[JB7]

Sa just had a crap season and is being pushed by Bentley, Somner is first choice now because Neuer got a serious injury, he’s absolutely back up next season, you even have Nantes GK in there, Milan got Maignan on a shrewd deal but if he moves again this summer it will be a lot more than €13m.

None of it is really relevant or comparable to the situation De Gea will find himself in if he’s a free agent, we will never find out anyway because he’s resigning but without a transfer fee, at £200k a week he’s a viable option for a club that doesn’t mind the hoofing and only want to stay up.


That’s not a comparison for us, I specifically said non top 6 clubs, we should be aiming higher but for a midtable or relegation fighting club, taking a chance on the GK position can land you in the shit quickly, as every point matters.

Sa isn't being pushed by Bentley, they gave him some gametime once they secured safety but he is the undisputed number 1 there and he didn't have a great season no, but nobody at Wolves did, however in a more functional team in his first season he was outstanding. Sommer won't be there as a back-up next season, he'll go elsewhere to be number one, possibly to Old Trafford given we've been linked in the past, who knows. What's wrong with having Nantes goalkeeper in there exactly? He's an example of a goalkeeper that moved clubs for buttons that would walk into our team with his eyes closed.
It's all relevant given that the comment I was directly responding to from you was "Every half decent Tom, Dick and Harry keeper nowadays is going for £20m+" which is quite clearly nonsense.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It's all relevant given that the comment I was directly responding to from you was "Every half decent Tom, Dick and Harry keeper nowadays is going for £20m+" which is quite clearly nonsense.

And I already clarified that I meant PL clubs, who operates in a different financial environment to other leagues. And it’s patently not nonsense in that context, but you do you.

 

[JB7]

And I already clarified that I meant PL clubs, who operates in a different financial environment to other leagues. And it’s patently not nonsense in that context, but you do you.

You gave 3 examples, all PL to PL signings; as I said, PL clubs don't generally look far enough, so it's no coincidence that two young English goalkeepers went for inflated fees. But even within the PL there are generally deals to be had. How much did Newcastle pay for Pope? Or Brentford for Raya? Or heck even Fulham for Leno given the season he's just had? Turning away from the PL, do you think clubs with the limited resources of Lille/Stuttgart would have suddenly been in a position to demand £25m instead of the already agreed £12/13m had a PL side gone in for Maignan/Kobel? Do you think Bayern are going to be demanding £20m+ for Sommer or Neuer depending on which one they sell in the summer? I have no issue with spending big on a goalkeeper but the reality is you don't need to spend big to sign a considerably better goalkeeper, better suited to our style of play, than our current #1. So yeah, it is utter nonsense in pretty much every context.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

You gave 3 examples, all PL to PL signings; as I said, PL clubs don't generally look far enough, so it's no coincidence that two young English goalkeepers went for inflated fees. But even within the PL there are generally deals to be had. How much did Newcastle pay for Pope? Or Brentford for Raya? Or heck even Fulham for Leno given the season he's just had? Turning away from the PL, do you think clubs with the limited resources of Lille/Stuttgart would have suddenly been in a position to demand £25m instead of the already agreed £12/13m had a PL side gone in for Maignan/Kobel? Do you think Bayern are going to be demanding £20m+ for Sommer or Neuer depending on which one they sell in the summer? I have no issue with spending big on a goalkeeper but the reality is you don't need to spend big to sign a considerably better goalkeeper, better suited to our style of play, than our current #1. So yeah, it is utter nonsense in pretty much every context.

I honestly don’t know why you keep bringing us into this when the original question had to do with no one wanting De Gea at £200k a week on a free transfer, I listed 4 transfers, actually, and beyond that you also had Kepa on 70m, Mendy on 27m, ditto Allison/Ederson. It’s asinine to suggest that De Gea can’t find a club on a net expenditure of about £30m over 4 years when PL clubs are spending more than ever like drunken sailors.

But from your many, many posts in any topic concerning De Gea, it’s clear that you think he’s bottom of the barrel keeper, so I don’t expect any objectivity here. A 31 year old goalkeeper who won the Golden glove twice, one just this season, and was first choice at United for a decade wouldn’t be sniffed at by even a bottom half PL team, right.

 

[JB7]

I honestly don’t know why you keep bringing us into this when the original question had to do with no one wanting De Gea at £200k a week on a free transfer, I listed 4 transfers, actually, and beyond that you also had Kepa on 70m, Mendy on 27m, ditto Allison/Ederson. It’s asinine to suggest that De Gea can’t find a club on a net expenditure of about £30m over 4 years when PL clubs are spending more than ever like drunken sailors.

But from your many, many posts in any topic concerning De Gea, it’s clear that you think he’s bottom of the barrel keeper, so I don’t expect any objectivity here. A 31 year old goalkeeper who won the Golden glove twice, one just this season, and was first choice at United for a decade wouldn’t be sniffed at by even a bottom half PL team, right.

To be fair I was only really making the point that Every half decent Tom, Dick and Harry keeper is not going for £20m. Because they aren't.

But regarding your De Gea's plenty of options for £200k a week comment, the reason there aren't likely to be any takers at that price (and none have even been rumoured as I said), is because generally speaking he's not good enough for a top club anymore and the clubs you have suggested he would be good enough for are not going to commit that level of salary to him.

It's nothing to do with anyone thinking of him as a "bottom of the barrel keeper", your words not mine to be clear, it's just being realistic. When I look around the biggest European clubs who may well take De Gea if he was available for nothing, I look to Juventus or Roma, if he wanted to go to Spain I think the most likely club would be Villareal. I don't see any realistic takers in France or Germany. Now those are three big clubs, but would they commit £200k (230k euros) to De Gea? I think Juventus might, however they are already paying roughly that much to Szczesny so would need to get him off the books. Roma surely wouldn't, given their current top earner Dybala is on just under 100k euro less than that (circa 135k euros), so it would be massively outside of their wage structure. Villareal likewise, their top earner currently is on less than 80k euros per week, so they aren't going to give out 230k euros a week to a goalkeeper.

