch above his weight and get them to the 4th spot more than once. Or at least win any trophy. Either the League Cup or the FA Cup.

If anyone could have got them finishing where Moyes did, why did they only get a top 7 finish during the premier league era once pre Moyes?

 

[Adisa]

I have a theory that saf probably didn't care much about legacy, but he does care alot about the backroom staff, hence he got moyes since probably he thought he'll take care of them

If that's true, he did the club a huge disservice.
If was his responsibility to appoint the best possible person.
Fortunately, I don't believe that theory.

 

[Sky1981]

If that's true, he did the club a huge disservice.
If was his responsibility to appoint the best possible person.
Fortunately, I don't believe that theory.

It's easier said than done. He's been working with them for a long time

 

[Sky1981]

You’re.....you’re defending David fecking Moyes...

Take your head for a wobble mate the guy is a fecking cretin. He’ll be sacked before Christmas you watch.

And that was before Chelsea's roman, city sheikh, top 6-7 is much easier to get back then. The only competition beyond top 4 is Newcastle and hotspur

 

[Foxbatt]

Moyes got them to finish in the top 4 only once in his life time. Koeman finished 7th his last time and he got sacked this year. Martinez did finish 5th too in his first year. Moyes mostly finished around 5th to th 8th. Most managers do finish around there. Moyes did finish in the 11th too. This is where a club of Everton would be with most managers. That is the point you don't seem to understand. Whether it is Moyes or not Moyes. If he was such a brilliant manager then he would have taken them regularly to the CL spot at least . Or won something for the club. Managers like Redknapp, Martinez, Big Eck and Ranieri won trophies for their smaller clubs. What has Moyes won for Everton? Even Laudrup, Steve McLaren won cups for their clubs.

 

[Minimalist]

@Sarni
I didn't buy into it, it's my very own opinion.

Doing poorly at United doesn't make a difference to me, I just write it off as the job being too big for him. Sunderland is Sunderland (I dare you to contradict me on that) and Sociedad should not be used as a barometer for how he does in English football.

Saying that he is bragging is funny. He doesn't call press conferences or set up interviews and he doesn't ask the questions. If he talks about Barcelona, it's because others have asked him about it. He's been obliging, which is nearly the opposite to bragging.

@stevoc
Not offended, just want ol' Dave to show up his detractors. I miss him being at the club. They were good times.

You are 'this' close to be posted on r/IamVerySmart.

Funny enough pal, I reckon a few of us might just tackle you on your opinions. Not just because you're talking out of arse but also because that's the bloody point of this place!

 

[Sarni]

Look at where they were before he joined them. Says it all.

They finished 7th the season before and 4th before that.

They were 15th after 9 or 10 games when he took over, having already beaten Real Madrid and Atletico so not completely shite. He moved them up three places, barely an improvement.

He left them in 16th place when he was sacked after also 9-10 games. The next manager took them to 9th that season and 7th straight after.

As I said, he actually got you to believe that they were relegation fodder and he miraculously saved them.

 

[Fitchett]

I have often wondered if SAF's ego took control of his senses when he chose Moyes, and I am in absolutely no doubt that Moyes was 100% SAF's choice.
Did SAF think to himself "I've been here 25 years, won 2 European Cups, if Mourinho takes over he could win 2 European Cups in 5 years" (at the time, you'd have been brave to bet against Mourinho achieving that) and SAF has said to himself "Bugger that, I'm not having my legend usurped, I'll choose David Moyes"..

I've often thought that as well. There was no other way to justify appointing Moyes, with his lack of a top track record.

 

[Foxbatt]

yes SAF is mean enough to do that. So Moyes became the fall guy? But then why did he bugger up at Sociedad and at Sunderland too?

 

[Alock1]

I've often thought that as well. There was no other way to justify appointing Moyes, with his lack of a top track record.

People actually believe this?

Sure, maybe that he romanticized having a Scottish manager, who had done a good job over a sustained period at a relatively large Premier League club. And put extra stock in this notion than perhaps he should, but that he wanted the next manager to fail in order to make him seem greater? Christ.

