We have a busy period coming up so not too surprised to see him rested. We have to keep in mind De Gea is used to having a winter break as well.
David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances
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all I can say is when either Lindegaard or De Gea are played I don't feel nervous.
They both make the occasional mistakes. But both are excellent.
They both make the occasional mistakes. But both are excellent.
These are two of the worst posts that have been made in a while.
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I haven't played in goal much, but I'm well aware the ones directly above your head are some of the most difficult to save. I could explain exactly why if you'd like.
Sammy, I couldn't have said it better myself!
i've got no problem with lindegaard whatsoever, but de gea is obviously still the better one. i always prefer de gea especially for away games, because of his composure and kicking of course. hope he will return for the west ham game.
This is what I'm talking about. De Gea is the only goalkeeper in the world who would have a side-foot shot from the edge of the area described as "point blank" at "blistering pace".
By your logic, Lindegaard should have saved Pilkington's header
I've watched this vid 5 times now. If you can't tell how fast that's going, get your eyes checked.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/andreas-weimann-aston-villa-v-manchester-united/
Posts that show the member who wrote have no clue about real football.
kieto is specially stupid IMO for blaming DDG cause he couldn't save Wiemann's first goal.It was impossible to save because he saw it late and the pace of the strike was too much.
Something so simple that even my 12 years old cousin came up with the same conclusion.
FFS Orduck, I like you as a poster but this.
Lindegaard a superior keeper than De Gea, I think that even Lindegaard doesn't believe it.
The shots that go far away from you are the ones that are the most difficult to save. Shots that go within arms reach are the easiest.
Pilkington's header was an extremely high header which dipped after it had gone past Lindegaard. It would have been extremely difficult to save.
It's going pretty fast, but it's far from being unsaveable considering it's within arm's reach of the goalkeeper.
"Impossible to save", Jesus Christ. We'll put that in the category with "point blank", "feck all errors", "exceptional form all season" and the requirement for DDG to be "superhuman" to actually react to a shot for completely hyperbolic shit far removed from reality.
Why are you even bringing what children say into the conversation? I'm sure if I were so inclined I could find some 12 year old who would say De Gea should save shots directly above his head, and agree with my conclusion because it is so simple. It's meaningless.
What's your explanation for Ferguson continually dropping De Gea?
Wow, say you don't like Scholes and you get a pat on the back. Slag Nani off and you might get in a bit of hot water, even moreso with Anderson. But dare to suggest that Lindegaard is the better goalkeeper than De Gea at the moment (which, shockingly, Fergie seems to agree with) and you get jumped on by the fan brigade.
De Gea pulls off some great saves, but also - repeatedly - fecks up. That might well be a youth thing, and he'll develop past it (I hope so) but at the moment Lindegaard is better. He's much more solid and much more confident. feck me, does everyone here have a massive blindspot to the fact that De Gea is still a gigantic liability at dealing with crosses? Some people on these forum are absolutely beyond belief. They'll defend Nani and De Gea to the last, whilst in the same breath screaming blue murder at Scholes and Giggs.
De Gea pulls off some great saves, but also - repeatedly - fecks up. That might well be a youth thing, and he'll develop past it (I hope so) but at the moment Lindegaard is better. He's much more solid and much more confident. feck me, does everyone here have a massive blindspot to the fact that De Gea is still a gigantic liability at dealing with crosses? Some people on these forum are absolutely beyond belief. They'll defend Nani and De Gea to the last, whilst in the same breath screaming blue murder at Scholes and Giggs.
De Gea plays far more than Lindegaard, on what basis could you possibly think Fergie prefers the Dane?
I'm bringing up a child conversation because he made think that he understands football better than you.It may have been just above his head but he couldn't react in time cause the pace was too much, how hard is it to understand ? SAF loves his rotation, it's been happening since both of DDG and Lindegaard are the club.It doesn't reveal much about who he rates more than the other.
Lindegaard has made 8 appearances this season with 6 in the League, De Gea has made 11, also with 6 in the League.
It's not a question of understanding football, it's a question of living inside or outside a bubble in which every De Gea mistake or lapse is retroactively altered to being completely unavoidable, and every game he plays is described as exceptional. Your 12 year old probably agreed with you because either A) You brow beat him into it by constantly telling him how great De Gea is or B) because he couldn't be arsed arguing with you.
