Olecurls99
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15 in 24 followed 16 in 6 equals 31 in 30In all competitions this season it’s 31 goals in 30 games
Great form
15 in 24 followed 16 in 6 equals 31 in 30In all competitions this season it’s 31 goals in 30 games
So Allison is like De Gea when United were struggling? Do you think he’ll be their player of the season?
15 in 24 followed 16 in 6 equals 31 in 30
Great form
Our last 24 games in all competitions, Dave has conceded 15 goals.This isn’t even correct even though you have done some amazing manipulation of stats
Right and De Gea has been a vital cog in our machine and a crucial part of our current form.
And despite Allison being better at distribution it has a negligible, miniscule effect on a teams attacking output, as shown with Liverpool this season.
Our last 24 games in all competitions, Dave has conceded 15 goals.
What exactly have I manipulated?
You forgot games he missed
Which one was that then? The first goal at Villa that he inexplicably tried to stop with his feet? The second at Villa which he positioned himself way too far over for giving Digne a pretty much open goal to aim at? The one at Fulham that most goalkeepers dive on as the ball goes across? The one against Everton that he may as well have scored for them? The free kick at Palace that came directly from him aimlessly hoofing the ball back into their possession instead of playing the simply 10 yard pass to an unmarked Martinez? The first at Arsenal that came from a cross most decent goalkeepers are cutting out? The second at Arsenal that came from miles out? Just wondering which one of those you think he had a hand in.I'd like to think Dave has something to do with the good defensive performance of the team. He has saved shots etc. 99% of what a keeper does for me is keep the ball out. 15 conceded in 24 games. 1 of which was his fault.
The one he let in at his near post. 15 conceded in 24 ain't bad eh?Which one was that then? The first goal at Villa that he inexplicably tried to stop with his feet? The second at Villa which he positioned himself way too far over for giving Digne a pretty much open goal to aim at? The one at Fulham that most goalkeepers dive on as the ball goes across? The one against Everton that he may as well have scored for them? The free kick at Palace that came directly from him aimlessly hoofing the ball back into their possession instead of playing the simply 10 yard pass to an unmarked Martinez? The first at Arsenal that came from a cross most decent goalkeepers are cutting out? The second at Arsenal that came from miles out? Just wondering which one of those you think he had a hand in.
Football is a team game and on that note, isn't De Gea doing well as part of a team that have conceded 15 in the last 24 matches?Dear lord man, you are completely cherry picking these things and ignoring anything else. Of course he isn't going to be contributing as much offensively to Liverpool in a season where they are struggling. Thats like blaming a winger for not being as effective one season because their striker has gone to pot despite him still delivering just as many crosses into exactly the same areas. Thats about as stupid as ranking keepers by the number of saves they make or the number of clean sheets they keep as an absolute measure of value.
Football is a team game. A goalkeeper can only influence so much when his teammates are underperforming. When Liverpool were playing well, Allison was vital to that. Not for his shot stopping but for everything else. Christ, a keeper can only make half the saves they do make when the striker gives them a chance.
Why do you think EtH tried to get DDG playing out from the back from almost day one when he arrived when its so clearly completely irrelevant to you value as a keeper to your team? Why do you think every top manager values a keeper who can pass, is calm under pressure when playing around the back and who can accurately hit long passes up the pitch? Either all the top managers in the world are idiots and you are right or...
I went back and looked at those goals and all I can say is that you must have an agenda.Which one was that then? The first goal at Villa that he inexplicably tried to stop with his feet? The second at Villa which he positioned himself way too far over for giving Digne a pretty much open goal to aim at? The one at Fulham that most goalkeepers dive on as the ball goes across? The one against Everton that he may as well have scored for them? The free kick at Palace that came directly from him aimlessly hoofing the ball back into their possession instead of playing the simply 10 yard pass to an unmarked Martinez? The first at Arsenal that came from a cross most decent goalkeepers are cutting out? The second at Arsenal that came from miles out? Just wondering which one of those you think he had a hand in.
He didn't even play in 4 of them. Three of the others were against low quality cup opposition. That brings it back to 15 goals in 17 games against remotely decent opposition which hardly sounds so impressive.The one he let in at his near post. 15 conceded in 24 ain't bad eh?