You said the PL operates on a different financial level and that there would no shortage of interest from bottom half teams with no transfer fee to pay and £200k a week wages. Which ones exactly? I'll discount Chelsea and for obvious reasons but from 17th up you've got Everton, their top earner is their current captain and goalkeeper on £125k, Forest are just about the only maybe given their two top earners currently are their two loaned in goalkeepers but even added together their contributions are less than £200k a week, Bournemouth top earner £55k, West Ham top earner £150k but only 4 players over £100k and one of them a goalkeeper, Wolves top earner £100k, Palace top earner £130k, Fulham top earner £90k, Brentford top earner £55k. Which of those clubs would smash their wage structure to give De Gea £200k a week?

 

[lex talionis]

Let's review the keepers of the top 10 squads (apart from United) in the PL, listed by table order:

Ederson. No complaints about rating Ederson above De Gea.
Ramsdale. We would be daft out our of minds to swap Ramsdale for De Gea.
Pope. No objections to Pope > De Gea.
Alission. Best keeper in the world IMHO.
Steele. No chance whatsoever that Steele > De Gea.
Martinez. Martinez has his fans and I don't begrudge them that, but Martinez is at best barely > De Gea.
Llloris. Forster
Raya. I like Raya a lot, but he's not in De Gea's league...but not that far off either. A puntworthy option.
Leno. Leno has had a solid season with Fulham, but De Gea has never been as consistently atrocious as Leno was for Arsenal, which is why they turned to Ramsdale.

It won't be that easy finding a replacement for De Gea, unless we either spend a massive sum for Costa or go in for an unproven but highly rated young keeper, of which there are many. But are we really going to roll the dice on a young keeper???

If we have a Qatari fortune to spend on a proper 9, an 8, a backup 6, a RB and have gobs left over, let's go ahead and spend 80m on Costa. Problem solved!

 

[L1nk]

 

[Adnan]

Where are you getting 200k per week figure .
If 200 k was on table from United it would have been signed and sealed long time back from De Gea camp I don't think he is deluded enough to believe he can do better elsewhere .

The only think I've seen from a reputable source regarding the new contract is from Mike McGrath in his Telegraph piece from 5 days ago, where he said the contract on offer is only for 2 years. But it required ten Hag's approval.

We then heard from both The Times and Daily Mail who are reporting it requires sign off from others within the hierarchy, and to this day we have no clarity. And below is the latest news.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The only think I've seen from a reputable source regarding the new contract is from Mike McGrath in his Telegraph piece from 5 days ago, where he said the contract on offer is only for 2 years. But it required ten Hag's approval.

We then heard from both The Times and Daily Mail who are reporting it requires sign off from others within the hierarchy, and to this day we have no clarity. And below is the latest news.

If true, 2 years eases my mind a bit. Still think it's a waste of money (relative to what other backup keepers are paid) and ideally we release him altogether, but a relatively short contract as backup keeper wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[gajender]

The only think I've seen from a reputable source regarding the new contract is from Mike McGrath in his Telegraph piece from 5 days ago, where he said the contract on offer is only for 2 years. But it required ten Hag's approval.

We then heard from both The Times and Daily Mail who are reporting it requires sign off from others within the hierarchy, and to this day we have no clarity. And below is the latest news.

I believe we are offering him really low wages relative to his Current one without any assurance of being No 1 going forward and I still think he would leave .

 

[Alemar]

I believe we are offering him really low wages relative to his Current one without any assurance of being No 1 going forward and I still think he would leave .

Maybe he leaves on a high, after saving 3 penalties in the penalty shoot out

 

[gajender]

Maybe he leaves on a high, after saving 3 penalties in the penalty shoot out

That would be great Send Off for De Gea end of an Era on High for Both player and the Club if he helps us win FA Cup .

 

[giggs-beckham]

The quotes from ETH regarding control from the back are encouraging. Don't know why he'd entertain an unsuitable backup in De Gea taking up valuable resources

 

[Smores]

I believe we are offering him really low wages relative to his Current one without any assurance of being No 1 going forward and I still think he would leave .

No one gets assurances or is guaranteed to be a starter. The media have spun people a line on that which is fairly meaningless.

If he signs the contract we'll bring in competition or potentially give Kovar/Henderson time. If not we'll go big and get someone like Costa.

There's no way we're making a major signing and having De Gea as backup, it's fanciful.

 

[gajender]

No one gets assurances or is guaranteed to be a starter. The media have spun people a line on that which is fairly meaningless.

If he signs the contract we'll bring in competition or potentially give Kovar/Henderson time. If not we'll go big and get someone like Costa.

There's no way we're making a major signing and having De Gea as backup, it's fanciful.

I still think he is leaving so yeah I agree we will make big signing to replace him .

 

[Gupz]

I don't think replacing De Gea should be priority. Surely he made some mistakes that costs us games, but in the end it is also the lack of goal scoring ability that don't win us games. Top 4 least conceded goals, most clean sheets and finished Top 3 overall, but still only have a goal difference of +14 is one big joke.

I'm sure Alison and Ederson also made some few horrible mistakes, but since they do have a goal scoring players and got covered up, those mistakes are all forgotten and forgiven.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

This is brilliant. I was getting worried DDG was his blind spot. There’s no way he should be our number 1 next season. Far too inconsistent and not up to the standard we need to go for the major trophies in 23/24.