 

[Foxbatt]

Now there are stories that his first signing is going to be Tim Cahill. Cahill has been doing a good job in Australia for his national team in Qualifying for the WC.

 

[Ikon]

For anyone still in denial about the Moyes appointment, here are a couple of quotes from the public announcement...

"The search for a new manager has been very short. Alex was very clear with his recommendation and we are delighted that David has agreed to accept the job” AVIE GLAZER
"When we discussed the candidates that we felt had the right attributes, we unanimously agreed on David Moyes” SAF
"It's a great honour to be asked to be the next manager of Manchester United. I am delighted that Sir Alex saw fit to recommend me for the job.."DAVID MOYES

So it seems very clear that even if there were other candidates mentioned, they were very quickly dismissed from the reckoning, because SAF was determined that Moyes would get the job.

 

[Foxbatt]

We all knew at that time and even Moyes has said it that he was told that he was the next manager of Manchester United. Only a fool would reject the opportunity. But then he made a balls of it by discarding all the advice given to him and determined to change everything back to the way he ran Everton. I have no gripe with him, if he holds up his hands and say It did not work at United and thats a lesson I learnt.
No he insists that he should have been given more time and that he would still do the things exactly the same way.

 

[Ish]

For anyone still in denial about the Moyes appointment, here are a couple of quotes from the public announcement...

"The search for a new manager has been very short. Alex was very clear with his recommendation and we are delighted that David has agreed to accept the job” AVIE GLAZER
"When we discussed the candidates that we felt had the right attributes, we unanimously agreed on David Moyes” SAF
"It's a great honour to be asked to be the next manager of Manchester United. I am delighted that Sir Alex saw fit to recommend me for the job.."DAVID MOYES

So it seems very clear that even if there were other candidates mentioned, they were very quickly dismissed from the reckoning, because SAF was determined that Moyes would get the job.

Yeah, I'd be inclined to believe the above, but SAF also had this to say (which as I've mentioned before in this thread could have been a face saving exercise of sorts):

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-david-moyes-was-sixth-choice-to-replace-him

 

[FootballHQ]

Didn't SAF go to New York midway through that season and meet Guardiola? And found out then he was taking the Bayern Munich job?

Mourinho was also being talked about then (as a neutral I think Man. United should've just appointed him then as I doubt you'd have declined like you did immediately after Fergie went with him in) but he agreed to go back to Chelsea by the time SAF made the retirement announced.

Moyes was just a punt but very quickly everyone saw his limitations. From general set up of the team for big matches to generally being overwhelmed by the size of the club.

He tried to imitate Fergie too much anyway, taking off full backs and throwing on strikers late in games when Man. United were losing. Things SAF would do but he never did that at Everton. Also wearing that club suit with the old crest for the big away games. Again Mourinho dosen't do that.

Odd thing is if Martin O'Neill hadn't walked out and stayed with us for another few seasons he might have nicked ahead of Moyes for the job as him and SAF always got on well. Imagine that football United fans.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

For anyone still in denial about the Moyes appointment, here are a couple of quotes from the public announcement...

"The search for a new manager has been very short. Alex was very clear with his recommendation and we are delighted that David has agreed to accept the job” AVIE GLAZER
"When we discussed the candidates that we felt had the right attributes, we unanimously agreed on David Moyes” SAF
"It's a great honour to be asked to be the next manager of Manchester United. I am delighted that Sir Alex saw fit to recommend me for the job.."DAVID MOYES

So it seems very clear that even if there were other candidates mentioned, they were very quickly dismissed from the reckoning, because SAF was determined that Moyes would get the job.

They weren't likely to say "we've tried five top quality managers but couldn't get any of them, so we've decided to give Dave a spin".

 

[Foxbatt]

The problem is that young and enthusiastic british coaches who have gone and worked abroad come back and get very small low end clubs. They are bound to struggle there as these clubs do not the quality of players to play the way they want to play. Look at Clements at Swansea, He tries to get them to play football yet the players he has are not capable of playing that way.
Give him a chance at a top club with better players and he probably would be able to play like a mini Bayern.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Not offended, just want ol' Dave to show up his detractors. I miss him being at the club. They were good times.

