Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?

finneh said:
As I said previously you are happy to disregard sub appearances etc but are failing to acknowledge the converse, that:

a) A lot of his starts are in the Carling or FA Cup against cannon fodder who afford him the time and space to unleash his shot (e.g. Southampton and Derby in FA Cup, also 4 goals in the Carling Cup)
b) Even the Premier League starts are likely to be against the lower teams (example when the league was already won and there was nothing to play for against Hull)

Disregarding these your asserion that he's "got 8 goals in 25 starts" suddenly gets put into perspective.
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He can't score against the big boys if he's not picked to play against them can he?

I've seen enough of Gibson to hold some hope.
 
Boss said:
I think everybody wants the lad to do well, why would anybody wish otherwise?

most people are being realistic about his options and whether he's good enough to put on our strip

mind you, I think Sir Alex sees something in him, he can be pretty decent on his day, he ahs potential

but so did the likes of Richardson
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There are a few who appear to want him to fail simply so they can be proved right.

They aren't what you would call supporters though are they.
 
finneh said:
As I said previously you are happy to disregard sub appearances etc but are failing to acknowledge the converse, that:

a) A lot of his starts are in the Carling or FA Cup against cannon fodder who afford him the time and space to unleash his shot (e.g. Southampton and Derby in FA Cup, also 4 goals in the Carling Cup)
b) Even the Premier League starts are likely to be against the lower teams (example when the league was already won and there was nothing to play for against Hull)

Disregarding these your asserion that he's "got 8 goals in 25 starts" suddenly gets put into perspective.
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Fixtures he scored in last season.

Tottenham Hostpur (two goals) - Carling Cup quarter-final
West Hame - PL away game
Bolton - PL away game
Bayern Munich - CL semi-final

Hardly cannon fodder or easy games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If my posts bore you, put me on ignore.

We're discussing Darron Gibson here, by the way, not me. If you have a problem with threads being derailed, maybe you should keep your own posts on topic? Just a thought.
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You can't be put on ignore.
 
golden_blunder said:
thats not what the coaching staff have been saying
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He needs to show it more often then.
His ability to strike the ball the way he does can be very useful and his long-range passing aint too bad neither.
If he is able to improve the other aspects of his game (especially his off-the ball movement ans positional awareness) he can make it here I suppose.
 
cw1984 said:
He can't score against the big boys if he's not picked to play against them can he?

I've seen enough of Gibson to hold some hope.
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He's not being picked for the big games because he isn't good enough to perform in them. If as Pogue asserted he was a goal-scoring midfielder who will get you a goal every three starts he'd be getting games.

Not to mention the countless chances he's been given in the league and failed to impress.
 
finneh said:
He's not being picked for the big games because he isn't good enough to perform in them. If as Pogue asserted he was a goal-scoring midfielder who will get you a goal every three starts he'd be getting games.

Not to mention the countless chances he's been given in the league and failed to impress.
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I'm not saying he should start, i'm just saying it's unfair to criticise him for only scoring against lesser teams and in lesser competitions if he only plays in said games and competitions.
 
Godfather said:
He needs to show it more often then.
His ability to strike the ball the way he does can be very useful and his long-range passing aint too bad neither.
If he is able to improve the aspects of his game (especiall his off-the ball movement ans positional awareness) he can make it here I suppose.
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I agree with that, its a fair assessment
 
Agree completely with Trap, which is hardly surprising, that he needs to be more mobile and work harder to get the ball back. Far too often he'll jog along and stay in space almost as if he's ready to receive a pass even when we don't have the ball. When he has it he's not bad, got a decent range of passing and we all know what his shooting can be like.

I'm sure working on the defensive side of his game can and will be done, i think he'll be here next season but that will probably be his last unless he shows signs that he's willing to work on his weaknesses.
 
finneh said:
He's not being picked for the big games because he isn't good enough to perform in them. If as Pogue asserted he was a goal-scoring midfielder who will get you a goal every three starts he'd be getting games.

Not to mention the countless chances he's been given in the league and failed to impress.
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he's started only 3 PL games this season, i'd hardly say thats countless
 
finneh said:
He's not being picked for the big games because he isn't good enough to perform in them. If as Pogue asserted he was a goal-scoring midfielder who will get you a goal every three starts he'd be getting games.

Not to mention the countless chances he's been given in the league and failed to impress.
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Being a top class central midfielder involves more than the ability to score goals on a regular basis. Gibson has an excellent shot and will always score goals. He's also not a bad passer of the ball. It's the other areas of his game which are lacking.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Fixtures he scored in last season.

Tottenham Hostpur (two goals) - Carling Cup quarter-final
West Hame - PL away game
Bolton - PL away game
Bayern Munich - CL semi-final

Hardly cannon fodder or easy games.
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Hah moving the goal posts again, not including sub appearances to make his record look better and then including sub appearances when looking at goals scored. Be consistant.

Also don't imply that the Tottenham game was similar to a league game this season. It was a comfortable win against a weakened side whilst playing Gibson, Welbeck, De Laet, Neville and an out of form Berbatov and Anderson.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're making shit up now. You said his record isn't that of a "regular goal-scorer". In fact, you made this same point a in a few different posts. I corrected you (aka "steam-rollered in" apparently). Re-read the posts if you don't believe me.

I couldn't give a toss whether or not he's "priceless" (however, that might be defined).

You're not very good at this, are you?
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Which he isn't. A player who scores 11 goals in 107 games isn't a regular goal scorer. You're not very good at this, are you?
 
