I'm surprised on how we can debate on an OG being the Goalies fault. To be honest, you have to blame the whole defence for not attacking the ball and probably blame the opposition for whacking in a damn good cross and maybe blame DDG for not being able to save Rooney's OG header which I wouldn't expect even Buffon or Casillas to save.
David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances
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Hmmm I would love if he exposed himself he is kind of cute in a Latin kind of way
In the Telegraph now. Real Madrid want him. If we lose him, I'd be so fecking pissed off.
Far too early. But when Madrid and Barcelona are in need of a new number one, you can be sure his name will be near the top of the list. And that would probably be after we've developed his game for England.
This thread since the last game has been disgraceful.
I've never seen such ill-informed nonsense spewed in a thread for a long time.
De gea was not responsible for the goal.
If he went for the punch, with the speed of the cross, the number of players between him and the ball and height of the ball which meant it could have been headed in before it got to him. He most certainly would not have reached the ball to punch.
I've never seen such ill-informed nonsense spewed in a thread for a long time.
De gea was not responsible for the goal.
If he went for the punch, with the speed of the cross, the number of players between him and the ball and height of the ball which meant it could have been headed in before it got to him. He most certainly would not have reached the ball to punch.
Exactly. How people can claim that he "could take a step forward" and reach it is complete garbage. A delivery and that speed and along the 6 yard box has to be dealt with by defenders. It wasn't and De Gea could do nothing about it.
What an inane post. How can you anticipate the ball breaching the first line of defence when your defender doesn't jump for the ball???
Also the fact that Rooney was actually there in a position to clear surely suggests the defending players were at fault.
I'm sick of this micro-analysis of De Gea every fecking time.
Even Paddy Crerand, staunch defender of United players, was suggesting De Gea should have come for the ball.
I say let the boy play out his mistakes and get better and better.
Which player in the world doesn't make mistakes?
Smells like bullshit to me...
http://www.football365.com/transfer-gossip/8188408/Your-Tuesday-Gossip
That's the first I've heard of De Gea being homesick. Though it wouldn't surprise me if he was (especially looking out of the window this morning!)... still think it's bullshit mind.
F365 said:
http://www.football365.com/transfer-gossip/8188408/Your-Tuesday-Gossip
That's the first I've heard of De Gea being homesick. Though it wouldn't surprise me if he was (especially looking out of the window this morning!)... still think it's bullshit mind.
This is why we should only sign Scandinavians and North Europeans, they dont get homesick.
Or Bebe's.
If he takes a step off his line, he'd look stupid if someone gets a simple flick on into the middle of the goal. Come on, people are picking holes for no reason now. The height of the delivery is key
Agreed. The only reason anyone is talking about this is his handling of crosses is already under scrutiny. But this is not an example of him being weak on crosses. VDS could have done exactly the same as DDG did and nobody would have given it a second thought.
Every goal we concede is coming under scrutiny when he is playing, just look at the 2nd one, people even think he should have saved that when Kightly hammered it into the corner. De Gea almost pulled off a wonder save and if it came back off the post no doubt it would go down as one of the best saves of the season.
We complain that the media treat him a bit too harshly and you look at some posts and you realize there isn't much difference
To be fair every goal a United goalie concedes is under scrutiny at the Caf it's been that way here since 2001 when I first joined. The only exception to that rule is VDS and that's because he so rarely made a mistake.
You either didn't read or didn't understand my post, so let me try again.
The main culprit is Carrick who should have headed the ball away. This is clear. But even though Carrick is the one at fault, that doesn't mean that De Gea's actions no longer matter. He can still affect the situation and the probability of Stoke scoring by deciding whether or not to come off his line.
Now, the ball is coming into an area which is so close to the goal, that if a Stoke player gets a header on target, the only way De Gea is saving it is if the ball hits him. It's simply too close to goal for even someone with De Gea's reflexes to do anything about it. So if Nzonzi at the near post (in my previous post I mistakenly said it was Walters at the near post) gets a header on target, the probability of it being a goal is similar, regardless of whether De Gea is on his line or off his line, since De Gea's body can only cover a small fraction of the total goal.