 

[Based Adnan]

Romano saying Butland is leaving and we'll sign a cup goalkeeper to give De Gea competition



Looks like he'll be starting off as number 1 next season...

 

[quadrant]

Manchester United: From unorthodox to unreliable – what has happened to David de Gea?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65735832

A decent & fairly in-depth article on the BBC highlighting his struggles this season, including issues with his shot-stopping. Thought it was a good read.

 

[mctrials23]

The idea of having another goalkeeper to provide competition for your number one never really makes sense to me. How many clubs have done this and replaced their number one as a result. There is one keeper on the pitch and they are very rarely injured. The only way you can really A/B test keepers is by giving them a good run in the team. You cannot give a keeper 10 games and then drop them unless they are drastically underperforming which I don't think DDG is. Hes just not quite good enough in too many areas. You have to just replace him.

 

[Traub]

The idea of having another goalkeeper to provide competition for your number one never really makes sense to me. How many clubs have done this and replaced their number one as a result. There is one keeper on the pitch and they are very rarely injured. The only way you can really A/B test keepers is by giving them a good run in the team. You cannot give a keeper 10 games and then drop them unless they are drastically underperforming which I don't think DDG is. Hes just not quite good enough in too many areas. You have to just replace him.

I think they're just trying to not embarrass DDG to be honest. DDG isn't terrible - yes he isn't good enough to start for us, but as a second keeper he is good enough (perhaps Carlo Cudicini levels back in the Chelsea days).

 

[NLunited]

Not by a few miles. DDG might have a weakness in ball playing, but it's not as terrible as people make it out to be, the bigger problem is that it is exacerbated when we play ball playing liabilities like Maguire, AWB, McT and Fred. If the rest of the team can flow the ball without issue, you won't even notice that DDG is bad at this.

But when our midfielders hide or lose the ball with minimum press, and our defenders just pass the ball to DDG 20 times per minute, it's a huge problem.

Yup. Does not mean we can‘t upgrade DeGea, but it will cost us big money.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Good piece about our Dave by a former England keeper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65735832

 

[lex talionis]

Good piece about our Dave by a former England keeper

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65735832

A very fair piece, but one which still overstates his weaknesses and underestimates the enormous challenges any new keeper we might bring in would immediately face.

Best to keep it brief, so I'll try to do so. While it is true that De Gea has made mistakes this season, the implication is that other keepers don't make mistakes. I'm not going to dig up YouTube videos here to prove the point, but I can assure everyone here that a keeper who does not make mistakes does not exist. (It's not hard to find videos of Peter Schmeichel making mistakes that De Gea not make -- as well as, of course, audacious goalkeeping that we'll never see from De Gea.) Alission and Ederson make mistakes, but there's no doubt that they are better keepers.

But unless we're prepared to spend 70-80m we're just not going to bring in a substantially better keeper than David De Gea. A slightly better keeper can be had for 40-50m but before we jump on the bandwagon to spend 40-50m for a slightly better keeper, keep in mind that we very likely will have to work within a budget even if the Qataris buy the club. What budget I have no idea but it's unlikely that we'll have 300m to spend even after we cash in on McTominay. (We all know Maguire is going to leave with us getting virtually nothing for him, right?) And even if we do bring in a slightly better keeper we would be wise to buckle up for the inevitable nervy start to this new keeper's United career. Say it's Raya...the first time he makes a mistake he will be peltered by the same crowd who pelters De Gea when he makes a mistake. De Gea grew into the colossus he became (before he become the allegedly shite keeper that he is now), but our record with respect to new keepers performing for us under the hot lights of Old Trafford is not that great. Massimo Taibi, Fabien Barthez, Roy Carroll, Tim Howard and God knows who else I'm forgetting pretty much all shit their pants at OT. I thought Ben Foster was pretty decent for us but in truth he was nowhere near the commanding height a Manchester United goalkeeper needs to be at.

What I'm saying is that it's fair game to flog De Gea, but if we're going to have a serious conversation about what to do about De Gea -- and the age of 32 is nowhere the near the age when a keeper goes into collapse -- we need to acknowledge the weaknesses of alternatives who would succeed. The only realistic name that represents the substantial upgrade we're seeking is Diogo Costa, who ticks every single conceivable box and for me would easily be worth the 70-80m it would take to bring him in. Otherwise, if we're still talking about the likes of Raya, who's a solid keeper without question, we might as well keep De Gea.

 

[sifi36]

A very fair piece, but one which still overstates his weaknesses and underestimates the enormous challenges any new keeper we might bring in would immediately face.

Best to keep it brief, so I'll try to do so. While it is true that De Gea has made mistakes this season, the implication is that other keepers don't make mistakes. I'm not going to dig up YouTube videos here to prove the point, but I can assure everyone here that a keeper who does not make mistakes does not exist. (It's not hard to find videos of Peter Schmeichel making mistakes that De Gea not make -- as well as, of course, audacious goalkeeping that we'll never see from De Gea.) Alission and Ederson make mistakes, but there's no doubt that they are better keepers.

But unless we're prepared to spend 70-80m we're just not going to bring in a substantially better keeper than David De Gea. A slightly better keeper can be had for 40-50m but before we jump on the bandwagon to spend 40-50m for a slightly better keeper, keep in mind that we very likely will have to work within a budget even if the Qataris buy the club. What budget I have no idea but it's unlikely that we'll have 300m to spend even after we cash in on McTominay. (We all know Maguire is going to leave with us getting virtually nothing for him, right?) And even if we do bring in a slightly better keeper we would be wise to buckle up for the inevitable nervy start to this new keeper's United career. Say it's Raya...the first time he makes a mistake he will be peltered by the same crowd who pelters De Gea when he makes a mistake. De Gea grew into the colossus he became (before he become the allegedly shite keeper that he is now), but our record with respect to new keepers performing for us under the hot lights of Old Trafford is not that great. Massimo Taibi, Fabien Barthez, Roy Carroll, Tim Howard and God knows who else I'm forgetting pretty much all shit their pants at OT. I thought Ben Foster was pretty decent for us but in truth he was nowhere near the commanding height a Manchester United goalkeeper needs to be at.