I'm trying to think what Gerrard was like at aged 23, but then I think a couple of years later Gerrard was pulling a lacklustre Liverpool team to European glory so maybe it's a bad comparison.
 
finneh said:
Hah moving the goal posts again, not including sub appearances to make his record look better and then including sub appearances when looking at goals scored. Be consistant.

Also don't imply that the Tottenham game was similar to a league game this season. It was a comfortable win against a weakened side whilst playing Gibson, Welbeck, De Laet, Neville and an out of form Berbatov and Anderson.
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You implied he only scored against cannon fodder. I was just pointing out that this isn't true.

Not sure what point you're making about the Spurs game, to be honest. Shouldn't the fact he was playing alongside "Welbeck, De Laet, Neville and an out of form Berbatov and Anderson" make it more difficult to score?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was 19 years old at Antwerp, 20 years old at Wolves. Does that help to answer your question about why he wasn't starting?

Or perhaps you subscribe to the Scholesy school of idiocy, whereby young players are born as ready made Premier League footballers with no need to improve or develop their game whatsoever?
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Sorry, do you know whether he was starting for those teams or not? Did he make 33 sub appearances at Antwerp and 20 at Wolves? How many games would he need to start for his record to be considered poor?

Do you subscribe to the Chief school of throwing in facts you don't understand or may not exist to try and make your point?
 
acnumber9 said:
Which he isn't. A player who scores 11 goals in 107 games isn't a regular goal scorer. You're not very good at this, are you?
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You think it's fair to judge someone's ability to regularly score goals from midfield when most appearances are from the bench with 20mins to go?
 
acnumber9 said:
Sorry, do you know whether he was starting for those teams or not? Did he make 33 sub appearances at Antwerp and 20 at Wolves? How many games would he need to start for his record to be considered poor?

Do you subscribe to the Chief school of throwing in facts you don't understand or may not exist to try and make your point?
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I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here. Couldn't you at least try to make some sort of coherent point?

I mentioned his age when he was on loan at Wolves/Antwerp because he's improved since then. Hence, his goal-scoring record in the last couple of season is pertinent to a discussion about whether or not he is a regular goal-scorer but his record when he was 19/20 years old means feck all.

Bringing up the record from loan spells 3-5 years ago when we're discussing a 23 year old smacks of someone who is desperately clutching at straws to slag off a United player rather than conceding a simple point and moving on with the discussion.
 
Gibson is a tier below Scholes, Anderson, Carrick and Fletcher. It reflects in the number of games he starts. We cannot reasonably expect to have too many world class players as squad members. They would want to play more regularly. Squads need a balance of players who are learning the game, coming to the end of their careers, or on relatively low salaries.

If the management recognises another player has more potential and is willing to accept bit part role whilst learning the trade then Gibson will be moved on...but don't expect Kaka will be his direct replacement.
 
cw1984 said:
You think it's fair to judge someone's ability to regularly score goals from midfield when most appearances are from the bench with 20mins to go?
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I'm asking whether he has shown in his career that he can score goals regularly? His record doesn't suggest it. It's no less fair to suggest he's not a regular/great goalscorer based on his career to date that is to say he is a regular scorer.

I would find it hard to believe that Gibson made 33 sub appearances at Royal Antwerp and 21 at Wolves? I've also asked what his scoring record was like at reserve level. I don't see a player who regularly gets himself into good goalscoring positions. He's got a good long shot when it comes off. That doesn't make him a good goal scoring midfielder. He just doesn't have that knack that Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard etc, or any good goalscorer has of getting themselves on the end of loose balls in the box and regularly chip in with goals. I can think of one goal of that type Gibson has scored for Utd.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here. Couldn't you at least try to make some sort of coherent point?

I mentioned his age when he was on loan at Wolves/Antwerp because he's improved since then. Hence, his goal-scoring record in the last couple of season is pertinent to a discussion about whether or not he is a regular goal-scorer but his record when he was 19/20 years old means feck all.

Bringing up the record from loan spells 3-5 years ago when we're discussing a 23 year old smacks of someone who is desperately clutching at straws to slag off a United player rather than conceding a simple point and moving on with the discussion.
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Have a look back at the posts that are being talked about and read them again. Only this time try and understand them.
 
What makes you think the club haven't already decided that his time is basically up?
 
acnumber9 said:
I'm asking whether he has shown in his career that he can score goals regularly? His record doesn't suggest it. It's no less fair to suggest he's not a regular/great goalscorer based on his career to date that is to say he is a regular scorer.

I would find it hard to believe that Gibson made 33 sub appearances at Royal Antwerp and 21 at Wolves? I've also asked what his scoring record was like at reserve level. I don't see a player who regularly gets himself into good goalscoring positions. He's got a good long shot when it comes off. That doesn't make him a good goal scoring midfielder. He just doesn't have that knack that Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard etc, or any good goalscorer has of getting themselves on the end of loose balls in the box and regularly chip in with goals. I can think of one goal of that type Gibson has scored for Utd.
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All three of those players are different in the way they score goals. Scholes has a cracking shot from range but his trademark has been late runs into the box. Gerrard is similar to Scholes but more likely to create chances for himself by running with the ball from deep. Lampard is similar to Gibson in that he doesn't score many from inside the box but is a real threat from range.

All three of them are far better players than Gibson will ever be but I don;t know why you're so determined to dismiss his ability to pose a real threat on goal from outside the box. It's just so obvious that this is a real strength to his game.

As many others keep saying, though, it takes more than a decent shot to be a top central midfielder.
 
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