Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?

marcus agrippa said:
Yep. That's why he started against Chelsea on Sunday. Oh wait...

More wishful thinking, really: "He'll no doubt do <x> this season" ; "He's guaranteed to do <y> if <z>".

Hypothetical question: how long before teams cotton on to the fact that you mustn't give him space at the edge of the box or thereabouts? Will he have the gumption to improvise then?
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Do you know why the players who started the game against Chelsea, did so? Sir Alex explained it. I wont be surprised if you're out of the loop.

Are you seriously suggesting that premier league managers dont already know that you need to close him down?
 
I'd imagine you had similar doubts about Lampard back in the day too.

And he didn't start against Chelsea because we played two central midfielders, with Park acting as a third one a lot of the time...that says more about the type of tactics and system flexibility that we wanted, along with giving players that needed games some games, rather than anything about Gibson, really.

You've got your doubts, we get it, how about a bit of renewed faith given Sir Alex's comments and a few big moments last season from Gibson? Just a bit? We all have our doubts but continually repeating them with no new way of looking at it is a bit pointless, don't you think?
 
Ekeke said:
Are you seriously suggesting that premier league managers dont already know that you need to close him down?
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Are you suggesting that they knew last season?

Brwnd said:
I'd imagine you had similar doubts about Lampard back in the day too.
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So, are we now saying that Gibson is the new Lampard?

Confirmation bias if ever I saw one! The set of players showing promise early on, only not to make it is far greater than those who do.

It is illogical to claim that I'm wrong simply because I mightn't have rated Lampard in a similar situation.

Statistically, I'm far more likely to be right, especially since the two situations are not even causally related!

And he didn't start against Chelsea because we played two central midfielders, with Park acting as a third one a lot of the time...that says more about the type of tactics and system flexibility that we wanted, along with giving players that needed games some games, rather than anything about Gibson, really.
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He didn't just not start. He wasn't even on the bench, whereas I've been assured in this thread that, if picked, Gibson is practically a guaranteed match winner for us.

So much for that hypothesis (maybe I'm being kind; not even an hypothesis. Rather, wishful thinking).

You've got your doubts, we get it, how about a bit of renewed faith given Sir Alex's comments and a few big moments last season from Gibson? Just a bit? We all have our doubts but continually repeating them with no new way of looking at it is a bit pointless, don't you think?
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I guess you should know by now I don't put much stock in 'faith'. I must see something first. Cleverley I've seen in the reserves and a couple of games on loan, for example, to have 'belief'.

Gibson, I've seen similarly to have 'disbelief'.

I just don't see what the big deal is in my saying that I don't see his quality. I'd love to be proven wrong.

But I have severe doubts I will, more's the pity.
 
marcus agrippa said:
So, are we now saying that Gibson is the new Lampard?

...

He wasn't even on the bench, whereas I've been assured in this thread that, if picked, Gibson is practically a guaranteed match winner for us.
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So basically, you just like to put words in people's mouths to make sure, in your mind, you're right?

Otherwise I can't really see why you'd say either of those things, as neither I nor Ekeke said either of these things, nor implied them!

I dunno, maybe you just like exaggerating for effect...but even then you've overdone it just a tad.
 
Brwned said:
So basically, you just like to put words in people's mouths to make sure, in your mind, you're right?

Otherwise I can't really see why you'd say either of those things, as neither I nor Ekeke said either of these things, nor implied them!

I dunno, maybe you just like exaggerating for effect...but even then you've overdone it just a tad.
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You invited comparisons to Lampard. Don't pretend you didn't. It's right there in your post.

Additionally, don't pretend that your argument was in fact logical.

Whether or not I rated Lampard early on (and you've no evidence I did or didn't, nor will I give you any) has absolutely nothing to do with whether I rate Gibson now.

So said Ekeke:

Ekeke said:
The longer he stays at the club, and Fergie keeps faith in him, playing him in matches like that, the more evidence he will provide that he can be a match winner for us in any type of game and do it with screamers from time to time as well.
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Operative phrase: 'the more evidence' . i.e. he has already given us evidence of being a match-winner.

Fair enough, he scores goals, but for a match-winner (potential or otherwise) not to make the bench...
 
I'm with Marcus on this one. Aside from the fearsome shot there is not a lot there. He must up his game in so many areas and for that reason alone it makes it the much harder for him to have a future as a first teamer for this club. He could feature as a squad player for sure. The likes of John o'shea have proved that this route is doable if your willing to sit on the bench and play back up.
 
marcus agrippa said:
You invited comparisons to Lampard. Don't pretend you didn't. It's right there in your post.

Additionally, don't pretend that your argument was in fact logical.