What I'm saying is that it's fair game to flog De Gea, but if we're going to have a serious conversation about what to do about De Gea -- and the age of 32 is nowhere the near the age when a keeper goes into collapse -- we need to acknowledge the weaknesses of alternatives who would succeed. The only realistic name that represents the substantial upgrade we're seeking is Diogo Costa, who ticks every single conceivable box and for me would easily be worth the 70-80m it would take to bring him in. Otherwise, if we're still talking about the likes of Raya, who's a solid keeper without question, we might as well keep De Gea.

De Gea already can’t handle the pressure. He tops the league for errors leading to a goal. He’s failed us in many high pressure games this season and in previous ones.

A hypothetical “not good enough” keeper might make errors (De Gea does that anyway) but there are stack loads who might do so without also being terrified of making a high claim or leaving their line to sweep, let alone avoid punting the ball away every time there’s an opposition player in the same postcode.

 

[lex talionis]

De Gea already can’t handle the pressure. He tops the league for errors leading to a goal. He’s failed us in many high pressure games this season and in previous ones.

A hypothetical “not good enough” keeper might make errors (De Gea does that anyway) but there are stack loads who might do so without also being terrified of making a high claim or leaving their line to sweep, let alone avoid punting the ball away every time there’s an opposition player in the same postcode.

This link: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal indicates that Lloris leads the PL with 4 errors that led to a goal. De Gea ranks fourth with 2 errors that led a goal, but it's important to note that he is tied for fourth with 11 other players -- including Mendy, Pickford, Ramsdale and Sa -- for fourth with 2 errors that led to a goal.

Those 2 errors are still a stinging indictment against De Gea since what we all demand is perfection or at least near perfection. No one will deny that De Gea is not a perfect keeper. But if that's what we demand, it's going to be pretty hard to find the perfect or near-perfect keeper.

If we've decided we're going to go galactico then let's go for it. But if we're going to take a punt on a promising but unproven keeper -- unproven under the hot lights of the one of biggest clubs on the planet -- then we better buckle up for the inevitable wobbles that such a keeper will deliver for us. All we have to do is look at United's own history to see how most new keepers who were thought to be the next Schmeichel have actually fared.

 

[quadrant]

A very fair piece, but one which still overstates his weaknesses and underestimates the enormous challenges any new keeper we might bring in would immediately face.

Best to keep it brief, so I'll try to do so. While it is true that De Gea has made mistakes this season, the implication is that other keepers don't make mistakes. I'm not going to dig up YouTube videos here to prove the point, but I can assure everyone here that a keeper who does not make mistakes does not exist. (It's not hard to find videos of Peter Schmeichel making mistakes that De Gea not make -- as well as, of course, audacious goalkeeping that we'll never see from De Gea.) Alission and Ederson make mistakes, but there's no doubt that they are better keepers.

But unless we're prepared to spend 70-80m we're just not going to bring in a substantially better keeper than David De Gea. A slightly better keeper can be had for 40-50m but before we jump on the bandwagon to spend 40-50m for a slightly better keeper, keep in mind that we very likely will have to work within a budget even if the Qataris buy the club. What budget I have no idea but it's unlikely that we'll have 300m to spend even after we cash in on McTominay. (We all know Maguire is going to leave with us getting virtually nothing for him, right?) And even if we do bring in a slightly better keeper we would be wise to buckle up for the inevitable nervy start to this new keeper's United career. Say it's Raya...the first time he makes a mistake he will be peltered by the same crowd who pelters De Gea when he makes a mistake. De Gea grew into the colossus he became (before he become the allegedly shite keeper that he is now), but our record with respect to new keepers performing for us under the hot lights of Old Trafford is not that great. Massimo Taibi, Fabien Barthez, Roy Carroll, Tim Howard and God knows who else I'm forgetting pretty much all shit their pants at OT. I thought Ben Foster was pretty decent for us but in truth he was nowhere near the commanding height a Manchester United goalkeeper needs to be at.

What I'm saying is that it's fair game to flog De Gea, but if we're going to have a serious conversation about what to do about De Gea -- and the age of 32 is nowhere the near the age when a keeper goes into collapse -- we need to acknowledge the weaknesses of alternatives who would succeed. The only realistic name that represents the substantial upgrade we're seeking is Diogo Costa, who ticks every single conceivable box and for me would easily be worth the 70-80m it would take to bring him in. Otherwise, if we're still talking about the likes of Raya, who's a solid keeper without question, we might as well keep De Gea.

Ah, the old tactic of setting the bar unattainably high. Its not enough to have a keeper who is better in every way, like Raya (4th best shot stopper, 2nd best cross catcher, 4th most accurate passer in the league). We need a keeper who is significantly better even than that, which basically means we need the best in the world. Oh and we also have to break the world transfer fee record to do it. And if we can't find this best keeper in the world and afford the world record fee we should... stick with someone who is not even in the top 30 in Europe?

This is not a serious argument. We do not need the best in the world to improve on De Gea. That's like saying only Harry Kane could improve on Martial. Yes, our first preference should be to get the world's best players, always. But since that's rarely ever possible, the next step is to find players better than what we have now. When it comes to keepers, there are plenty of those.

 

[Oranges038]

A very fair piece, but one which still overstates his weaknesses and underestimates the enormous challenges any new keeper we might bring in would immediately face.

