Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
with a certain amount of tongue in cheek dear fellow
if you dont think that the suggestion to sell Gerrard was not tongue in cheek then maybe i dont know my own posts
basically, it was my post so i disagree with your disagreement.
The Chief was saying McCarthy was the only person who labelled Gibson lazy. Clearly Trappatoni was hinting at that exact same thing.
Where is he 'hinting at the exact same thing'?
'He can do more' doesn't mean he thinks Gibson is lazy.
I don't think it is a case of replacing him with someone else that'd be happy being a 5th choice. I think it is about replacing him with someone with the potential to be a first choice in the future. Whether it be a current player in our reserves or on loan, or a player at another club.
When we try to sign players we don't say to them "are you going to be happy being 5th choice on the bench?" We are more likely to say that they will be given upteen opportunities to prove themselves at the best team in the world, replacing the likes of Giggs/Scholes when they retire.
Any midfielder outside the top 5-6 teams in the world would come to us on that basis, after we sign them it is up to them to prove they aren't going to be 5th choice for the rest of their career.
/edit: when do you actually think we've signed a player on the basis that they will be a bench warmer for the medium-long term?
Again, he's not going to come out and say he's lazy. If you read what he's saying though it more than incinuates that this is the case:
"Darron is fantastic when he has the ball but when he finishes an offensive action, he needs to continue to be involved. Sometimes he just looks on because, at United, he is used to them getting the ball back. I said to him that if you lose the ball, you must continue. When you pass the ball, the play is not finished. At 21 I was running 5k or 8k. It’s not about radical change..."
I take that as "at United he thinks the other players will do the work for him when he hasn't got the ball, so he doesn't bother."
Yes, though they are probably not told that during talks
Forlan for example was never going to dislodge Ruud from the team
If Forlan showed the talent he has done for Athletico or Uruguay for us he would still be in the squad and would probably be in the first team.
Again if he had really done the business (after being given plenty of opportunities) we may have put him with Ruud and may not have bought the likes of Rooney, who knows in football. To say he was bought to warm the bench is naive at best (especially after the size of his transfer fee at the time).
Straw man well and truly strung up and lynched.
I think, or I would like to think, that if a player is playing well enough to consistently get a game in the team that he will play regardless of who has to be left out as a result.
In my honest opinion, if Forlan had of shown a bit more when he did play then he would have played more.
we pretty much played 1 up top at the time, he wasn't going to dislodge Ruud in a month of Sunday's. Ruud was the top striker in European football at the time
you can talk around that anyway you like, Fergie knew he was buying a good backup player
I dont see why there is so much discussion, if United want to be the best club in the world, then Darron Gibson is not going to be a part of a 25 man squad given his current abilities. That's not a shot at Gibson, it's just how I feel about this situation. He has done himself well and scored some goals for the club, but has continually shown he isnt good enough for United.
People are saying that he is not reaching his full potential due to the fact that he isn't playing regularly enough. That's fair enough.
Realistically though, barring a massive injury crisis, I can't see him getting such a run of games that is going to lead him to reach the potential that most believe he has. He is most likely going to be right down the bottom of our list of central midfield choices.
When is he going to get the chance to improve?
Realistically though, barring a massive injury crisis, I can't see him getting such a run of games that is going to lead him to reach the potential that most believe he has. He is most likely going to be right down the bottom of our list of central midfield choices.
When is he going to get the chance to improve?
I really cant see why people keep on comparing Gibson with Fletch. Ok the Scot used to be a bit cack in the beginning and after one brilliant season he isnt exactly doing very well at the moment. On the other hand you know that whatever happens to Fletch, no matter how his current form is, he'll always work hard for the team. Gibson is slow and workrate wise he makes Ronaldinho look like Roy Keane. Players like him can either dazzle with class or....
Is that the full quote that was posted? Go back and look again at the point where he says he's used to playing for Utd where we win the ball back quicker and how he needs to run more.
I have no doubt that the reason we played one up top most of the time during the three main seasons that he was with us (02-03, 03-04, 04-05) was because Yorke/Cole had just left and Solskjaer was injured plagued. In my opinion Fergie has always wanted to play 4-4-2 if possible and he would have played Forlan with Ruud (given that he spent a sizeable amount on him at the time), with Ruud probably playing alone for the big games.
