Truly happy for him. Still firmly believe we need to upgrade on him next season, but fantastic to see a true United legend get this award.
1
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Remember when the scousers used to celebrate golden glove
I can see where they were coming from now...
Assimilation complete. We are RAWK
What have I become?!
It's amazing how this place swings from game to game.
After the West Ham game, you won't have found many saying he wasn't a problem. A clean sheet against Bournemouth doesn't change that.
His save percentage is 71.4%, meaning he's in the bottom 44% of keepers for saved shots this season. That means when he is called upon, he's not that great. And this is the strongest part of his game apparently. Decent save from Moore yesterday, but it's not a save that a lot of other keepers in the league wouldn't have made.
The award has more to do with the organisation in front of him, the defence have done a brilliant job of shielding him for most of the season (just look at the Wolves game where we restricted them to not a single shot on target)
After the West Ham game, you won't have found many saying he wasn't a problem. A clean sheet against Bournemouth doesn't change that.
His save percentage is 71.4%, meaning he's in the bottom 44% of keepers for saved shots this season. That means when he is called upon, he's not that great. And this is the strongest part of his game apparently. Decent save from Moore yesterday, but it's not a save that a lot of other keepers in the league wouldn't have made.
The award has more to do with the organisation in front of him, the defence have done a brilliant job of shielding him for most of the season (just look at the Wolves game where we restricted them to not a single shot on target)
In all seriousness it’s a good thing for him, as it’s a confirmation that the defence is progressing even if DeGea has been patchy at times
Good game for him yesterday. Should be looking elsewhere, but I definitely think his shot-stopping this year has been quite underrated on here. He's been mostly very solid with a few clangers, but with his stats being bogged down by two particularly bad performances from the whole team.
I’ve been following football since the early nineties and I don’t remember a time when goalkeepers were analysed and discussed as much as they are now.
In many ways this is expected as they are now just as integral to launching an attack as they are to defending it. DDG would have been the greatest of all time (as far as keepers go) had he played in the 90s. The game has since evolved and the “sweeper keeper” is an important element to beat the press.
Without the vision and ability to pick out a pass or authoritatively claim a cross to launch a quick counterattack, a team’s attacking avenues are severely limited especially in a team like ours without a reliable number 9.
In many ways this is expected as they are now just as integral to launching an attack as they are to defending it. DDG would have been the greatest of all time (as far as keepers go) had he played in the 90s. The game has since evolved and the “sweeper keeper” is an important element to beat the press.
Without the vision and ability to pick out a pass or authoritatively claim a cross to launch a quick counterattack, a team’s attacking avenues are severely limited especially in a team like ours without a reliable number 9.
Mate you are seriously reaching with that statement , there is more chance of him being totally destroyed during that period in PL than him being the greatest .
His problems are nothing to do with Modern football actually it's more to do with him being just poor at Goalkeeping fundamentals .
Controlling the box , commanding in the Air and organising the defense and not being afraid of physical contact are the basic traits which a keeper should be good at which unfortunately De Gea has always been lacking .
Mate, if you've watched football since the early 90s you would know we (united) had a keeper that trumps him in anything and everything you want from a top keeper.
Ddg was a great shot stopper but as an overall goalkeeper, its a ridiculous statement as @gajender has pointed out. Forget all the stuff that goes with modern keeper, he has issues with stuff that goes with being a classic keeper, and it's something he's never improved upon.
It's gone as expected tbh. After the west ham game his apologists all went quiet or were nowhere to be seen.
And as predicted they came back after one or two saves you expect and have seen most keepers make but with the added sarcasm trying to dismiss others or added comments about his performance acting like he's the only keeper who can make standard saves.
It's like clockwork and very predictable
Yeah, agreed. ETH seems to have helped us tighten up at the back, though the anomalous thrashings we've had haven't been great. Ddg has definitely had some bumps and I don't think he's the solution longterm but I am pleased for him for the Golden Gloves. I also suspect he'll remain our number one next season.