Best to keep it brief, so I'll try to do so. While it is true that De Gea has made mistakes this season, the implication is that other keepers don't make mistakes. I'm not going to dig up YouTube videos here to prove the point, but I can assure everyone here that a keeper who does not make mistakes does not exist. (It's not hard to find videos of Peter Schmeichel making mistakes that De Gea not make -- as well as, of course, audacious goalkeeping that we'll never see from De Gea.) Alission and Ederson make mistakes, but there's no doubt that they are better keepers.

But unless we're prepared to spend 70-80m we're just not going to bring in a substantially better keeper than David De Gea. A slightly better keeper can be had for 40-50m but before we jump on the bandwagon to spend 40-50m for a slightly better keeper, keep in mind that we very likely will have to work within a budget even if the Qataris buy the club. What budget I have no idea but it's unlikely that we'll have 300m to spend even after we cash in on McTominay. (We all know Maguire is going to leave with us getting virtually nothing for him, right?) And even if we do bring in a slightly better keeper we would be wise to buckle up for the inevitable nervy start to this new keeper's United career. Say it's Raya...the first time he makes a mistake he will be peltered by the same crowd who pelters De Gea when he makes a mistake. De Gea grew into the colossus he became (before he become the allegedly shite keeper that he is now), but our record with respect to new keepers performing for us under the hot lights of Old Trafford is not that great. Massimo Taibi, Fabien Barthez, Roy Carroll, Tim Howard and God knows who else I'm forgetting pretty much all shit their pants at OT. I thought Ben Foster was pretty decent for us but in truth he was nowhere near the commanding height a Manchester United goalkeeper needs to be at.

What I'm saying is that it's fair game to flog De Gea, but if we're going to have a serious conversation about what to do about De Gea -- and the age of 32 is nowhere the near the age when a keeper goes into collapse -- we need to acknowledge the weaknesses of alternatives who would succeed. The only realistic name that represents the substantial upgrade we're seeking is Diogo Costa, who ticks every single conceivable box and for me would easily be worth the 70-80m it would take to bring him in. Otherwise, if we're still talking about the likes of Raya, who's a solid keeper without question, we might as well keep De Gea.

Nonsense.

Find a keeper that suits the style ETH wants to play and you will see right away the difference it will make. Doesn't have to be 70-80m.

 

[DanielofLeyland]

Nonsense.

Find a keeper that suits the style ETH wants to play and you will see right away the difference it will make. Doesn't have to be 70-80m.

Agreed. I think we underestimate the coaching teams ability to train, teach and adapt a new player to our style of play. We only have to look at Liverpool and how the players there improved immeasurably under Klopp's tutelage. Was VVD and Mane world class when they arrived from Southampton? Players with potential - and the right coaching team - can assimilate into a style and perform well without us having to go 'galactico'.

 

[Sylar]

I honestly don’t know why you keep bringing us into this when the original question had to do with no one wanting De Gea at £200k a week on a free transfer, I listed 4 transfers, actually, and beyond that you also had Kepa on 70m, Mendy on 27m, ditto Allison/Ederson. It’s asinine to suggest that De Gea can’t find a club on a net expenditure of about £30m over 4 years when PL clubs are spending more than ever like drunken sailors.

But from your many, many posts in any topic concerning De Gea, it’s clear that you think he’s bottom of the barrel keeper, so I don’t expect any objectivity here. A 31 year old goalkeeper who won the Golden glove twice, one just this season, and was first choice at United for a decade wouldn’t be sniffed at by even a bottom half PL team, right.

I think @JB7 covered this, but where does this motion come from that teams (outside United) would offer DDG 200k a week?
the general feeling is that DDG is on roughly 350k pw.
And the second top paid keeper in the league is kepa and Allison on 150k.
Spurs best paid player is Kane on around 200k so if they were to replace Lloris with DDG on a free, theres no way hes getting close to 200k. Levy wont be that stupid and doesnt operate that way.
DDG will not be wanted by top clubs at all. Milan, PSG, Inter, Madrid, Barca, the so called top teams would not go near him.
Juventus are the only one I can think off that 'could' possibly be interested but theres been no links (and their keeper is the same age).
No team is breaking wage structure to pay a GK thats no where near his best 200k (at the least) for a valid reason

It won't be that easy finding a replacement for De Gea, unless we either spend a massive sum for Costa or go in for an unproven but highly rated young keeper, of which there are many. But are we really going to roll the dice on a young keeper???

The bolded part is ridiculous. It only makes sense if DDG is seen as 2015ish levels where his shot stopping was insane which could mask all other weaknesses. People throw out that line 'a save only DDG could make' but DDG was making mistakes only he was making. Anyway @quadrant and @Oranges038 made the point.
Regarding your other point that other keepers also make mistakes, yes they do. There isnt a keeper(nor player) that hasnt made a mistake.
however the issue is how DDG deals with it. He completely loses his mind, and this isnt the only season hes done it. We saw it when Ole was manager too, he would make a mistake, let is affect the rest of the game, then let it affect subsequent matches.
Replacing Schmeichel and VDS when they were on top of their game wasnt easy. DDG is nowhere near that level.

I believe we are offering him really low wages relative to his Current one without any assurance of being No 1 going forward and I still think he would leave .

TBF, if hes on 350k, and we offer him 50% of that, hes still getting 175k which is more than every other keeper in the league. If hes not going to be number 1 that is ludicrous. Especially if you take into consideration, if he then plays, it wont be seamless him coming in as we will have to change the way we defend and set up to compensate him.

Yup. Does not mean we can‘t upgrade DeGea, but it will cost us big money.

An upgrade will not cost big money. Getting the best in class would probably cost big money. We can upgrade in a lot of areas DDG is weak in, without losing much of what DDG offers.

