David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

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Commadus said:
My thoughts exactly. I thought he had addressed this issue.

One thing that gets repeated on here is he needs to bulk up. Its understandable at United we have been lucky to have freakish players like Shmeichel and Stam who were agile but huge as well and we seem to always compare subsequent players to our past greats.

DDG is big enough it's not NFL we are playing. Look at the first cross that Hanley beats him - DDG first moves a bit, re-adjusts and then when he makes an attempt Hanley alreadys has a run on him and has the space to jump into - space which DDG should have been occupying.

The other thing I noticed is DDG does jump too open - ie he should try to use his shoulder, knee or elbow more to protect himself and that he shouldnt jump chest on.
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I disagree actually. He's not big enough, he needs to be bigger in order to barge his way through players to get to the ball. I know you said we tend to ask all our keepers after schmeichel to be physically imposing like him, but i'm sorry, that's what a keeper needs to be. Not necessarily a huge kind of big, as someone pointed van der sar wasn't, but physically imposing. At this moment DDG just looks like the little thin kid that can be bullied.

Spend some time in the gym, get bigger. It can't hurt.
 
Think it's easy to forget how well he was playing before his break after yesterday's performance. He was keeping clean sheets, clearly improving on his weak areas (mainly aerial crosses and presence) and was making some excellent stops.

Yesterday he clearly took a few steps back in his progress and looked like the rusty and physically weak keeper we saw at the start of the season, but I think we've seen enough of him this season to know that he has the ability to perform to a very high level.

The main challenge is how to balance him with Lindegaard. I think DDG is a real confidence player and switching him round in favour of others is likely to set him back a bit, but then Lindegaard is arguably equal to DDG in talent and performances, so clearly needs to be given time as well. Managing the situation to achieve optimal for development for both is a real challenge for Fergie this season, but it's great to be in such a situation with two young and promising keepers.
 
Sultan said:
It's typically knee jerk. Football fans traditionally tend to be very short term judges. He'll hardly have improved dramatically and yet a good game against Newcastle and we'll likely be hailing De Gea as a great signing.
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Not everyone. For some people DDG has already marked his card with a couple of mistakes over a season, like early on with Foster. Wont matter if he plays brilliantly for the next 5 games they still wont be happy with him citing a mistake on a cross a number of games ago, like VDS didnt make an even worse mistake on a cross last season. Our fans seem to expect a goalkeeper, no matter how young or inexperienced, to not make any mistakes. And thats something I was talking about when we were linked with the likes of De Gea and other young keepers in the summer. They all make mistakes. All of them. Even keepers people on here think are "top" keepers like Reina and Hart make clangers too. But if ours makes a couple of mistakes in half a season? Well he's not ready yet. Apparently
 
Despite a couple of mistakes you can chalk down to inexperience and naivety he's still played the majority of games for the tightest defence in the league and made more saves than any other keeper hasn't he?

He also seems to have then right mentality, the CS was a total nightmare for him, his Utd career could have been over before it started but he recovered well.

All keepers make the odd mistake and given his age and physical stature he'll probably make a few more for a year or two but he has the potential to be a top, top keeper IMO.
 
Ekeke said:
Not everyone. For some people DDG has already marked his card with a couple of mistakes over a season, like early on with Foster. Wont matter if he plays brilliantly for the next 5 games they still wont be happy with him citing a mistake on a cross a number of games ago, like VDS didnt make an even worse mistake on a cross last season. Our fans seem to expect a goalkeeper, no matter how young or inexperienced, to not make any mistakes. And thats something I was talking about when we were linked with the likes of De Gea and other young keepers in the summer. They all make mistakes. All of them. Even keepers people on here think are "top" keepers like Reina and Hart make clangers too. But if ours makes a couple of mistakes in half a season? Well he's not ready yet. Apparently
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He's made more than a couple of mistakes. Some one here are in blind denial that his mistakes should be excused. I am saying they need to be analysed -why do they happen and what has he done to address them.

Off the top of my head.

Charity Shield - Dzeko long rage shot - poor positioning.
West Brom - Dived over a straight shot from Shane Long.
City - Dzeko shot when one on one - very poor positioning.
Benfica - poor kick out leading to posession lost and goal
basel - kicked at a cross rather than going with this hand and basel scored
Blackburn - didnt collect the cross and Hanley scored

DDG has done well but he could do a lot better I am happy he is at United but more work needs to be done.
 