However, the times that neither Carrick nor Nzonzi get a touch and the ball comes flying into the middle of the six yard box there is a big difference in the probability of Stoke scoring depending on whether De Gea is on his line or off it. If De Gea is already off his line and ready, I claim that he can claim that cross a very high percentage of the time, and that is the essence of the argument I presented. I claim that the benefit from De Gea claiming the crosses which bypass the first line of defence outweighs the benefit gained from De Gea being on his line and having a higher probability of saving 1. a potential Nzonzi header and 2. a potential Stoke or OG attempt. This is because the shot-stopping benefit, as determined earlier, is likely small, and the cross-claiming benefit, as determined earlier, is likely large, so that even though the cross clearing both Carrick and Nzonzi is an unexpected event, when you weight the actions based on probabilities of occurence I think the benefit of claiming the cross is large enough to compensate. I formulated this same argument into a couple expected value equations, but I think I've made my argument sufficiently clearly.
I know this is a simplified argument which ignores e.g. the benefit of staying on your line in e.g. situations where Carrick gets a small touch on the ball but only manages to flick the ball up in the air rather than heading it away, but I'm not convinced that that benefit is large enough to make a meaningful difference.
I see my argument as no different to one that says that goalkeepers should anticipate a penalty taker's decision by pre-emptively diving to one side. Sometimes you guess wrong and look like a fool, but on the whole you maximize your chances of saving the penalty by guessing. (Except that in actual fact goalkeepers dive way too often during penalties and would be better served by staying put. My choice of example was just to highlight the basic thought process that I'm trying to convey here.)
Now I'm not saying it's natural or possible for a goalkeeper to do this kind of analysis in the heat of the moment, and really there is only one goalkeeper - Neuer - whom I have seen doing this kind of "EV cross-claiming". I'm also not blaming De Gea for not doing it. But I am saying, that with the benefit of hindsight and time for analysis, I think the optimal action in this situation would have been to come out for the cross before De Gea even knew whether Carrick would head the ball clear.
As for your other points, again, I'm not criticizing or blaming him. I attach no value judgments here; I'm just thinking in general and analytical terms about the situation.
So expect him to be off his line? And if Nzonzi heads it the goal is pretty much open? ok.....
Or you expect him to react in the 0.005 seconds he had after both players missed the ball, the sort of reaction time that caused one of the best football brains in the World to head into his own goal? ok......
De Gea did the only thing he could do with such a good cross, doing anything else would have been idiotic, the cross simply wasn't high enough.
A keeper doesn't look like a fool when he dives the wrong way on a pen, but he looks a friggin idiot if he starts coming out for that and Nzonzi heads the ball into an empty goal.
I dont think I agree with this, although I admire the time taken to clearly explain your position.
On this occasion he didnt save it, and yes it was very close so it would always have been hard. But I disagree with the assertion that the only way he would have saved it is if it had come straight at him. It would have had to have been near him, yes, but I still think on balance of probabilities the best bet is stay on his line and hope for a wonderful, reaction save. Seems like, even playing the numbers game, that has a better chance of success than coming out to claim it there, at that height and with that number of people contesting it.
Very lucky tonight. Mistake could have cost us dearly
Defensive mistakes nearly did, otherwise he didn't have a great deal to do.
tbf to you, it wasn't his best game for United, but tbf to him I'd say it was a rare off game for him.
He seemed a bit off tonight, not really there..
made a mistake with a silly pass out but other than that he had nothing to do for the full match apart from pick the ball out of the net.
What did I miss, except for that bad pass? I think he did good(except for that pass of course)
I don't think his distribution was up to his normal standards. His kicks weren't reaching their man with the usual accuracy tonight.
Okay, agree with that, I though I missed something in his defending.
In general, maybe...but he made a great one to the right which cut through their fullback to reach Hernandez.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ants-to-go-home-and-play-for-Real-Madrid.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-United-goalkeeper.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I still think it's bollocks. Madrid might be interested, but I doubt he'd ever go there.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-United-goalkeeper.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I still think it's bollocks. Madrid might be interested, but I doubt he'd ever go there.