 

[mctrials23]

I think they're just trying to not embarrass DDG to be honest. DDG isn't terrible - yes he isn't good enough to start for us, but as a second keeper he is good enough (perhaps Carlo Cudicini levels back in the Chelsea days).

The issue is that we are paying DDG ridiculous money at the moment and I doubt he is going to sign a new contract on a considerably less than half his current one and play second fiddle to someone else. I would have him as backup but honestly hes too good and should just leave the club.

 

[Traub]

The issue is that we are paying DDG ridiculous money at the moment and I doubt he is going to sign a new contract on a considerably less than half his current one and play second fiddle to someone else. I would have him as backup but honestly hes too good and should just leave the club.

Agreed it all comes down to the wages. We in a bit of a tough spot though, because what happens if we can't get a new keeper.

 

[mctrials23]

Agreed it all comes down to the wages. We in a bit of a tough spot though, because what happens if we can't get a new keeper.

I don't think that finding a new keeper will be that hard. Fundamentally there are a lot of keepers about who are better overall than DDG and that is the bottom line. People seem to forget this with keepers. Statistics are very illuminating and yes DDG might make some world class saves semi-regularly but over the course of a season he makes too many mistakes and doesn't add enough value outside his saves. He ranks very poorly overall in the league.

The tough spot is how much we end up paying and how much of an upgrade that is on DDG.

 

[lex talionis]

No doubt doing the multiquote thing is easy but it still eludes me.

In response to this:

The bolded part is ridiculous. It only makes sense if DDG is seen as 2015ish levels where his shot stopping was insane which could mask all other weaknesses. People throw out that line 'a save only DDG could make' but DDG was making mistakes only he was making. Anyway @quadrant and @Oranges038 made the point.
Regarding your other point that other keepers also make mistakes, yes they do. There isnt a keeper(nor player) that hasnt made a mistake.
however the issue is how DDG deals with it. He completely loses his mind, and this isnt the only season hes done it. We saw it when Ole was manager too, he would make a mistake, let is affect the rest of the game, then let it affect subsequent matches.
Replacing Schmeichel and VDS when they were on top of their game wasnt easy. DDG is nowhere near that level.

The reference to what is "ridiculous" is my assertion that De Gea will not be "easy to replace". I should have revised my assertion to replace the word "easy" with "affordable" or words to that effect. It's "easy" enough to replace De Gea with Costa, who would only cost us around 70-80m. If we have the 300m it would probably take to bring in a top 9, a top 8, a promising or proven backup for Casemiro, a solid second or third CB and a RB to upgrade on AWB and still have 70-80m in the holster to spend on Costa then count me in. But I don't believe for a moment that even with Qatari money that we're going to spend 300m, let alone 400m, this summer. Even with the sales of Maguire and McTominay that only brings us in at most 50m to add to our warchest.

The only way it makes any sense to bring in a relatively affordable option like Raya is to argue that De Gea has gone to shite, which is utterly "ridiculous".

That said, I wouldn't mind bringing in Raya but we would be out of our fukking minds to "get rid" of De Gea and trust that Raya is the answer at goalkeeper. Bring in Raya and let him challenge De Gea and if he beats him for the staring role, fan-fukking-tastic. But to take a proven keeper, who is better than Raya, but whatever, dump him into the bin and trust that Raya will do the job would be madness.

But if we get rid of De Gea and bring in Costa instead, great, but we better address the vastly higher needs at striker...unless the argument -- which I've actually read here -- is that De Gea is at fault for our poor finishing on goal, carries the day, which is beyond daft.

 

[Pickle85]

No doubt doing the multiquote thing is easy but it still eludes me.

In response to this:

The bolded part is ridiculous. It only makes sense if DDG is seen as 2015ish levels where his shot stopping was insane which could mask all other weaknesses. People throw out that line 'a save only DDG could make' but DDG was making mistakes only he was making. Anyway @quadrant and @Oranges038 made the point.
Regarding your other point that other keepers also make mistakes, yes they do. There isnt a keeper(nor player) that hasnt made a mistake.
however the issue is how DDG deals with it. He completely loses his mind, and this isnt the only season hes done it. We saw it when Ole was manager too, he would make a mistake, let is affect the rest of the game, then let it affect subsequent matches.
Replacing Schmeichel and VDS when they were on top of their game wasnt easy. DDG is nowhere near that level.

The reference to what is "ridiculous" is my assertion that De Gea will not be "easy to replace". I should have revised my assertion to replace the word "easy" with "affordable" or words to that effect. It's "easy" enough to replace De Gea with Costa, who would only cost us around 70-80m. If we have the 300m it would probably take to bring in a top 9, a top 8, a promising or proven backup for Casemiro, a solid second or third CB and a RB to upgrade on AWB and still have 70-80m in the holster to spend on Costa then count me in. But I don't believe for a moment that even with Qatari money that we're going to spend 300m, let alone 400m, this summer. Even with the sales of Maguire and McTominay that only brings us in at most 50m to add to our warchest.

The only way it makes any sense to bring in a relatively affordable option like Raya is to argue that De Gea has gone to shite, which is utterly "ridiculous".

That said, I wouldn't mind bringing in Raya but we would be out of our fukking minds to "get rid" of De Gea and trust that Raya is the answer at goalkeeper. Bring in Raya and let him challenge De Gea and if he beats him for the staring role, fan-fukking-tastic. But to take a proven keeper, who is better than Raya, but whatever, dump him into the bin and trust that Raya will do the job would be madness.

But if we get rid of De Gea and bring in Costa instead, great, but we better address the vastly higher needs at striker...unless the argument -- which I've actually read here -- is that De Gea is at fault for our poor finishing on goal, carries the day, which is beyond daft.