I had to check you were a United fan, and it turns out you are. Therefore this massive wum is best ignored and a mod should probably just thread ban you.

 

[notcool]

They finished 7th the season before and 4th before that.

They were 15th after 9 or 10 games when he took over, having already beaten Real Madrid and Atletico so not completely shite. He moved them up three places, barely an improvement.

He left them in 16th place when he was sacked after also 9-10 games. The next manager took them to 9th that season and 7th straight after.

As I said, he actually got you to believe that they were relegation fodder and he miraculously saved them.

For sure, but looking at where they were afterwards doesn't tell the whole story. And only moving a team up a few places isn't so bad when a team is in 15th. Confidence matters a lot so it can be hard to turn things when a club is in a bad place. Look at Chelsea in Mourinho's final season. They only finished 10th after their disastrous start and that's with a team of champions. Sociedad should have kicked on the next season but my point was that it doesn't 'say it all.'

I had to check you were a United fan, and it turns out you are. Therefore this massive wum is best ignored and a mod should probably just thread ban you.

Not a wum, that was just a little joke I made. And I probably only said it because the discussion between myself and @stevoc had kinda petered out. Pretty much everything else I said was serious. I dislike the negativity surrounding Moyes (and I wonder how much of that comes from Man Utd fans - we, of course, had to suffer him, plus we are many) and I think people are too quick to be critical of him.

 

[Xaviesta]

Yeah, I'd be inclined to believe the above, but SAF also had this to say (which as I've mentioned before in this thread could have been a face saving exercise of sorts):

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-david-moyes-was-sixth-choice-to-replace-him

Face saving is right. No chance Louis van Gaal was under consideration to replace Ferguson in 2013.

 

[buchansleftleg]

I don't think it's fair to say Moyes did nothing at Everton. Getting them to 4th was an achievement. Not following the club I would be unsure what was behind that success. It could have been the introduction of Steve Peters sports psychologist, or a breakthrough player or a tactical switch.

However given his poor transfer record and lack of tactical flexibility maybe it was down to Steve Peters.

Every organisation can make an incorrect hiring decision, that happens all the time. Professional people just move on, learn the lessons and don't slag off a former employer.
Moyes doesn't seem to learn effectively.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't think it's fair to say Moyes did nothing at Everton. Getting them to 4th was an achievement.

No-one doubts that, but it happened once, 13 years ago @buchansleftleg.

That was a time without the huge bucks of today, there was only three top teams and Big Sam finished 6th with Bolton that same season, just 3 points behind Everton who had 61 points . The following season, Blackburn bloody Rovers accrued 2 more points (63) and finished 6th.

And this is a beauty of a stat, in Moyes' best ever season, that 4th place finish, his side's goal difference was -1

Now that is some food for thought.

 

[Foxbatt]

Big Sam is not a bad coach. His Bolton side could play football and also kick the heck out of Arsenal. Plus Big Sam is never boring. His interviews are funny and he can talk. Moyes is the opposite of all that. He is demoralizing.
There is a funny article by Ian Wright. He says Moyes needs to get his inner Al Pacino out and raise the morale of the players and get them to play positive football and believe that they are better than they are. Ian Wright must be smoking something. Moyes to raise Morale and get the players to play better than they are?

 

[The Purley King]

Moyes' problem is that his consistent moaning about this and that not being good enough starts to become a self fulfilling prophecy. With us it was "we have to aspire to be like....<insert team that we are about to lose to>". With Sunderland it was "the players are shit". With the hammers its going down similar lines. If you tell people they aren't up to it often enough they'll start to believe you.
He is a dour, uninspiring man and there is 0 doubt in my mind that if West Ham keep hold of him he'll get them relegated. Nothing surer.

 

[SteveJ]

There is a funny article by Ian Wright. He says Moyes needs to get his inner Al Pacino out

"Say hello to my little friend."