Whether or not I rated Lampard early on (and you've no evidence I did or didn't, nor will I give you any) has absolutely nothing to do with whether I rate Gibson now.

So said Ekeke:

Operative phrase: 'the more evidence' . i.e. he has already given us evidence of being a match-winner.

Fair enough, he scores goals, but for a match-winner (potential or otherwise) not to make the bench...
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Don't you think he has a very similar style to Lampard?

Your logic on Ekeke's quote is lost on me, I'm afraid. Nani has always been a potential match-winner, didn't stop him from being kept out of the 16 at times just last season. Like-wise for Macheda. Or plenty of other young players who still have to work on other parts of their game to earn their spot. The idea that him not being in the team is proof that he's not a matchwinner makes no sense to me at all.
 
Brwned said:
Don't you think he has a very similar style to Lampard?
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He might like to take pot-shots from distance like old Lamps, but so what?

My major beef with your bringing up Lampard was solely that it made no sense. Whether or not I rated Lampard's chances has absolutely nothing to do with Gibson.

Your logic on Ekeke's quote is lost on me, I'm afraid. Nani has always been a potential match-winner, didn't stop him from being kept out of the 16 at times just last season. Like-wise for Macheda. Or plenty of other young players who still have to work on other parts of their game to earn their spot. The idea that him not being in the team is proof that he's not a matchwinner makes no sense to me at all.
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Nani was gash for all but the last bit of last season. Looked more of a liability than a match-winner. Mouthed off to the press as well. Picked up a few injuries along the way for good measure.

Macheda had an injury-hit campaign.

These two situations are nowhere near Gibson's current one.

Ekeke's point is that SAF has only to 'show faith' and start Gibson, and Gibson will be a match-winner for us, allegedly continuing this from last season. He's essentially guaranteeing Gibson's status, and I'm simply pointing out that one doesn't leave sure-fire match-winners out of the match-day squad, never mind the bench.
 
marcus agrippa said:
He might like to take pot-shots from distance like old Lamps, but so what?

My major beef with your bringing up Lampard was solely that it made no sense. Whether or not I rated Lampard's chances has absolutely nothing to do with Gibson.

Nani was gash for all but the last bit of last season. Looked more of a liability than a match-winner. Mouthed off to the press as well. Picked up a few injuries along the way for good measure.

Macheda had an injury-hit campaign.

These two situations are nowhere near Gibson's current one.
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They're both impressive in the long range game, in passing and shooting, they both are very adept with both feet, they both lack the creativity and speed of thought you'd associate with most 'attacking midfielders', they both struggle to impose themselves on games when they're not a direct threat themselves, they both had a lot of doubts about whether they could make it at the top level even at the age of 22...I thought there's a lot of similarities in their play and career path. I'm not saying he'll follow the same career path, I'm just saying it's entirely likely you'd have been saying the same thing about Lampard years ago...so maybe that should tell you to have some level of patience? There's been very few players of the years with similar skill-sets who have failed at this level, so statistically, you're probably wrong to doubt he'll make it. *marcus logic*

It shows that a player of Lampard's style can be a success in the league, and if it is a success just how deadly a weapon it can be, does it not?

That's besides the point really, isn't it? They were just two examples off the top of my head of players who were well known match-winners who got left out of the line-up. Your argument seemed to me that the fact he wasn't in the team was proof enough that he actually isn't a matchwinner, potential or otherwise. Either way, I'll leave that argument to you and Ekeke. It seems very tedious and people are getting very pedantic...

Actually, it's all getting very pedantic, agree to disagree.
 
Brwned said:
There's been very few players of the years with similar skill-sets who have failed at this level, so statistically, you're probably wrong to doubt he'll make it. *marcus logic*
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Really? And I suppose I'm just to accept that by Brwned fiat (c)?

It shows that a player of Lampard's style can be a success in the league, and if it is a success just how deadly a weapon it can be, does it not?
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Of course, a player of Lampard's style (which, by the way, we haven't established that Gibson is of, despite your valiant attempt) can be a success. Lampard proves it! - What he doesn't prove is that all players of Lampard's style can be a success.

You know what they say: one sample is poor statistics.

That's besides the point really, isn't it? They were just two examples off the top of my head of players who were well known match-winners who got left out of the line-up. Your argument seemed to me that the fact he wasn't in the team was proof enough that he actually isn't a matchwinner, potential or otherwise. Either way, I'll leave that argument to you and Ekeke. It seems very tedious and people are getting very pedantic...

Actually, it's all getting very pedantic, agree to disagree.
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Well, then, clearly you misinterpreted what I said. The fact that he wasn't on the bench simply means that Ekeke's 'guaranteed match-winner' assessment - "Oh, have faith and play him Fergie! - Promise he'll score, just wait!" - was wrong. Simples.