The discussion is moot anyway because:
a) In his two main seasons he got 50~ appearances, plenty to establish himself as an asset to the team; and
b) He didn't impress so we can't judge whether or not Fergie signed him to warm the bench.
Gerrard was in poor form at this time. I do not believe you.
Not a Tweet, so offtopic I guess but there's a new (I think) interview with him at:
Rio - on Management, the United family, Obama, Leeds, toughest opponents and with comments on his teammates, present and past.
Rio Ferdinand On Pressure, Management and Playing Abroad | Football & Sport | Sabotage Times
Rio's always an entertaining interviewee and this one's got a few gems - like Nicky Butt telling him, before he signed for us, that United's a bigger deal than England.
Rio - on Management, the United family, Obama, Leeds, toughest opponents and with comments on his teammates, present and past.
Rio Ferdinand On Pressure, Management and Playing Abroad | Football & Sport | Sabotage Times
Rio's always an entertaining interviewee and this one's got a few gems - like Nicky Butt telling him, before he signed for us, that United's a bigger deal than England.
form is temporary, class is permanent
which is fair comment..
on one hand, it was obvious that given a run of games last season, he did show improvement
on the other hand, he's only started 3 PL games this season so he's gone backwards again
personally, i'd say now that the best thing for his career is to find a club that will offer regular football. Regardless of whether United give him games or not, a lot of United fans have already made up their minds and will not give him a break no matter what he may do from here on
No, there was nothing in your post to show it was tongue in cheek. It looked like a normal post and you probably have not seen Delfouneso play.
My view is that as a very experienced and succesful manager Fergie can tell when a player has the talent, and attitude to succeed at the top level.
The fact that he's not in the team very often speaks volumes.
Not all players coming through teh youth team will be good enough. Simple as that. He's getting the odd game because we're short in midfield.
I remember writing off Fletcher in the same way I find myself doing with 'Gibbo'.
It took Fletcher a good few years, but I think it's safe to say in proved many of us wrong and Fergie very much right.
Gibson must being doing something on the training field to find himself in our first team squad.
It might not be too popular, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got another year.
It took Fletcher a good few years, but I think it's safe to say in proved many of us wrong and Fergie very much right.
Gibson must being doing something on the training field to find himself in our first team squad.
It might not be too popular, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got another year.
What's with the annoying habit of instructing posters to 'go back and read it again' every second post?
I've just looked at 5 papers online to find a quote from Trapattoni this last week which corresponds with what you're saying and there are none.
I think you've confused yourself - he mentioned in September 2010 that a move away from United would improve Gibson's 'hunger'. I'd love to have seen Fergie's face when he heard Trapattoni questioning one of his players hunger.
It's related to other posters annoying habits of not understanding what they're debating. Post 2851 on this page contains the quote I was referring too.
It makes you come across as a bit of a cock. Fair enough though, although it's not quite the same as implying Trapattoni described him as 'lazy'.
Disagreeing with someone when you don't know what you're talking about doesn't really paint you in too great a light yourself. I'll get over it though. I said when you read between the lines he basically saying he's lazy. What would be your understanding of what was meant.
he'll be gone in the summer I feel.
He has not been awful. But he does not bring that something extra.
He has not been awful. But he does not bring that something extra.
This!
I hope Gibson can find a club and a manager who believes in him. At his age he needs to play regularly, and at United it's not going to happened.
SAF believes in him to some degree or he wouldn't play, he just doesn't think he is good enough to play that often because he has several better options.
You were all wrong about Fletcher for starters. A player the coaches clearly believed in and the vast majority of fans and pundits didn't.
What of Berbtaov who many vilified for 2 years now he is the latest hero?
Nani too.
Straw man my arse. All this talk that Gibson offers nothing is strawman bs.
Exactly. If our midfield was in now the sorry state it was in when Fletcher broke through Gibson would be getting many more games.
Way to miss the point. Typical.
Just to confirm the point I was making yesterday about him being a regular goal-scorer. Just found some more detailed stats on the excellent stretfordend website.