If Ferguson is putting an older inferior goalkeeper in the team for nearly half of our matches in order to satiate a love for rotation rather than because he thinks he's better then I'd question his sanity. He has never rotated goalkeepers when one of them was clearly better than the other in his career, the only rational explanation is that he thinks Lindegaard is better but doesn't want to hurt De Gea's development too much by making him a bench warmer.
If he thought he was better, wouldn't he be playing him for the majority of games? The pro-Lindegaard faction claims De Gea's only being played to protect his development, and the pro-De Gea faction claim Lindegaard's only playing because Fergie has decided to rotate his keepers.
Seems to me like Fergie rates them about the same right now.
Yep I agree with this but its clear DDG has the higher ceiling and will shoot ahead in the next few seasons if his learning curve stays on track.
Agreed. And that's no slight on Lindegaard. De Gea's high ceiling is very high indeed.
Why would Ferguson decide to rotate his keepers if one of them is equal or superior to the other and younger? Has he ever done that before? Are there any examples of competent managers doing that? It doesn't make any sense. Playing an inferior goalkeeper in about half of our games to aid his development, on the other hand, makes quite a lot of sense.
Does he?
I think they're both at a very similar level. De Gea is more capable of the sublime than Anders but Anders is a more steady all rounder.
If two keepers are equally good, how does it not make sense to play them both? You keep them both relatively match fit and ensure they both develop and gain experience, rather than putting all your eggs in one basket. Seems fairly logical to me.
Which I rate higher in a goalkeeper, personally. It's all very well De Gea pulling out stunningly good saves that no one else could make, but when he makes errors that other 'keepers (like Lindegaard) wouldn't, then it's a big problem.
I think De Gea has the potential to be better than Lindegaard, and he's so young that saying he's not better now is no slight on him - he has plenty of time to develop.
But for the moment, Llindegaard is the better goalkeeper. As kietotheworld says, if Lindegaard were both inferior and older, why the hell would Fergie be playing him so much?
As has been pointed out in this thread ad nauseum by De Gea's fanatics, his upper level is much higher, his potential is much greater, he's a lot more likely to improve than Lindegaard and rotating goalkeepers isn't helpful to them building good relationships with defenders or building up confidence.
That may well be the case. But that doesnt mean it doesnt make sense to play both as well. There are arguments for both courses of action, you make your choice. But the argument for playing both is they both develop and you have a better second keeper - and a second keeper that has established his own understanding with the defenders.
I would suggest it demonstrates SAF is not 100% sure which keeper is going to make it.
I would suggest it demonstrates SAF is not 100% sure which keeper is going to make it.
How much do you expect Lindegaard to develop at his age? He's 28, how many goalkeepers actually improve from that age on?
I completely disagree with you. It's not that De Gea mistakes has cost us that much point, while on the other side his fabtastic saves saved us some points in both seasons. On the other side Lindegaard is pretty average at everything, is a good backup keeper for a team like United but never as good as to be a starter.
I don't think that Anders is a better keeper, what has he done so far to suggest it? SAF is doing what he's doing, not saying that I am smarter than him but I think that he is not doing the right thing by rotating them, and I think that SAF has make keeper's mistakes in past many times (rotating Howard and Carroll, choosing to sign Barthez before Toldo and Buffon because he was a better player, Taibi etc). Every time De Gea has a run of games he shines. Anyway, it is very possible that SAF in fact is not dropping him, but more protecting him from the media and resting him sometimes.
I would expect him to improve a bit, playing in a better league. But mostly I would expect him to forge an understanding with the defenders he plays behind, which you cant do while sitting on the bench.
Actually kietotheworld, shots close and hard to you can be awkward to deal with as a GK if you don't position yourself right. Just because it's close to you, doesn't make it a more feasible save than if it was at knee height and a bit away from you. Would have required a strong hand to keep that shot out in any case and in that scenario, he would have had to anticipate where it was going. That's how fast the shot was.
I'd expect quite a bit of improvement yet. 28 is no age for a 'keeper.
Not keen on this latest turnaround. De Gea was starting to look the part last season when he was left our for a couple of PL matches, and when he returned he didn't look too good (that Blackburn match). Now, just after those very encouraging last few minutes at Villa, he suffers from misfortune from those wisdom teeth, but now he's fit again and he's still benched. He doesn't need a rest. He needs continuity. So does our defence.