DDG is going to be one of the best keepers in the world. He's 21, basically a kid in keeper years.
He's got amazing reflexes / shot stopping abilities, his distribution is top notch. His aerial game though is weak. However, he hasn't benefitted from a settled back four. In fact, his rotations, along with the ever changing back four have hindered his progress.
DDG is better than Valdes, Reina for me, he will be the second keeper in Brazil 2014.
He's got amazing reflexes / shot stopping abilities, his distribution is top notch. His aerial game though is weak. However, he hasn't benefitted from a settled back four. In fact, his rotations, along with the ever changing back four have hindered his progress.
DDG is better than Valdes, Reina for me, he will be the second keeper in Brazil 2014.
As an aside, who are considered the best keepers in the world today? Casillas, Buffon, Cech, Hart, Neuer, Lloris…
- Casillas has amazing reflexes, superb positioning, aerial game is definitely weak. Prone to the odd mistake, amazing keeper overall.
- Buffon can make a mistake here and there, but the most well rounded keeper for me. He does have the benefit of a very steady defence (Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli etc) week in, week out. Crap at penalties though
- Hart has the benefit of a solid defensive setup, with Kompany, Lescott playing really well last year, and Barry, de Jong / Yaya providing another layer of protection. He does get the odd mistake though (Poland) but is currently the best in the PL.
- Neuer can look extra terrestrial one week, and distinctly average the next. Last year he made so many mistakes (Borussia Munchegladbach, Dortmund, Mainz) that cost Bayern valuable points. Very good shot stopper, great on crosses, but he suffers from arrogance and concentration lapses. Up and coming.
- Cech can look amazing one week, and poor the next. He was poor for large periods of the season last year, great towards the end. Again, it could be a function of a settled back four in front of him, and Chelsea parking the bus in the latter stages of the CL.
- Lloris, jury still out, haven't seen much of him in Ligue 1, his debut for Spurs was average, one clanger which almost led to a goal by Benteke.
As an aside, who are considered the best keepers in the world today? Casillas, Buffon, Cech, Hart, Neuer, Lloris…
- Casillas has amazing reflexes, superb positioning, aerial game is definitely weak. Prone to the odd mistake, amazing keeper overall.
- Buffon can make a mistake here and there, but the most well rounded keeper for me. He does have the benefit of a very steady defence (Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli etc) week in, week out. Crap at penalties though
- Hart has the benefit of a solid defensive setup, with Kompany, Lescott playing really well last year, and Barry, de Jong / Yaya providing another layer of protection. He does get the odd mistake though (Poland) but is currently the best in the PL.
- Neuer can look extra terrestrial one week, and distinctly average the next. Last year he made so many mistakes (Borussia Munchegladbach, Dortmund, Mainz) that cost Bayern valuable points. Very good shot stopper, great on crosses, but he suffers from arrogance and concentration lapses. Up and coming.
- Cech can look amazing one week, and poor the next. He was poor for large periods of the season last year, great towards the end. Again, it could be a function of a settled back four in front of him, and Chelsea parking the bus in the latter stages of the CL.
- Lloris, jury still out, haven't seen much of him in Ligue 1, his debut for Spurs was average, one clanger which almost led to a goal by Benteke.
On the basis of your(?) assessments, DDG should be in there too.
He'd be a massive improvement over Valdes, but don't see Barca paying anywhere close to our valuation.
He'd be sitting on the bench at Real.
Every other club would be a downgrade for him
He's in that same group, below Casillas and Buffon of course.
He will massively benefit from a steady back four, I can't stress that enough.
Real get rid of San Iker? More chance of Barca selling Messi.
How is Lloris even in the discussion? He's being rotated at a perennial Europa League side and has dropped far off his early promise at Lyon. There were days when Aulas would scoff in the media at even entertaining a £25m bid for him and he's sold him to Spurs for a third of that.
Cech's not the player he used to be and Hart is too prone to the odd clanger to be up there just yet.
bullshit, no quotes or nothing.
According to Guilleum Ballague, he switched to Mendez not because he wants to leave United, but because he wants better representation in the media and more protection from criticism.
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