Gary Neville or Le Tissier....who would you prefer in your team?
I'd have Nev every time.
Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Gary Neville or Le Tissier....who would you prefer in your team?
I'd have Nev every time.
So you keep saying.
You're wrong though.
Last season he started 14 games (in all competitions) and scored 5 goals.
That's a goal every 2.8 games.
Last season Steven Gerrard started 53 games (in all competitions) and scored 14 goals.
That's a goal every 3.8 games.
Steven Gerrard doesn't shoot every time he gets his foot on the ball though. and let's be serious here, last year was the first season in quite some time where Gerrard hasn't been very prolific with goals. Paul Scholes never did either. I bet their goals to shots ratio is miles better than Gibsons.
Gibson has a good shot, the problem is that at times he just doesn't know when to use the fecking thing. At times you see him shoot and you just know it'll get blocked by a defender, or it's from an angle or stance that it's nigh on impossible for him to get it on target. He literally shoots any time he gets sight of goal and it's so fecking frustrating. It actually reminds me of Nani in a way, back 2 years ago. He needs to control his shot taking, there's a reason that right now it's considered his only saving grace, because it's all he does.
Gibson has a good shot, the problem is that at times he just doesn't know when to use the fecking thing. At times you see him shoot and you just know it'll get blocked by a defender, or it's from an angle or stance that it's nigh on impossible for him to get it on target. He literally shoots any time he gets sight of goal and it's so fecking frustrating. It actually reminds me of Nani in a way, back 2 years ago. He needs to control his shot taking, there's a reason that right now it's considered his only saving grace, because it's all he does.
Gibson is one of the least disciplined players I have seen. His tackling is very poor.
Thats all well and good. He's been better this year than last but that isn't saying much.
Its my opinion but he just isn't a top class midfield player, and teh fact that he tops whatever stats we're refferring too might just show how poor we've been in central midfield all season.
Gibson doesn't shoot every time he gets his foot on the ball. That's nonsense. Regarding Gerrard/Scholes, a goal every 2 or 3 games from central midfield is an excellent return from any midfielder, in any season. That works out at 10-20 goals most seasons. Which is right up there with their averages over their careers. We've certainly been crying out for someone who can do this since Scholes started playing deeper and scoring less frequently.
I'm not making a case for saying Gibson is as good as Gerrard or Scholes at his best, nor am I saying he's a future United regular (as I keep saying, I don't think he'll be here next season) What he is, though, is a regular goal-scorer from central midfield, which is a valuable commodity for any team.
Chances are he'll end up having a reasonable career at another PL club and score a decent amount of goals, each one of which will be accompanied by a youtube video, a
smilie and comments about how we gave up on him too early.Priceless? Not really, VDV as one of the best at scoring goals from midfield and he cost Spurs £8m. Not to mention that Gibson isn't really a goalscoring midfielder, more like a midfielder who shoots instead of passing a lot of the time (although occasionally his shot is brilliant, but maybe that's just a numbers game). Nine goals in 50 appearances is hardly setting the world alight either, particularly given that 3 of these goals were in the Carling Cup against lesser opposition.
Agreed. He isn't going to come out and say "Darron Gibson could be the next Djemba-Djemba".
I agree that he'd have had to massively impress in the reserves to gain a place in the first team squad. However far more players that have fought their way into the first team squad have subsequently not been close to good enough. Out of the tons of players over the last decade to come close(ish), only O'Shea, Fletcher and (arguably) Evans have established that they are good enough.
Unfortunately for Gibson he will almost certainly have to apply his trade elsewhere like the majority of others.
Really now Pogue? He shoots far too much, come on, not sure how you can argue that. I couldn't name any other midfielder who shoots as much as soon as he gets the ball in the final third of the pitch. Not even Lampard.
EDIT: In the PL that is, not in the entire footballing world
EDIT: In the PL that is, not in the entire footballing world
You need to look at starts, not appearances. As a young/fringe player, he makes a lot of substitute appearances, which make him seem a lot less prolific than he is.
Cross-posted from another thread.
Reading those stats, we should be thankful that at least one of our central midfielders is willing to take a crack. If you don't shoot, you don't score.
I find it bizarre that so many people on here are crying out for a goal-scoring central midfielder while at the same time moaning about a young central midfielder already at our club (with a proven ability to score goals) because he shoots too much!
Darron Gibson doesn't shoot every time he gets the ball to his feet either though, thats another lame argument just like the he can't pass argument that does be used time & time again, & when ever he does take a shot its usually on target, many's a shot of Gibson's resulted in a corner kick for us after making the opposition goalkeeper work, he has a pretty good goal per game ratio & the vast majority of those goals came from outside the box so i don't know how you find it fustrating that the lad has a pop now & again, Fergie obviously hasn't a problem with him having a crack on goal.