Nobody in our team bar a few players get continuity, which is a shame. De Gea was playing well before he missed the Norwich game. The only players that have been regulars so far this season are Rafael, Evra, Rio, Carrick and RVP. Our keeper changes all the time, half of our defence was out injured/in and out the side, the midfield is forever changing and likewise with the strikers (Rooney's injury played a part)
I just think Fergie likes rotation a bit too much.
I just think Fergie likes rotation a bit too much.
I specifically said "directly above your head" for a reason. I also said some of the most difficult to save.
There are plenty of factors that make it a difficult save that have been mentioned already, but the key is that the ball is travelling pretty much straight towards the eyes. This causes a keeper to dramatically lose a sense of depth perception and timing. Instead of seeing the ball travelling in 3-dimensions, they just see it rise and appear to change size. When the ball is hit with power from open play, those extra milliseconds of reaction time lost are significant.
It's the reason why keepers often end up saving the ball with their face, despite having the hands pretty much next to it.
Additionally, when reaction times are crucial, expectation combines with the other factors. A goalkeeper would expect the ball to go towards the 45% of the goal to his right, or the 45% of the goal to his right, or the 7% of the goal his body covers. Not the 3% above his head.
DDG is clearly the better all round keeper at the moment.
Strength is only one aspect of being a goalkeeper, granted its a bit more important in the premier league and its where DDG needs his biggest adjustment. But in every other aspect he's as good or better than Lindegaard. Shot stopping, kicking, positioning is no worse. Lindegaard is just a bit more comfortable catching the ball out of the air under a physical challenge.
Strength is only one aspect of being a goalkeeper, granted its a bit more important in the premier league and its where DDG needs his biggest adjustment. But in every other aspect he's as good or better than Lindegaard. Shot stopping, kicking, positioning is no worse. Lindegaard is just a bit more comfortable catching the ball out of the air under a physical challenge.
It's a reasonable concern, Amir, but I wouldn't worry too much. De Gea showed the fire in his belly as he endured the mindless shit he took from the British media and even some United supporters, and he came back fantastically. A few week off will do him no harm at all and may even do him some good.
Meanwhile, there's been a lot of keeper bungling going on in the English prem this season with hardly a word written about it by the morons who write their shit in the British tabloids.
De Gea's main flaw of not being able to deal with crosses is there for all to see, but what we need to remember is, De Gea came from Spanish football where crosses into the box aren't as prevelant as they are in England and certainly not at the physical level that they are in England. It's all new to him, and in that sense he's miles behind even someone like Jack Butland in terms of ability to deal with crosses, even though De Gea has more top flight experience. Even Iker Casillas, whom most people rate as the best goalkeeper in the world, looks suspect when dealing with crosses.
Ironically, De Gea will probably start on Wednesday and this may be game that it would've been a good idea to play Lindegaard instead.
Ironically, De Gea will probably start on Wednesday and this may be game that it would've been a good idea to play Lindegaard instead.
Right enough, West Ham's a horrible game for any keeper never mind one with De Gea's frailties. I'm pretty sure that this whole rotation game is in large part just part of a character-building exercise and perhaps throwing him in at the deep end against Big Sam's side would be the biggest test he could come up against - if he could come out on top against them he can do it against anyone. Lindegaard is in no way a better keeper and he's not even much more reliable than De Gea. He did seem to be in his first 12 months but it's pretty clear he's not all that. He's just keeping Lindegaard in the mix to keep him happy and competitive so that he can keep De Gea on his toes, IMO. Though I don't like it at all personally.
Theres no way Lindegaard will end up being our number 1 keeper. De Gea has the potential to be the best in the world. He already is by far the best shot stopper of the league. He needs to improve additional parts of his game but thats only experience. Lindegaard will eventually have to assume his role just as Kuszak did.
I think most young keepers in Europe just now struggle with crosses. It seems to be that keepers are becoming much better shot stoppers but not as good in the air. Hart struggles, Szczesny struggles and so does De Gea.
Pogue made a good point on that last year that it probably has something to do with the fact that goalkeepers have to be better footballers nowadays following the change in the backpass rule - in 1992, so De Gea's one of the first generations to grow up with it - so they're focussing more of their time on their footwork and spending less time being nasty bastards, sticking their knees and elbows out and bullying the outfield players. Seems plausible.
Anyone else thinks that kietotheworld is Lindegaard himself posting on the caf?
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