I'm with you mate but you're fighting a losing battle with these folks. He can be upgraded but we have other positions that need replacing more urgently. Folks saying that keepers like Raya are nailed on to be an upgrade are making a massive assumption...playing for Brentford is totally different in many, many ways (not least pressure). It's definitely not a given that he'd be an upgrade.

Still bizarre to me the ridicule aimed at this season's golden gloves winner and a united legend.

 

[Sylar]

No doubt doing the multiquote thing is easy but it still eludes me.

In response to this:

The bolded part is ridiculous. It only makes sense if DDG is seen as 2015ish levels where his shot stopping was insane which could mask all other weaknesses. People throw out that line 'a save only DDG could make' but DDG was making mistakes only he was making. Anyway @quadrant and @Oranges038 made the point.
Regarding your other point that other keepers also make mistakes, yes they do. There isnt a keeper(nor player) that hasnt made a mistake.
however the issue is how DDG deals with it. He completely loses his mind, and this isnt the only season hes done it. We saw it when Ole was manager too, he would make a mistake, let is affect the rest of the game, then let it affect subsequent matches.
Replacing Schmeichel and VDS when they were on top of their game wasnt easy. DDG is nowhere near that level.

The reference to what is "ridiculous" is my assertion that De Gea will not be "easy to replace". I should have revised my assertion to replace the word "easy" with "affordable" or words to that effect. It's "easy" enough to replace De Gea with Costa, who would only cost us around 70-80m. If we have the 300m it would probably take to bring in a top 9, a top 8, a promising or proven backup for Casemiro, a solid second or third CB and a RB to upgrade on AWB and still have 70-80m in the holster to spend on Costa then count me in. But I don't believe for a moment that even with Qatari money that we're going to spend 300m, let alone 400m, this summer. Even with the sales of Maguire and McTominay that only brings us in at most 50m to add to our warchest.

The only way it makes any sense to bring in a relatively affordable option like Raya is to argue that De Gea has gone to shite, which is utterly "ridiculous".

That said, I wouldn't mind bringing in Raya but we would be out of our fukking minds to "get rid" of De Gea and trust that Raya is the answer at goalkeeper. Bring in Raya and let him challenge De Gea and if he beats him for the staring role, fan-fukking-tastic. But to take a proven keeper, who is better than Raya, but whatever, dump him into the bin and trust that Raya will do the job would be madness.

But if we get rid of De Gea and bring in Costa instead, great, but we better address the vastly higher needs at striker...unless the argument -- which I've actually read here -- is that De Gea is at fault for our poor finishing on goal, carries the day, which is beyond daft.

I'm with you mate but you're fighting a losing battle with these folks. He can be upgraded but we have other positions that need replacing more urgently. Folks saying that keepers like Raya are nailed on to be an upgrade are making a massive assumption...playing for Brentford is totally different in many, many ways (not least pressure). It's definitely not a given that he'd be an upgrade.

Still bizarre to me the ridicule aimed at this season's golden gloves winner and a united legend.

Replacing ddg should not be costly, that's the point. Easy, costly or whatever word you want to use, getting somebody in to replace ddg who is an upgrade would not be an issue unless we're trying to get the top of the class.
We could get a short term keeper if needed that is an upgrade and then plan for a longer term upgrade, however the key would be to fit Eth style of play

I haven't said bringing a keeper is more important than a striker because we obviously lack one and that would make a huge difference.
However I would argue GK as the top of the spine is second most important player we need, for reasons that have been said many times.

Even if we make the Raya arguement regarding pressure at united ,let's not pretend ddg has been a shining example of dealing with pressure at united in big games. He's folded more often than not especially knockout situations under several managers.

Also the last line about ridicule... Are we still going with the line that criticism is now ridiculing and agenda driven?

 

[Longshanks]

No doubt doing the multiquote thing is easy but it still eludes me.

In response to this:

The bolded part is ridiculous. It only makes sense if DDG is seen as 2015ish levels where his shot stopping was insane which could mask all other weaknesses. People throw out that line 'a save only DDG could make' but DDG was making mistakes only he was making. Anyway @quadrant and @Oranges038 made the point.
Regarding your other point that other keepers also make mistakes, yes they do. There isnt a keeper(nor player) that hasnt made a mistake.
however the issue is how DDG deals with it. He completely loses his mind, and this isnt the only season hes done it. We saw it when Ole was manager too, he would make a mistake, let is affect the rest of the game, then let it affect subsequent matches.
Replacing Schmeichel and VDS when they were on top of their game wasnt easy. DDG is nowhere near that level.

The reference to what is "ridiculous" is my assertion that De Gea will not be "easy to replace". I should have revised my assertion to replace the word "easy" with "affordable" or words to that effect. It's "easy" enough to replace De Gea with Costa, who would only cost us around 70-80m. If we have the 300m it would probably take to bring in a top 9, a top 8, a promising or proven backup for Casemiro, a solid second or third CB and a RB to upgrade on AWB and still have 70-80m in the holster to spend on Costa then count me in. But I don't believe for a moment that even with Qatari money that we're going to spend 300m, let alone 400m, this summer. Even with the sales of Maguire and McTominay that only brings us in at most 50m to add to our warchest.

The only way it makes any sense to bring in a relatively affordable option like Raya is to argue that De Gea has gone to shite, which is utterly "ridiculous".

That said, I wouldn't mind bringing in Raya but we would be out of our fukking minds to "get rid" of De Gea and trust that Raya is the answer at goalkeeper. Bring in Raya and let him challenge De Gea and if he beats him for the staring role, fan-fukking-tastic. But to take a proven keeper, who is better than Raya, but whatever, dump him into the bin and trust that Raya will do the job would be madness.