How much more evidence do we need to explain the substandard play of Sancho, Martial and Antony this season back to the horrifying performances of David De Gea?
It's my own interpretation using the same stat people are using to call him bang average broken down on a per-match basis instead of accumulative, the same way you decide the league on points rather than total goal difference.
I'm considering a psxG performance of 0,5 to -0,5 to be within the norm (the goalkeeper didn't prevent or concede more than expected), whereas for games outside of this range, goals are added or subtracted to determine what a norm performance would have resulted in.
These are his (De Gea) +/- matches.
Points Won (13):
Liverpool (+0,79) +2p
Southampton (+0,82) +2p
Leicester (+0,59) +2p
West Ham (+0,84) +2p
Wolves (+0,59) +2p
Southampton (+0,71) +1p
Bournemouth (+0,61) +2p
Points Lost (4):
Man City (-2,94) -1p
Aston Villa (-1,55) -1p
Leeds United (-1,70) -2p
Total: +9p
Liverpool (+0,79) +2p
Southampton (+0,82) +2p
Leicester (+0,59) +2p
West Ham (+0,84) +2p
Wolves (+0,59) +2p
Southampton (+0,71) +1p
Bournemouth (+0,61) +2p
Points Lost (4):
Man City (-2,94) -1p
Aston Villa (-1,55) -1p
Leeds United (-1,70) -2p
Total: +9p
Points gained/lost as a goalie is obviously just a measure of outcome as other factors are at play as well.
Furthermore; read into it for what it is, but here's my version of the shot stopping ranking (you can question how I've weighed the points, but data stays the same):
For all the "shots that only Dave can save" memes on these boards, there's actually only two other goalies that consistently delivers as many great (shot-stopping) performances.
We are talking about a guy who is happy to lie flat on his back while the ball remains in play in his own penalty area if he thinks he deserves a free kick; he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in the 90's with the relative lack of protection goalkeepers got.
Your post is spot on. The fundamentals of goalkeeping haven't changed in 30+ years.
Best defensive achievement for us since Jose?
Thought it was more than that. We have still definitely kept shots on target down to a minimum this season. 1/2 on target in our better games. The games that we got smashed in have made our defensive record look a lot worse than it really should be.
He definitely would not. He does not command his box at all. Keepers of every generation have been expected to deal with balls into the box. De Gea is one of the worst keepers in the top leagues at dealing with crosses. If anything, I think De Gea struggles even more in the 90's. PL football was far more direct and that exposes big weaknesses for him. He would have been expected to deal with far more physical battles and balls into the box than he is now.
You're right that keepers are far more scrutinised in the modern era, but De Gea still lacks fundamentals that keepers have been expected to have forever.
De Gea having a good game every now and again changes nothing. He has too many weaknesses and should be replaced. De Gea's fans make it sound like his only issue is distribution. If only that were the case.
Are penalties considered as one v one? Because I find it so strange that someone with such good reflex is so shit at pens.
FA Cup Final will be his swansong with us, Ten Hag has a style of play in mind fos the team he wants and DDG is the wrong keeper for it. His wage bill is far too much for a keeper of his limited ability.
Is he bottom 44%? Show me your source, please.
Fbref show he's not, and only 2 places below Alisson, and 9 places above Ederson. https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats
Can't post images, but look for De Gea on fbref yourself.
https://fbref.com/en/players/7ba6d84e/David-de-Gea
Save percentage is 71.4%, his percentile has now shifted to 45. It's actually lower than that in the league (70.9%) but his average is increased by his 73.7% in the Europa.
And when I say bottom percentile, I'm not just comparing the Premier League, but keepers in Europe and further afield.
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De Gea came along at pretty much the only time in the last 50 years or so that he could have really reached the top level - after goalkeepers started getting a massive amount of protection from referees, but before the sweeping and ball-playing became super important for all teams. De Gea in the 90's and earlier would have been eaten alive by opposition strikers physically dominating him, and his weaknesses to crosses would have been targeted even more than they are now. There's a chance he might have been able to still succeed in Spain, but not a chance he'd have survived in England.