Are you trying to suggest it's down to the goalkeeper? So last season when we conceded 50 odd despite De Gea supposedly having a brilliant season, that was down to the defenders not being good enough, but this season, after we've signed a new centre back, kept Varane fit and signed the best holding midfielder in the world, it's down to De Gea (but only the part of the season we've started defending better and not the season as a whole because we can conveniently discount lots of goals during the early part of the season De Gea was resposible for)?The one he let in at his near post. 15 conceded in 24 ain't bad eh?
No agenda I just expect a "world class" goalkeeper to be world class. I've looked after goalkeepers varying in age from 12 to 35 over the past 10 years or so and those are all goals I'd be asking questions of my players at any age/level for so I don't see why that standard shouldn't apply to De Gea.I went back and looked at those goals and all I can say is that you must have an agenda.
He's won us places as well. People make mistakes.Maybe it’s one of the reasons we haven’t been good all these years and all these managers. How he’s gotten away with it is so mind boggling to me despite his constant huge errors in big games he’s still treated like a God on here and the club keep pandering to him. He’s cost us trophies, cost us places in the UCL, and right now he could be costing us from challenging for the title
Are you trying to suggest it's down to the goalkeeper? So last season when we conceded 50 odd despite De Gea supposedly having a brilliant season, that was down to the defenders not being good enough, but this season, after we've signed a new centre back, kept Varane fit and signed the best holding midfielder in the world, it's down to De Gea (but only the part of the season we've started defending better and not the season as a whole because we can conveniently discount lots of goals during the early part of the season De Gea was resposible for)?
Also I've no idea where your stats are from because in De Gea's last 24 games, he's conceded 23 goals.
No agenda I just expect a "world class" goalkeeper to be world class. I've looked after goalkeepers varying in age from 12 to 35 over the past 10 years or so and those are all goals I'd be asking questions of my players at any age/level for so I don't see why that standard shouldn't apply to De Gea.
I do think De Gea should get a lot of credit for the fact we've conceded 15 goals in the past 24 games, yes.Are you trying to suggest it's down to the goalkeeper? So last season when we conceded 50 odd despite De Gea supposedly having a brilliant season, that was down to the defenders not being good enough, but this season, after we've signed a new centre back, kept Varane fit and signed the best holding midfielder in the world, it's down to De Gea (but only the part of the season we've started defending better and not the season as a whole because we can conveniently discount lots of goals during the early part of the season De Gea was resposible for)?
Also I've no idea where your stats are from because in De Gea's last 24 games, he's conceded 23 goals.
No agenda I just expect a "world class" goalkeeper to be world class. I've looked after goalkeepers varying in age from 12 to 35 over the past 10 years or so and those are all goals I'd be asking questions of my players at any age/level for so I don't see why that standard shouldn't apply to De Gea.
Why are you giving De Gea credit for games he hasn't played in? You're the one who invented looking at 24 games as some kind of metric to suit your point of view; the reality is that in De Gea's last 24 games we've conceded 23 goals.I do think De Gea should get a lot of credit for the fact we've conceded 15 goals in the past 24 games, yes.
I think the City and Ominia games were a turning point for the whole team, so I went from there. 15 in 24 since then is really impressive and De Gea has been a big partWhy are you giving De Gea credit for games he hasn't played in? You're the one who invented looking at 24 games as some kind of metric to suit your point of view; the reality is that in De Gea's last 24 games we've conceded 23 goals.
Agreed, I think we’d concede less if we had another keeperI think the City and Ominia games were a turning point for the whole team, so I went from there. 15 in 24 since then is really impressive and De Gea has been a big part
Why were they a turning point? Had we not won 4 league games on the bounce, inc Liverpool and Arsenal, before City?I think the City and Ominia games were a turning point for the whole team, so I went from there. 15 in 24 since then is really impressive and De Gea has been a big part
Nope I think it's a stat that shows how far the team have come defensively since that period.Why were they a turning point? Had we not won 4 league games on the bounce, inc Liverpool and Arsenal, before City?
We've conceded 6 in De Gea's last 7 games, but I thought you said we'd turned a corner? Can't you see how ridiculous the one stat you're hanging your hat on is?
It's 23 in De Gea's last 24 games. The 15 in 24 is United's last 24 games, including games De Gea didn't play in.So what is it: 15 in 24 or 23 in 24? Someone clear this up.