I believe he will still be here next season.
He's only 23 and I don't think Fergie will give up on him just yet.
He's only 23 and I don't think Fergie will give up on him just yet.
True, but as I specified generally his full games come against lesser opposition in the Carling Cup so just counting starts would drastically skew the stats (highlighted by his far superior goal record in the Carling Cup). I think if you looked as his goals per Premier League minute it wouldn't be very impressive at all (also I think goals per shot on goal would be even more interesting).
/edit: not to mention that he is almost never going to score anything but a 35 yard screamer as he doesn't have the intelligence, pace or anticipation to follow up a pass into the box for a tap-in/header (like Scholes did regularly)
I totally agree that we need to shoot more. Hell even Rooney now seems to pass at every opportunity rather than have a go. The major problem I have is that for instance Nani shoots a lot, but most of the times that he shoots he either creates the opportunity for himself or shooting is the best option available (setting aside the occasional time that he frustrates the hell out of us by shooting when there is a guy with a tapin).
Gibson on the other hand has massively blinkered vision. It seems that 5 seconds before he shoots he has made up his mind that he will shoot regardless of what happens. The amount of time that a winger is totally free in acres or that a striker is in a great position and he shoots anyway (or an opposition player has stepped directly in front of him 2 seconds previous)... That is the most frustrating thing.
It's like playing the old Fifa games with the 3-5 second delayed reaction on shots and you couldn't change your mind after you've clicked the button.
You're deliberately using a small sample size to show Gibson's record in a more positive light. Why are you only using last as an example? What's wrong with using his record this season or his record at reserve level or while out on loan? A quick look at wiki will show his record isn't great barring a 4 game run when his pot shots hit the net. The facts are when his wildly inconsistent shooting is off he's not going to get goals because he rarely makes runs into the box to get on the end of chances.
Everyone else has given up.
For those interested Wikipedia shows Gibson as having scored 11 goals in 107 games, as reliable as those stats may be. Roughly one goal in ten. Priceless indeed.
Because it's judging him on an entire season at his current club. Which seems fair. If you insist on looking further back, he scored 3 goals in 11 starts in 08/09. Which is just below the one in 3 from last season. Combine both seasons and you've got 8 goals in 25 starts. Which is almost bang on a goal every 3 starts. Which is a very good return for a central midfielder.
You're (also) talking out your arse when you describe his shooting as "wildly inconsistent", by the way. It's not very difficult to see that he is very accomplished striker of the ball, technically. Which is why he scores so frequently.
I don't have any problem with poeple discussing the obvious flaws in his game but it all gets a bit fecking stupid when people can't even appreciate the equally obvious strengths.
One goal in 33 appearances for Royal Antwerp. One goal in 21 games for Wolves. Maybe they were all sub appearances too. That of course would beg the question of why he wasn't starting.
Priceless indeed.
Physically impossible to score as a sub is it?
His shooting is inconsistent. That's why he's just as likely to hit the corner flag as he is the goal. Anybody who thinks differently is talking out of their arse.
Not much use only taking into account goals scored for Man United if we're talking about him being priceless to other teams as a goalscoring midfielder. He won't be playing for Man United.
He was 19 years old at Antwerp, 20 years old at Wolves. Does that help to answer your question about why he wasn't starting?
Or perhaps you subscribe to the Scholesy school of idiocy, whereby young players are born as ready made Premier League footballers with no need to improve or develop their game whatsoever?
I give up, you're an idiot.
An idiot, who's so stupid he's use the word "priceless" in response to my posts twice now, without apparently realising I've never once described Gibson as such.
I think he'll move on in the summer. In fact I'm almost sure he will.
I echo this for some reason I'm not sure of
I think so too. The 25 man squad cap means Fergie has to be a bit more ruthless than before, when it comes to giving out squad numbers.
I give up, you're an idiot.
An idiot, who's so stupid he's use the word "priceless" in response to my posts twice now, without apparently realising I've never once described Gibson as such.
You really are a pompous twat. You steamrolled into a debate I was having with another poster who said goalscoring midfielders are pricesless. I said Gibson's record isn't one of a great goalscorer. You come steaming in like the self righteous prick that you are and said I was wrong. Connect the dots cretin.
Whilst i partially agree that sub appearances cannot be included along with the games he's started while conducting an analysis. Its also fair play to actually see how many minutes he got as a sub. A 87th minute sub can't do much but run around (I'm talking about normal players Ole was special ). But a 55th minute sub has more than enough time to get into the groove of the game .