Eyepopper said:
but he has the potential to be a top, top keeper IMO.
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This is the bit I don't understand to be honest. What makes people see potential in him? How do you gauge it? Is it just blind faith? Would we still see the 'potential' if he cost 500k?
 
He's 21, playing his first season at a new club in a new country, under a massive spotlight, has made more saves than any other keeper in the league and is first choice keeper for the team with the tightest defence in the league.

Hardly blind faith.


EDIT: ... and I couldn't give a shit what he costs, if you cant recognise potential in a young player thats your problem, its pretty obvious as far as De Gea's concerned IMO.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
This is the bit I don't understand to be honest. What makes people see potential in him? How do you gauge it? Is it just blind faith? Would we still see the 'potential' if he cost 500k?
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Bit hypocritical. What makes you think Lindegaard is better? From 5 games? DDG was voted the best keeper in La Liga last season.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
This is the bit I don't understand to be honest. What makes people see potential in him? How do you gauge it? Is it just blind faith? Would we still see the 'potential' if he cost 500k?
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I know he's had mistakes, but do you not think he's put in some pretty decent performances for us as well?

I felt he was really coming on for us. The games he's had out have obviously led to some regression, but the performances prior to that I found reassuring.

I'm also a big Lindegaard fan though.
 
Arguably, DDG's errors are magnified because, these days, we're not able to rectify situations (and so, his mistakes 'cost' more) - when we go behind late in a game, I rarely expect us to draw level or win as so often in the past.
 
I feel sorry for keepers. Most analysts when looking at a player will always take age into consideration. Nobody expects a 21 year old defender, midfielder or striker to be the finished product but De Gea is supposed to be one of the best within a couple of months?

Players that have that something (which I think he has) will always be given time.
 
Its tough being a GK. Fans tend to remember goals, quite rightly so. A GK makes a mistake and we forget about the ten fantastic saves they made. A striker misses a few clangers and we forget about his misses when he scores.

I want to see DDG gain a few pounds and get a little more aggressive with crosses. He barely got off the ground with the mistake yesterday which is awful technique. He is very technically sound in every other area of his game, he just needs a little more experience.
 
SteveJ said:
Arguably, DDG's errors are magnified because, these days, we're not able to rectify situations (and so, his mistakes 'cost' more) - when we go behind late in a game, I rarely expect us to draw level or win as so often in the past.
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Sadly, I think this is an accurate point.
 
I dont think anyone is dimissing DDG good performances - its what we expect from a talented GK. Only a naive person would expect zero mistakes.
 
Commadus said:
I dont think anyone is dimissing DDG good performances - its what we expect from a talented GK. Only a naive person would expect zero mistakes.
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I think those calling for him to be dropped in favour of Lindegaard are....
 
Eyepopper said:
He's 21, playing his first season at a new club in a new country, under a massive spotlight, has made more saves than any other keeper in the league and is first choice keeper for the team with the tightest defence in the league.

Hardly blind faith.


EDIT: ... and I couldn't give a shit what he costs, if you cant recognise potential in a young player thats your problem, its pretty obvious as far as De Gea's concerned IMO.
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I'm not saying he hasn't had his good moments, but his bad moments have been (imo) on a David Luiz-esque scale of shocking. Mistakes that I don't really put down to 'being young', because 1. There's plenty of young keepers who don't make these mistakes and 2. His 'errors' seem like those of a guy who is new to the position of GK, not small forgiveable mistakes.

I still don't see how we can assume he has great potential. Huge room for improvement - yes, but in the same way I have huge room for improvement to be a genius.

Snow said:
Bit hypocritical. What makes you think Lindegaard is better? From 5 games? DDG was voted the best keeper in La Liga last season.
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How can I be hypocritical when asking a question? I never claimed Lindergaard was better either. Good for Dave. He isn't playing there any more.

Agent Red said:
I know he's had mistakes, but do you not think he's put in some pretty decent performances for us as well?

I felt he was really coming on for us. The games he's had out have obviously led to some regression, but the performances prior to that I found reassuring.