But if we get rid of De Gea and bring in Costa instead, great, but we better address the vastly higher needs at striker...unless the argument -- which I've actually read here -- is that De Gea is at fault for our poor finishing on goal, carries the day, which is beyond daft.

Not sure if you have noticed but De Gea is out of contract.

It would be beyond madness to renew the contract of a GK that is compleatly unsuited to the managers play style. And that's before we start talking about De Gea biggest flaws.

Raya is a sensible option because he ticks all the right boxes for ten hags play style, is PL proven and should be available for a fair price.

If nothing else he should allow ten hag to push the team more towards his style even if on Raw goalkeeping he isn't as good as De Gea (highly debatable)

De Gea is holding us back, even if you believe he is still a good GK (again highly debatable) he isn't suited to top level football anymore and being as though he is out of contract this season it seems like the most sensible option to finally get a 'modern GK' in.

 

[ArmaDino]

I'm with you mate but you're fighting a losing battle with these folks. He can be upgraded but we have other positions that need replacing more urgently. Folks saying that keepers like Raya are nailed on to be an upgrade are making a massive assumption...playing for Brentford is totally different in many, many ways (not least pressure). It's definitely not a given that he'd be an upgrade.

Still bizarre to me the ridicule aimed at this season's golden gloves winner and a united legend.

Van Der Sar played for Fulham when he was brought in. Schmeichel played for some random Danish club. Maiganan played for Lille. And guess what, neither of these blokes broke the bank, to the contrary actually. Not everyone has to be an Alisson or a Buffon to be a sucess.

This idea that GKs can't handle the pressure at United and need to play for some other top club is absolute bollocks.

The only reason our GKs in the past have been shaky is because of SAF's poor GK management(which is ironic considering he was a GOAT tier man manager). He would drop them as soon as they made a mistake. GKs like Taibi, Howard or Caroll have been benched for less than DDG. Stuff like that is definitely not good for their confidence.

With GKs, you can't rotate them, you either trust them as your No. 1 or you bench them. Ironically De Gea went through the exact same treatment. As a result he was benched for Lindegaard of all the GKs. He didn't get his spot back till Lindegaard had an injury and he became undisputed No. 1 for the rest of the season. That's when he actually started performing like the Dave we now know.

So please let's not make this insane hyperbole that you need to be born with a star on your forehead to be a good GK for United. Any GK that will improve us by better collecting crosses, being able to pick out our passes through short passes when under pressure and pushing up the defensive line will do.

 

[dinostar77]

Not sure if you have noticed but De Gea is out of contract.

It would be beyond madness to renew the contract of a GK that is compleatly unsuited to the managers play style. And that's before we start talking about De Gea biggest flaws.

Raya is a sensible option because he ticks all the right boxes for ten hags play style, is PL proven and should be available for a fair price.

If nothing else he should allow ten hag to push the team more towards his style even if on Raw goalkeeping he isn't as good as De Gea (highly debatable)

De Gea is holding us back, even if you believe he is still a good GK (again highly debatable) he isn't suited to top level football anymore and being as though he is out of contract this season it seems like the most sensible option to finally get a 'modern GK' in.

Raya isnt good enough for Utd, as some anaylsis videos have pointed out.

De Gea just won the golden gloves, but isnt "suited to top level football anymore"

Also its not "beyond madness" to renew his contract, hes an assest you dont want leaving on a free.

He may not be the 'modern' keeper that ETH wants. However you have to work within the confines of your budget. A no9 and no8 have been prioritised over a 'modern' keeper.

Theres one elite characteristic a "modern' keeper would need to succeed at utd and thats shot stopping. Playimg out from the back, contributing to the hugh press or playing sweeper-keeper is all well and good. If you cant pull off world class saves like de gea can, you arent going to last long at utd. Raya definetely cant. There are other keepers who can, however they wont be cheap and the priority this summer as we all know is a no9 and a no8.

So renewing de gea and bringing in somw competition for him makes perfect sense. However his long term replacement? That will have to wait till next summer and the budget to go after the very very elite 'modern' keepers who can also pull off world class saves.

 

[dinostar77]

Not sure if you have noticed but De Gea is out of contract.

It would be beyond madness to renew the contract of a GK that is compleatly unsuited to the managers play style. And that's before we start talking about De Gea biggest flaws.

Raya is a sensible option because he ticks all the right boxes for ten hags play style, is PL proven and should be available for a fair price.

If nothing else he should allow ten hag to push the team more towards his style even if on Raw goalkeeping he isn't as good as De Gea (highly debatable)

De Gea is holding us back, even if you believe he is still a good GK (again highly debatable) he isn't suited to top level football anymore and being as though he is out of contract this season it seems like the most sensible option to finally get a 'modern GK' in.

Raya isnt good enough for Utd, as some anaylsis videos have pointed out.

De Gea just won the golden gloves, but isnt "suited to top level football anymore"

Also its not "beyond madness" to renew his contract, hes an assest you dont want leaving on a free.

He may not be the 'modern' keeper tgat ETH wants. However you have to work within the confines of your budget. A no9 and no8 have been prioritised over a 'modern' keeper.

Theres one elite characteristic a "modern' keeper would need to succeed at utd and thats shot stopping. Playing out from the back, contributing to the high press or playing sweeper-keeper is all well and good. If you cant pull off world class saves like de gea can, you arent going to last long at utd. Raya definetely cant. There are other keepers who can, however they wont be cheap and the priority this summer as we all know is a no9 and a no8.

So renewing de gea and bringing in some competition for him makes perfect sense. However his long term replacement? That will have to wait till next summer and the budget to go after the very very elite 'modern' keepers who can also pull off world class saves.