Moyes is doing a good job at West Ham, as he did at Everton. But, I don't buy the "he was badly treated at United" line. The guys who were badly treated were United's successful back room team, who were an integral part of league title wins and Champions League Final appearances in the preceding seasons. It was Moyes' decision to sack the likes of Phelan, Meulensteen and Steele, and replace them with his mid table back room team from Everton. Moyes handicapped himself from the start, letting all that expertise go, in favour of his cronies.
David Moyes Unemployed | European Champion
- Thread starter Damien
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Yeah it's bullshit. Moyes was handed an opportunity of a lifetime, a chance that no other big club would have given him. All he had to do was steer the ship for a few years and keep United in the top 4 and competitive and then who knows he may well have grown into the job, it's unlikely but who knows.
Some on here are still trying to downplay just how bad we were under Moyes that season and that he was hard done by to get sacked. 2-3 wins out of 19 in the league against the all the teams in the top half of the table, that's abysmal for almost any team never mind the champions. Out of the top 3 for the first time in over 20 years and the first United manager to fail to even qualify for Europe in over 30 years I believe.
He had to go no chairman/board at any big club would have would have kept him in the job after that performance. He got a big chance that many would say he didn't even deserve but fecked it up spectacularly and got sacked, that's football and life.
LSD is a hell of a drug
Not compared at all. The best Scottish managers all have similar backgrounds, and Moyes was groomed by the likes of Jim McLean, Sir Alex and Walter Smith. Hard work, attention to detail and strong team-spirit are the driving principles behind the success. Moyes may not have reached their level of success, but he certainly is the last of that old breed of coaches.
David Moyes compared to Matt Busby, fecking hell. What a first post.
Any manager brings in their own staff, and Rene and Mick hardly covered themselves in glory elsewhere.
People will never let this go, will they? Ferguson made plenty errors of judgment in his time, including Bebe, Kleberson, etc.
He, however, made a lot more right calls and was a genius football manager. Neither of these qualify him to appoint his successor, especially since he left the club in the hands of the Glazers.
How the feck did McClean, SAF or Walter Smith groom Moyes when none of those men ever worked with him?
I reckon one of the mods has set up this account as a wind up. At least I hope that's the case.
Sir Alex advised Moyes throughout his career (he even offered him the assistant manager job when he was at Preston), and Moyes studied under McLean and Smith. In fact, he says himself:
How the feck did McClean, SAF or Walter Smith groom Moyes when none of those men ever worked with him?
I reckon one of the mods has set up this account as a wind up. At least I hope that's the case.
"The biggest mentor to me was Walter Smith. Walter had been my Scottish youth team manager. I always felt that I could phone Walter; as I got older, I would phone Sir Alex."
The Scottish coaches were all friendly and would look out for each other. Its no coincidence that Fergie and McLean coached the New Firm teams, that Smith played under McLean and that Walter was Sir Alex's assistant.
Agree not happy it's West Ham.
I'm sorry but based on what? I could point to any of our subsequent managers, including our current manager, and make that statement based in things they've said and done.
Well many things that I've read over the years about Moyes time at United. But I think one example which sums it up was Ferguson held press conferences in a large room at Carrington where all the journalists assembled every Friday. One of the many changes Moyes made was to hold the press conferences in a much smaller room where all the journalists attending couldn't even fit in. And they had to stand outside and filter in and out to ask their questions. It's not unreasonable to assume the large room with much more journalists than he was used to dealing with overwhelmed him. The club was just too big for him.
There were others, deciding to take the squad on a stroll down the beach oblivious to the fact they would get mobbed. Pulling out and reading a self help book titled ''Good to Great'' on the plane in front of the players on the way home from a particularly bad defeat in Greece.
And that's without even mentioning some of the stuff ex players like Ferdinand have said about his time at United.
And there's a case to be made that Van Gaal and Mourinho at that point in their career's didn't have the right mentality to manage United either for different reasons. With Solskjaer the Jury is still out, but the squad he has built and the atmosphere he has created around the club looks promising.
No other club in the league would hire Ole. On paper this squad is probably better than Liverpool's. I think we are underestimating the current squad due to having a manager that isn't world class. That's a 400+ million squad. Gaal and Jose are past it. Had we hired Pep or Klopp....
Atleast Moyes has some sort of signature. Look at Chelsea now under Tuchel ... a very distinct pattern to their play and stronger chemistry.
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Treated badly? He won the fecking lotto when he got the Utd job and screwed the pooch in epic fashion. Telling CL winning defenders to study videos of Phil Jagielka? Sacking a backroom staff with a history of winning and replacing them with midtable dross, telling supporters of the biggest and most successful club in the country that we should aspire to be like our nouveau riche shitbag cross city enemies and signing Fellaini as our major summer signing? The knobber is lucky he lasted as long as he did.