I'm also a big Lindegaard fan though.
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I agree, he has had some decent performances, but as the weeks go by, I just have more and more doubts upon watching him that he is good enough. I hope he proves me wrong, but the mistakes are there for all to see, and I'm sorry if people want to ignore the price, but at £20,000,000 I don't think it was expected by anyone at United that he would make so many errors. (I use the term 'so many' delicately - obviously it's just halfway through the season, but still a lot (imo) but it's the type of mistakes that worry me more than the quantity).
 
I take it you didn't watch him in La Liga much then? Very highly rated in Spain.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I'm not saying he hasn't had his good moments, but his bad moments have been (imo) on a David Luiz-esque scale of shocking. Mistakes that I don't really put down to 'being young', because 1. There's plenty of young keepers who don't make these mistakes and 2. His 'errors' seem like those of a guy who is new to the position of GK, not small forgiveable mistakes.
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I think thats rubbish.

Who are these young keepers that dont make mistakes? Do you think his mistakes may be highlighted more than others because he's replacing VDS at Utd and cost 20million?

His most worrying errors are when faced with big physical players, something which is pretty new to him, you dont get the same type of challenge in La Liga.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
I take it you didn't watch him in La Liga much then? Very highly rated in Spain.
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Nope, and I'm sure he was. I had total confidence in the club that they would buy the right man, whoever it may be. No reason to doubt it before now judging his 1st half of the season.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I'm not saying he hasn't had his good moments, but his bad moments have been (imo) on a David Luiz-esque scale of shocking. Mistakes that I don't really put down to 'being young', because 1. There's plenty of young keepers who don't make these mistakes and 2. His 'errors' seem like those of a guy who is new to the position of GK, not small forgiveable mistakes.

I still don't see how we can assume he has great potential.



How can I be hypocritical when asking a question? I never claimed Lindergaard was better either. Good for Dave. He isn't playing there any more.



I agree, he has had some decent performances, but as the weeks go by, I just have more and more doubts upon watching him that he is good enough. I hope he proves me wrong, but the mistakes are there for all to see, and I'm sorry if people want to ignore the price, but at £20,000,000 I don't think it was expected by anyone at United that he would make so many errors. (I use the term 'so many' delicately - obviously it's just halfway through the season, but still a lot (imo) but it's the type of mistakes that worry me more than the quantity).
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Seriously? Goalkeepers make mistakes all the time. You see it every matchday from someone somewhere. And there aren't exactly younger keepers playing out there in a bundle.
It's not always that the opposition team score when they make a mistake like that. That kick against Benfica. Lindegaard has kicked that way twice. The Blackburn keeper did it yesterday. Difference is they got lucky that they weren't punished.

Valdes against Real Madrid the other day.

If you think keepers don't make mistakes like that, and you even specifically said young keepers, you are deluded mate.
 
Skholesy said:
I disagree actually. He's not big enough, he needs to be bigger in order to barge his way through players to get to the ball. I know you said we tend to ask all our keepers after schmeichel to be physically imposing like him, but i'm sorry, that's what a keeper needs to be. Not necessarily a huge kind of big, as someone pointed van der sar wasn't, but physically imposing. At this moment DDG just looks like the little thin kid that can be bullied.

Spend some time in the gym, get bigger. It can't hurt.
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Agree. That's his flaw and it will get exposed every now and then and cost us till he rectified it. He's talented and has put in some quality performances but his presence is a bit poor. Like you say, vds wasn't physically the hugest (not height) but he owned the area most of the time. Yesterday was frankly a bit laughable. Hope he works hard on this and grows into the keeper he can be.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I agree, he has had some decent performances, but as the weeks go by, I just have more and more doubts upon watching him that he is good enough. I hope he proves me wrong, but the mistakes are there for all to see, and I'm sorry if people want to ignore the price, but at £20,000,000 I don't think it was expected by anyone at United that he would make so many errors. (I use the term 'so many' delicately - obviously it's just halfway through the season, but still a lot (imo) but it's the type of mistakes that worry me more than the quantity).
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He's had a few bad games, but the exception of yesterday I think most of them were at the start of the season. For me, I've seen enough development this season to make me think he could be a permanent fixture for us in the future, and a decent one at that.