Can someone look at expected goals conceded vs goals conceded? More useful than save percentages maybe.
Which part melted your brain?The past few pages have melted my brain, basically been:
"Well thought out points"
"15 in 24 doe"
United have conceded 15 in the past 24 gamesSo what is it: 15 in 24 or 23 in 24? Someone clear this up.
Can someone look at expected goals conceded vs goals conceded? More useful than save percentages maybe.
I’m really not that bothered.I think it's relevant. Shoot me
He’s definitely much closer to the worst than he is to the best"DDG: Arguably the worst keeper in the PL".
An actual claim posted on the caf a few weeks ago.
He’s definitely much closer to the worst than he is to the best
A matter of opinion of course and opinions make the caf a great forum. But I don't agree.
The difficulty is deciding which sample of form to draw conclusions from. We can do with this season (so far) only, which is probably most reasonable; or we can go with the last four seasons (not too unreasonable) or the last decade (probably unreasonable).
I just ran a google search on top keepers in the PL and Kepa turns up at the top. I'm not persuaded. Is he on amazing form of late? Sure, but form of late isn't a serious way to look at the overall quality of a keeper. Leno also ranks higher than De Gea, but I'm not having that either. Fabianski and Pickford also turn up with high marks on various lists, but no serious observer would replace with De Gea either Fabiasnki or Pickford. Or Leno. Kepa, perhaps.
I'm not going to go through all the keepers in the PL right now, but only a few clearly stand out in quality over the last few seasons (I'm not going to get sucked into a debate over form over the last 2-3 matches) and they are:
Alisson
Ederson
I'm actually not a huge fan of Ederson, but out of respect for his trophies (dubious as they may be) I'll rank him as at least an equal to De Gea, Ederson clearly being superior in distribution and De Gea being clearly superior as a shot stopper.
Pope has been outstanding this season and anyone who makes the case for swapping out De Gea for Pope has a fair case. Maybe even a compelling case.
Player Comparison: Nick Pope vs. David de Gea vs. Alisson vs. Ederson vs. Diogo Costa vs. Aaron Ramsdale | FBref.com
But if you look at their stats, De Gea comes out pretty decently. De Gea suffers from the goals we shipped in early in the season -- 2 to Brighton, 4 to Brentford and 6 to City -- all of which De Gea undeniably has to take some share of accountability for as well as everyone else in the starting XI. We were a sinking ship early in ETH's tenure, no question about it, but we've righted the ship and it's mostly one clean sheet after another (often thanks to incredible saves as well as solid back line defending and the magisterial work of Casemiro), marred only by the sporadic one goal we concede, though three to Arsenal, the PL leader at the moment (we may just catch them in the end), a few weeks ago. Meanwhile, Pope and Newcastle in general have been magnificent this season. Alisson and Ederson...not so magnificent this season. Ramsdale has had a solid season, but I trust no one here would swap out De Gea for Ramsdale. Or Lloris, or even Martinez of Villa.
De Gea easily comes out in the top 10 of the PL, although it's fine margins between the rest after Pope on this season's form,
My worry is the big moments especially in cup games that we've seen him make howlers or mistakes with lack of concentrationhttps://www.skysports.com/football/manchester-city-vs-manchester-united/report/257267
‘De Gea's frailties under the high ball are well known by now. When David Silva curled over the second of successive corners, a stronger, more confident goalkeeper might have come to punch. Instead, he left it to his defenders.’
‘United might have found themselves two down when De Gea came for a corner without getting near it’
over TEN years ago and we’re still facing the same issues. That game cost us the title, so many times over the years he’s cost us in crucial moments - 2 that spring to mind instantly was the Chelsea game at home under Ole and Upton Park last game both in different seasons and the reason we missed out on UCL football. Genuinely can’t wait till he leave the club
You’d be crazy to not swap Ramsdale for De Gea. Ramsdale offers everything De Gea does, but his passing is a million times better and he’s so much more comfortable on the ball. Not too sure about his cross claiming but I’m certain he doesn’t frequently punch the ball instead of catching and doesn’t also feel glued to his goal line. But I guess Ramsdale doesn’t do enough camera saves, he doesn’t use his reverse arms to do saves so it doesn’t look half as good
I went back and looked at those goals and all I can say is that you must have an agenda.