There have always been a lot of aspects to being a top goalkeeper. It's not just the 'modern' stuff that De Gea is poor at, it's also the stuff that has always been hugely important (and if anything used to be more important than they are now). It's never been just shot-stopping, unless maybe if you're going waaaaay back where maybe it would have been good enough (I have no real idea how it was in the 70's or earlier).
He's basically a goldilocks planet for goalkeepers.
Any earlier, he'd have been eaten alive by the more physical aspect of football, and any later, he'd possess a game lacking serious tools that most, if not all top clubs are now looking for.
A striker is a priority, a new keeper is not far behind.
Different skill-set to be fair... same way that a striker who is really good at finishing might be a rubbish penalty taker.
And yet we are offering a new contract with a reduced wage so ETH clearly wants to keep him. We also have a finite budget therefore can only bring someone in on a decent price.
What a bizarre comment. We have hardly had a settled back 4 this season due to one reason or another. The clean sheets are a combined effort but saying it has more to do with the defence rather than the GK is just not true.
David DeGea is a United legend, winning the league, Fa cup, Europa League and League cup. Setting a record for most clean sheets (in the premier league?) along the way. He fully deserves his golden gloves award this season.
However, an upgrade in the summer is still a good idea ( but not as important as a striker ). If we can pick up a relatively cheap keeper 20-30m we should jump at it. If we get bought by Qatar we can buy who we like but a chnage at goalkeeper would be a good thing at this point.
However, an upgrade in the summer is still a good idea ( but not as important as a striker ). If we can pick up a relatively cheap keeper 20-30m we should jump at it. If we get bought by Qatar we can buy who we like but a chnage at goalkeeper would be a good thing at this point.
Oww.. the stats that shows Alisson in bottom 35%
https://fbref.com/en/players/7a2e46a8/Alisson
or Ederson in bottom 23%
https://fbref.com/en/players/3bb7b8b4/Ederson
Save percentage is a terrible metric. It doesn’t take into account the quality of shots faced. PSxG/SoT is a measure of that and you’ll note that Alisson is in the 99th percentile for that. He faces harder to save shots.
PSxG-GA is the number of goals conceded above or below what the average goalkeeper would achieve, based on the number and difficulty of shots faced. Alisson ranks consistently at or near the top almost every season. Ederson and De Gea (since 17/18 at least) are consistently mediocre on this metric.
I don't know. It's hard to believe that Alisson faced significantly harder to save shots than any other regular Gk.
Have you seen Liverpool’s high line?
Not denying Alisson is one of the very best. But whenever I watched Liverpool, I've never thought that Alisson had it rough with shots he had facing. They were sometimes good shots, sometimes just lame shots. Just like in every other games.
But I don't watch Liverpool games much. So he probably was facing worldie shots in those others.
Yeah because those 2 don't offer anything else do they
The human mind isn’t very good at drawing accurate conclusions, especially with limited information, obtained over a long period of time.
As someone who actually watched those games, what a bunch of nonsense stats.It's my own interpretation using the same stat people are using to call him bang average broken down on a per-match basis instead of accumulative, the same way you decide the league on points rather than total goal difference.
I'm considering a psxG performance of 0,5 to -0,5 to be within the norm (the goalkeeper didn't prevent or concede more than expected), whereas for games outside of this range, goals are added or subtracted to determine what a norm performance would have resulted in.
These are his (De Gea) +/- matches.
Points Won (13):
Liverpool (+0,79) +2p
Southampton (+0,82) +2p
Leicester (+0,59) +2p
West Ham (+0,84) +2p
Wolves (+0,59) +2p
Southampton (+0,71) +1p
Bournemouth (+0,61) +2p
Points Lost (4):
Man City (-2,94) -1p
Aston Villa (-1,55) -1p
Leeds United (-1,70) -2p
Total: +9p
Points gained/lost as a goalie is obviously just a measure of outcome as other factors are at play as well.