THE WEBSITE OF DREAMS
These are for his entire United career:
Premier League
3 goals in 10 starts
FA Cup
2 goals in 4 starts
League Cup
3 goals in 9 starts
Champions League
1 goal in 5 starts
Total
9 goals in 28 starts i.e. 0.32 goals/game
Paul Scholes = 150 in 543 i.e. 0.28 goals/game
Darren Fletcher = 21 in 228 i.e. 0.09 goals/game
Michael Carrick = 17 in 179 i.e. 0.09 goals/game
Paul Ince = 29 in 276 i.e. 0.10 goals/game
Roy Keane = 51 in 458 i.e. 0.11 goals/game
Bryan Robson = 99 in 427 i.e. 0.23 goals/game
Say what you like about the weaknesses in Gibson's game (and they're not hard to spot) his goal return from central midfield is excellent. Which is a good quality to have.
Now wait and see how long it takes for some gimp to say I'm trying to claim he's as good as Keane, Robson or Scholes...
THE WEBSITE OF DREAMS
These are for his entire United career:
Premier League
3 goals in 10 starts
FA Cup
2 goals in 4 starts
League Cup
3 goals in 9 starts
Champions League
1 goal in 5 starts
Total
9 goals in 28 starts i.e. 0.32 goals/game
Paul Scholes = 150 in 543 i.e. 0.28 goals/game
Darren Fletcher = 21 in 228 i.e. 0.09 goals/game
Michael Carrick = 17 in 179 i.e. 0.09 goals/game
Paul Ince = 29 in 276 i.e. 0.10 goals/game
Roy Keane = 51 in 458 i.e. 0.11 goals/game
Bryan Robson = 99 in 427 i.e. 0.23 goals/game
Say what you like about the weaknesses in Gibson's game (and they're not hard to spot) his goal return from central midfield is excellent. Which is a good quality to have.
Now wait and see how long it takes for some gimp to say I'm trying to claim he's as good as Keane, Robson or Scholes...
John O'Shea = Shit.
Darren Fletcher = Shit.
Park Ji-Sung = Shit.
Darron Gibson = Shit.
Johnny Evans = Shit.
Micheal Carrick = Shit.
Dimi Berbatov used to = Shit.
Wayne Rooney these days = Shit.
Nani used to = Shit.
Hell, if Caftards had their way we wouldn't even be able to name a full squad.
Now I am in no way implying I think that Gibson is good enough to cut it at United but there are quite a few other elements to consider like:
i) Fletcher - did he not prove that players CAN actually improve, with belief and hard work?
ii) John O'Shea - yeah, he is NOT good enough for our first XI, IMO. But we need SQUAD players and how many titles has O'Shea won, whilst contributing at United?
Yes, Gibson frustrates the hell out of me when he plays, especially with his positioning and lack of presence in midfield. I do not personally think that he is going to cut it as a FIRST XI player (there could be a squad place for him), but I am hoping he proves me wrong. If I am correct in my hunch though, I wish the lad well elsewhere but the manner in which some of you are slating him, one would say he hasn't contributed anything to the club.
Darren Fletcher = Shit.
Park Ji-Sung = Shit.
Darron Gibson = Shit.
Johnny Evans = Shit.
Micheal Carrick = Shit.
Dimi Berbatov used to = Shit.
Wayne Rooney these days = Shit.
Nani used to = Shit.
Hell, if Caftards had their way we wouldn't even be able to name a full squad.
Now I am in no way implying I think that Gibson is good enough to cut it at United but there are quite a few other elements to consider like:
i) Fletcher - did he not prove that players CAN actually improve, with belief and hard work?
ii) John O'Shea - yeah, he is NOT good enough for our first XI, IMO. But we need SQUAD players and how many titles has O'Shea won, whilst contributing at United?
Yes, Gibson frustrates the hell out of me when he plays, especially with his positioning and lack of presence in midfield. I do not personally think that he is going to cut it as a FIRST XI player (there could be a squad place for him), but I am hoping he proves me wrong. If I am correct in my hunch though, I wish the lad well elsewhere but the manner in which some of you are slating him, one would say he hasn't contributed anything to the club.
Damn you.
That's bumped my extensively researched stats to the foot of the previous page
That's bumped my extensively researched stats to the foot of the previous page
Good research!