He won the fecking lotto when he got the Utd job and screwed the pooch in epic fashion. Telling CL winning defenders to study videos of Phil Jagielka? Sacking a backroom staff with a history of winning and replacing them with midtable dross, telling supporters of the biggest and most successful club in the country that we should aspire to be like our nouveau riche shitbag cross city enemies and signing Fellaini as our major summer signing? The knobber is lucky he lasted as long as he did.Delighted to see Moyes doing so well and it's fecking lovely to see him prove so many idiots wrong.
Common sense, and no you can't.
The set piece training session in a public park, which had to be quickly abandoned due to the inevitable attention it got, is the one that always gets me. How could he think taking one of the biggest clubs in the world down to a public park to train amongst joggers and dog walkers would be a good idea? And what was the intention of it? The grass surfaces at just about any park are uneven and a far cry from a PL football pitch, and unsuitable for multi million pound footballers to be running around on. Stuff like that makes it clear he didn't appreciate just how big the club is. (Unless, of course, Rio is fibbing about this. Moyes seems to deny it)
I remember Berbatov saying he didn't appreciate just how big the club was until he stepped off a plane for a pre-season tour, and he said he felt like he was in The Beatles.
I think he's a decent manager, but he definitely underestimated the step-up. Logic would suggest that if he could do it all again he would do it differently, but even he has said that he wouldn't, so all the 'treated badly' stuff is just silly. I can only assume he had a top 4 clause in his contract, given that he was binned the moment it became impossible. I don't think it's a big ask to keep the reigning Champions, and a club that hasn't finished lower than 3rd since 1991, in the Champions League as a minimum.
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Who's he proving wrong by finishing 5-10th as usual? He'll never win a trophy or achieve more than that
When Moyes was at Everton I always thought he got so much out of his players and he had a good eye for a player so I thought he was a good manager and it looks like he is doing the same at the Hammers.
For whatever reason it did not work out for him at our club but With LVG whom was given a huge budget didn’t do much better and look at his CV in comparison to Moyes.
I am sure Moyes is in a happier place now and he can at least say he managed Manchester United.
For whatever reason it did not work out for him at our club but With LVG whom was given a huge budget didn’t do much better and look at his CV in comparison to Moyes.
I am sure Moyes is in a happier place now and he can at least say he managed Manchester United.
I don't rate him highly but he's not as bad as some make out. Said a while back he can replicate what he did at Everton somewhere if given enough time at a similar level of club. Some jobs are a hiding to nothing like Sunderland and or going to Spain.
It's perfectly possible he was always screwed by the job but made terrible decisions as well.
That team was falling to pieces and needed a great summer and some major work. I don't think any of our other post Fergie managers would have done that much better.
He'd have been much better taking over in the kind of situation Ole did. We'll never know.
That team was falling to pieces and needed a great summer and some major work. I don't think any of our other post Fergie managers would have done that much better.
He'd have been much better taking over in the kind of situation Ole did. We'll never know.
Yup, went into this thread expecting exactly what I found. 2 wins against Newcastle and 10-men Leicester, and now we didn't give him any chance and he's proving his haters wrong. And of course, another reason to slate Ole.
2 freaking games. I remember Liverpool and Tottenham were Caf favourites for the league last season when they faced each other in December I think. That was built as an early title decider, before United and City picked up momentum. The former two teams proceeded to fall off a cliff but I distinctly remember people here saying Mourinho will be redeemed there and we made a mistake replacing him with Ole.
The obsession with Tuchel is weird enough (he seems to have replaced Poch as god-emperor on the caf) but don't start with Moyes please. He's a good coach who's overachieving with West Ham. He has always been a good coach, but he was absolutely horrible at United and that's also fine. He has found his level.
2 freaking games. I remember Liverpool and Tottenham were Caf favourites for the league last season when they faced each other in December I think. That was built as an early title decider, before United and City picked up momentum. The former two teams proceeded to fall off a cliff but I distinctly remember people here saying Mourinho will be redeemed there and we made a mistake replacing him with Ole.
The obsession with Tuchel is weird enough (he seems to have replaced Poch as god-emperor on the caf) but don't start with Moyes please. He's a good coach who's overachieving with West Ham. He has always been a good coach, but he was absolutely horrible at United and that's also fine. He has found his level.
That's nonsense of course they would after a decent few years at United.
And yeah Moyes patterns of play are very.. uh distinctive indeed.
I am happy for him but who are the idiots he is proving wrong? What has he achieved of note that suddenly made his doubters "idiots"
Yeah that's another good example actually and that was what in March nearly a year after he took over? So it's not like it was in his first few weeks before he realized you can't do shit like that, he just didn't seem to be able to wrap his head around managing a huge club.