Furthermore; read into it for what it is, but here's my version of the shot stopping ranking (you can question how I've weighed the points, but data stays the same):
For all the "shots that only Dave can save" memes on these boards, there's actually only two other goalies that consistently delivers as many great (shot-stopping) performances.
Let's take the 2-1 vs Liverpool as an example. He made only 1 save which rebounded back to a Liverpool player that slotted it home. Aside from that all the Liverpool chances went wide. Saying he saved us 2 points in that match is ridiculous. If anything Dalot who cleared Bruno's miskick off the line is the one that should get credit for saving us points.
And the fact that he dropped a clanger against West Ham and made us lose one very crucial point(which would have us in the CL right now) is not even on this list is all I need to know about the validity of these stats.
Fact is very simple: he's just not good enough to be our starter anymore. To have hime at any list at the top is absolute nonsense. The guy can't kick, can't claim a cross to save his life, can't organize the defence and has mediocre shot stopping abilities. The only reason we should have him around is because professionalism and good vibes in the dressing room.
Excellent post, though I think it was Martinez who made the clearance off the line.
"Someone who actually watched those games"... is usually not a good start to any discussion, especially not when it looks as though you've only rewatched the goals reel.
The chance from Diaz right after we scored the second is a ridiculously good reaction save. There's also a solid save from Firmino about a minute before they scored.
I won't argue the West Ham situation, the weakness of these stats are that if you do indeed make a mistake you can reel it back in with enough slapshot saves.
Only IF we can't get any of Costa/Martinez/Raya
Entertaining seeing so many unable to understand gk stats. Very few have a grip on it.
I‘m not defending De Gea, I think we should upgrade eventually but the stuff leveled at him is ridiculous.
Golden Glove: credit is given to our defense instead of De Gea. We have had eight or more different cb pairings and multiple absences/injuries of Varane and Martinez. This is clearly bollocks.
Fact is: De Gea has saved us many times with impressive saves. A fact, not the ramblings of a blind fan.
His distribution has not been as terrible as claimed, but fairly decent overall. It depends a lot on the movement of his targets to pass to, which has been not good enough. Watch City and you know what I mean by that.
A 20/30 million gk is gonna be an improvement on De Gea according to many ‚experts‘ here. Not gonna happen unless we get extremely lucky.
Bottom line: if DeGea was as bad as posted here, we would not have a golden glove and not make top four by a long shot. The criticism just doesn‘t add up.
De Gea will be here next season with Ten Hag‘s blessing, quote me on this if I‘m wrong later.
I‘m not defending De Gea, I think we should upgrade eventually but the stuff leveled at him is ridiculous.
Golden Glove: credit is given to our defense instead of De Gea. We have had eight or more different cb pairings and multiple absences/injuries of Varane and Martinez. This is clearly bollocks.
Fact is: De Gea has saved us many times with impressive saves. A fact, not the ramblings of a blind fan.
His distribution has not been as terrible as claimed, but fairly decent overall. It depends a lot on the movement of his targets to pass to, which has been not good enough. Watch City and you know what I mean by that.
A 20/30 million gk is gonna be an improvement on De Gea according to many ‚experts‘ here. Not gonna happen unless we get extremely lucky.
Bottom line: if DeGea was as bad as posted here, we would not have a golden glove and not make top four by a long shot. The criticism just doesn‘t add up.
De Gea will be here next season with Ten Hag‘s blessing, quote me on this if I‘m wrong later.
We have one of the deepest defensive lines in the whole league. It's a clear tactic to make us defensively solid as a team with counter pressing and shape being the clear foundations of ETH's tactical instructions this year. We have many bodies behind the ball and we often relinquish possession to counter press and counter attack teams. De Gea deserves credit for the clean sheets but most of it is a collective effort in front of him.
His distribution is absolutely terrible. Other than in the situations where there is an obvious free man in acres of space AND with no opposition pressing him, his passing and composure on the ball is shocking.
We've made top four because of ETH's coaching and managing. De Gea has contributed to it but any other competent keeper would have likely given us a decent production also.
The criticism absolutely adds up by the eye test and stats.
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