To that respect, it would be in the conversation's best interest if the games in which he spent more than 30 minutes on the pitch be counted so that we get a fair view on how he's faired.
). But a 55th minute sub has more than enough time to get into the groove of the game . To that respect, it would be in the conversation's best interest if the games in which he spent more than 30 minutes on the pitch be counted so that we get a fair view on how he's faired.
He has the most consistent, powerful and accurate longshots in our squad currently. Just because he's been off form as of late, doesn't mean his shots are 'wildly inconsistent'. Pogue raises a good point, it is beyond stupid to cry out for a goalscoring midfielder and then castigate one of our existing players for shooting too much.
I'm not Gibson's biggest fan by any means but I think he offers a unique goalscoring talent from a fairly deep midfield role. I'm sure he's working to improve his work off the ball. Whether or not he will ever improve in this respect is another story entirely, but if he does, he'll make huge strides and you lot will be eating your words.
I'm not Gibson's biggest fan by any means but I think he offers a unique goalscoring talent from a fairly deep midfield role. I'm sure he's working to improve his work off the ball. Whether or not he will ever improve in this respect is another story entirely, but if he does, he'll make huge strides and you lot will be eating your words.
You're making shit up now. You said his record isn't that of a "regular goal-scorer". In fact, you made this same point a in a few different posts. I corrected you (aka "steam-rollered in" apparently). Re-read the posts if you don't believe me.
I couldn't give a toss whether or not he's "priceless" (however, that might be defined).
You're not very good at this, are you?
That's what Rene Meulensteen thinks of him.
stop derailing every thread insulting posters Pogue, it's beyond boring now
Shite, these are one of those threads which is impossible to reason in.
Will Gibson stay or will he go? Only God knows the future, just ask Ron.
But for Gibson to be castigated when NONE of our other midfielders are doing anything that great either is a bit of a farce. He's a United player and we should hope/wish he improves and proves us all wrong. (didn't we learn anything from Fletcher??).
I'm not saying the lad is good enough and he is frustrating as hell to watch, especially when he doesn't impose himself on the game, but if his sold or not at the end of the year, shouldn't we, you know...support him as a UNITED player?
Will Gibson stay or will he go? Only God knows the future, just ask Ron.
But for Gibson to be castigated when NONE of our other midfielders are doing anything that great either is a bit of a farce. He's a United player and we should hope/wish he improves and proves us all wrong. (didn't we learn anything from Fletcher??).
I'm not saying the lad is good enough and he is frustrating as hell to watch, especially when he doesn't impose himself on the game, but if his sold or not at the end of the year, shouldn't we, you know...support him as a UNITED player?
If my posts bore you, put me on ignore.
We're discussing Darron Gibson here, by the way, not me. If you have a problem with threads being derailed, maybe you should keep your own posts on topic? Just a thought.
I'll give you powerful, but consistent and accurate wouldn't be justifiable. I'd say Scholesy when he does decide to rifle one in is much more accurate than Gibson and with regards to consistency there's no barometer to place his level. He does have a good shot and he does use it well sometimes, but his shot to goal percentage isn't ,from my viewing,as good as it is sometimes made out to be.
Mobility is one of his biggest problems along with his off the ball work. If he does improve on those two, we'd be very wrong indeed right now. But as of this moment, he has hellva lot of work to do.
I agree, it is not nice.
I think everybody wants the lad to do well, why would anybody wish otherwise?
most people are being realistic about his options and whether he's good enough to put on our strip
mind you, I think Sir Alex sees something in him, he can be pretty decent on his day, he ahs potential
but so did the likes of Richardson
As I said previously you are happy to disregard sub appearances etc but are failing to acknowledge the converse, that:
a) A lot of his starts are in the Carling or FA Cup against cannon fodder who afford him the time and space to unleash his shot (e.g. Southampton and Derby in FA Cup, also 4 goals in the Carling Cup)
b) Even the Premier League starts are likely to be against the lower teams (example when the league was already won and there was nothing to play for against Hull)
Disregarding these your asserion that he's "got 8 goals in 25 starts" suddenly gets put into perspective.
Not anyone that matters though, I hope.
because last season was the first season where he started to get a consistent run of games
this season he has actually only started 3 PL games
and we can dicuss the lad without the pointless insults
why should rules on insulting other members not apply to you?, you've been derailing the forum up and down with them
it sets a bad example for other posters who then think they are allowed to go around insulting posters because nobody blinks an eyelid at you constantly doing it