It wasn't a big ask and even if we'd narrowly missed out on the top 4 there could have been a case to give him another go but we were 15 points off Arsenal. 15 points? That's abysmal.
And the idea that if given a 2nd chance at the United job that he would do everything exactly the same knowing it would lead to failure is honestly one of the dumbest things I've heard a football manger say.
Oh please, we've all seen the bollocks written about him in the past. It was nasty stuff perpetuated by a bunch of babies.
This is, frankly, bollocks.
Moyes was told not to replace the backroom team, and the first thing he did was sack them all and bring in his woefully underqualified band of idiots from Everton.
He might have been able to phone Fergie for advice but that doesn't mean he was "groomed" for the job. By all accounts he was some way down the list of preferred candidates. Allardyce always had a good relationship with Fergie, do you consider that he was groomed for the position too?
I'm not calling all of his doubters idiots, I'm one of them.
You could say one job was a hiding to nothing where a manager could have done no better and while it's a stretch 2 is certainly possible but 3 in a row is just a bit too coincidental for me. Moyes get's an easy ride for the poor jobs he did at Sociedad and Sunderland.
That entire post is bollocks, I'm surprised anyone took it seriously. Moyes himself said he was surprised when SAF rung him up and offered him the job. These WUMs are getting more and more elaborate.
Moyes wasn't even his first choice. It's well documented that he offered Pep the job months before announcing his retirement. Ancelotti said in his book that he was also offered it. There's no denying SAF loved the idea of a fellow Scotsman and friend succeeding him but he definitely had his doubts over Moyes.
Moyes is a good manager. You put him at a club like Everton or West Ham and he'll do well. He couldn't make the step up to a club of United's size though.
Moyes is a good manager. You put him at a club like Everton or West Ham and he'll do well. He couldn't make the step up to a club of United's size though.
Think that was Fergie on damage control after the Moyes appointment went tits up. It's in his book and he's said since that he didn't know he was even retiring at the time he met Pep. He could have been sounding him out for the future but according to his own accounts and Guardiola's he didn't offer him the United job.
I agree with most of it, but his issues weren't time related.
He came in and changed a lot of things that didn't need changing. This affected a few players here and there.
If you couple the above with the awful football he was playing, the answer becomes very obvious.
I think it's very obvious that any manager would have gotten to the bottom of it if given 3-4-5-6 seasons, as Ole is currently doing.
This. Moyes was absolutely first choice for the job. Ferguson came in for lots of stick post-retirement in relation to the state of the club (e.g ‘crumbling’ academy/ ‘ageing’ first team/old fashioned recruitment systems) and he would have hated every single bit of it. He knows how to tell a lie or two.
On Moyes, he is doing a good job at West Ham. It’s a difficult club to settle down. I thought he was finished at this level but he’s been able to put a winning team together.
I am genuinely amazed by this, I don't think it's a wind up
He's an excellent manager for a club like Everton or West Ham but the United job was simply too big for him. There's no shame in that and I'm happy to see him doing well again.
You're right regarding Guardiola never being offered the job, but I definitely read something a while back (as in around Moyes getting sacked) that I feel was also backed up by some other sources, that basically said the club had been keeping a shortlist of potential successors for a number of years and were updating it at intervals as seasons passed. We've had such managerial turmoil since that my attempts to find it again have failed as there are a ton of articles about us replacing our manager even from this summer.
At the time Fergie announced his retirement, Guardiola and Ancelotti were definitely above Moyes on the shortlist and I'm fairly sure Mourinho and Klopp were too. There were maybe even a couple of other managers ahead of him. Obviously Guardiola had pledged his future to Bayern, Ancelotti to Madrid, Mourinho was on the verge of returning to Chelsea, and Klopp didn't want to leave Dortmund at that time.
You have to take his time at Everton Preston and now West Ham into account. He can build teams that do well if given enough time and requires suitability, he's not a quick fix guy or going to quickly command respect from players in Spain. Sorry Sociedad was never going to work out in the short term and it was well said at the time Sunderland were going to crash out of the PL, there's not many who could've rescued that situation and would need a totally different character to have a chance, it was a hiding to nothing both times for Moyes.
Clearly not suitable for United and crumbled, the job and expectations are too big. His Everton record was good overall but it's not what United need, he had no away wins at big clubs, no trophies, just a dogged PL team in the top half or top quarter.
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He didn't offer him it formally but he sounded him out. Pep had already accepted the Bayern job anyway. Ancelotti and Fergie are close friends I doubt Ancelotti would lie about being offered it.
This must be the fastest like in history of CAF