Obviously there are issues that have to be dealt with. Why was he so rusty yesterday after a few games out? Why does he struggle so much in physical situations? etc. etc. But I felt like those issues were slowly being dealt with as he was getting better with each performance (ignoring yesterday). If he bulks up and gets over some of his mental issues, I think his performances have already shown a fair bit of potential.

As for the money, I think that reflects the potential and relevant factors such as his age. It's a gamble to invest so much money on the promise of future riches, and I think we always knew that time would need to be invested as well. Quite the opposite to the normal expensive signings which usually expect an instant impact e.g. Torres :lol:
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
if people want to ignore the price, but at £20,000,000 I don't think it was expected by anyone at United that he would make so many errors. .
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Ignoring the fee, anyone who expected a 21 year old keeper from La Liga to not make any mistakes in his first season in the PL is an idiot.
 
Tim Howard fecked up a punch today when coming for a cross, no one said anything. Now if that was De Gea....
 
Eyepopper said:
I think those calling for him to be dropped in favour of Lindegaard are....
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Im not going to walk into the minfield of DDG vs Lindegaard - I am happy we have two excellent GK.

A GK can make 10 brilliant saves and then one mistake and its the mistake thats always mentioned - its a tought life of a GK.
 
Also, goalkeepers used to be over-protected by refs; now, opponents are allowed to crowd the 'keeper before set-pieces (as Hernandez does for us) - this is surely obstruction but, like so many things (shirt-pulling, shielding the ball out of play etc etc), refs let this go.
 
Eyepopper said:
I think thats rubbish.

Who are these young keepers that dont make mistakes? Do you think his mistakes may be highlighted more than others because he's replacing VDS at Utd and cost 20million?

His most worrying errors are when faced with big physical players, something which is pretty new to him, you dont get the same type of challenge in La Liga.
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I think I need to put more emphasis on the fact that it's the type of errors that he makes, and not the quantity. I don't doubt that his mistakes are highlighted more because of the reasons you mentioned either.

Joe Hart & Wojciech Szczęsny are good examples of young keepers who perform well. Before anyone says it - I know Wojciech Szczęsny had his moments before - but imo his errors were definitely communication-based and he looks terrific now he is familiar with his defenders.

The type of errors that I notice when observing DDG are positional and territorial which worry me a lot. Obviously it is possible for him to improve, but I see no evidence that suggests he will become such a top goalkeeper other than just hoping.
 
Decotron said:
Play kids, they make mistakes always have and always will do. The lad is natural talent who we should be delighted to have.
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Not according to VIM... apparently there are plenty of young keepers who dont make mistakes... still waiting for him to name them.
 
Eyepopper said:
Ignoring the fee, anyone who expected a 21 year old keeper from La Liga to not make any mistakes in his first season in the PL is an idiot.
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Please do not put such ludicrous claims upon me. Of course I don't expect him to make 'no mistakes'. See my above post for my view on his 'errors'.
 
SteveJ said:
Also, goalkeepers used to be over-protected by refs; now, opponents are allowed to crowd the 'keeper before set-pieces (as Hernandez does for us) - this is surely obstruction but, like so many things (shirt-pulling, shielding the ball out of play etc etc), refs let this go.
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Also lets not forget where De Gea is coming from. In Spain you're barely allowed to touch the goalie without it being deemed a foul. His experience up until now has all been in a league where, 9 times out of a 10, if the goalie comes for the ball and gets touched he gets a free kick. De Gea hasn't needed to be good in the air because he hasn't really been challenged and the Spanish have a preference for tiki taka over the high ball into the box so its not a skill he's needed. He's a great shot stopper but it'll take him a long while to learn a new habit. He buggered up yesterday simple as but he'll learn and grow from it given time. For now I'd choose Lindegaard over him in the physical games like Wolves and Blackburn and keep De Gea for the games against the slicker teams like Arsenal who aren't going to be pumping it into the box.
 
Eyepopper said:
Not according to VIM... apparently there are plenty of young keepers who dont make mistakes... still waiting for him to name them.
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Now you are just becoming childish. It's fine if you disagree with my points, after all they are just my opinions. However, if you simply fail to understand them (maybe just as much my fault for not explaining correctly), then don't try to put false views into my mouth to somehow make your opinion seem greater, it's plain childish to do so.

Where did I state that no young players should make ANY type of mistakes? I'm happy to agree to disagree, but there is no need for that.
 
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