Your examples of Nani and Macheda were way beside the point as well, given these lads were absent from the squad for entirely different reasons than Gibson.

I don't like him as a player. Why does that upset y'all so much?

I'm just not that into him. :cool:
 
where are people getting this idea from that Gibson is a good long passer? Based on what ive seen, he doesnt attempt a great deal of long passes, and those that he does are hardly ambitious. Anywhere within about 40yards of goal and if he gets the space he will simply shoot rather than pass, and otherwise he puts in a reasonable shift without having anything much else to his game.

I always want a youth product to succeed at United, but unless Gibson takes a couple of major stepups in his allround game I just cant see him being of value to us, except in a backup role starting maybe 10 games for the season.

Despite what people say, i dont think his long shooting is that special. He takes a lot of shots, and maybe 1 in 10 will go in, not a fantastic ratio by any means, and whilst those that he does score are often screamers, that isnt enough by itself to justify a place in the first XI of Manchester United (i hope not, anywya).
 
He's got great technique and ability on either foot. He does not take a shot each time he is within 40 yards. It's an extremely closed view of the guy but, clearly he's been given license to do just that by the manager or else he'd not only not get praise from the man himself but, he wouldn't be playing for us.

If he is making that many bad decisions in shooting per game - he simply wouldn't be here.

He can hit the long pass but, has not perfected it. He does need improvement on his vision and decision making but, mostly he needs to be quicker when on the ball - a bit too ponderous.
 
I'd say one in three good chances to shoot he'd score from last season. Might be slightly generous and closer to one in four but oh well. I dont have the stats.

But if I did have the stats, I'm sure they'd say that Ronaldo had a fair few shots per goal as well. Gibson's ratio will improve as with the rest of his game.
 
Ekeke said:
I'd say one in three good chances to shoot he'd score from last season. Might be slightly generous and closer to one in four but oh well. I dont have the stats.

But if I did have the stats, I'm sure they'd say that Ronaldo had a fair few shots per goal as well. Gibson's ratio will improve as with the rest of his game.
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Are you ok?
 
marcus agrippa said:
Really? And I suppose I'm just to accept that by Brwned fiat (c)?



Of course, a player of Lampard's style (which, by the way, we haven't established that Gibson is of, despite your valiant attempt) can be a success. Lampard proves it! - What he doesn't prove is that all players of Lampard's style can be a success.

You know what they say: one sample is poor statistics.



Well, then, clearly you misinterpreted what I said. The fact that he wasn't on the bench simply means that Ekeke's 'guaranteed match-winner' assessment - "Oh, have faith and play him Fergie! - Promise he'll score, just wait!" - was wrong. Simples.

Your examples of Nani and Macheda were way beside the point as well, given these lads were absent from the squad for entirely different reasons than Gibson.

I don't like him as a player. Why does that upset y'all so much?

I'm just not that into him. :cool:
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I tell you its more to do with a very irritating style of posting than anything else.

I've seen about five of your posts and they are filled with petty quips
and lack substance.

Antagonistic in nature and frankly boring. :boring:
 
DFreshKing said:
I tell you its more to do with a very irritating style of posting than anything else.

I've seen about five of your posts and they are filled with petty quips
and lack substance.

Antagonistic in nature and frankly boring. :boring:
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So, rather than address my points like Brwned and Ekeke have done, this is what you come up with?

Hardly surprising. Vapid is what vapid does, I guess.

:boring:
 
No you didn't hurt my feelings, read what I posted, I find you posts to be irritating and lack substance.

The only one who shows hurt is you, which is why you keep resorting to defensive insult hurling. Its alight I understand, I can feel you anger, just try to breath and be happy.

Sorry if I offended you but your posts are shite.
 
Cold_Boy said:
These players showed glimpses of brilliance at some stage of career with United at least.

Gibson can shoot,thats it.
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He won the young player of the year for playing for the reserves like Scholes, Giggs, Macheda etc all did. You could easily argue that Gibson has shown enough in at least some games last season to have shown glimpses of what he could become. Last year against Spurs in the FA cup springs to mind.
 
A reason for the 'ignore' function:

DFreshKing said:
No you didn't hurt my feelings, read what I posted, I find you posts to be irritating and lack substance.

The only one who shows hurt is you, which is why you keep resorting to defensive insult hurling. Its alight I understand, I can feel you anger, just try to breath and be happy.

Sorry if I offended you but your posts are shite.
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:lol:
 
Baby Faced Assassin said:
how further down the schedule do you think will Gibson get his chance?
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Alot of that is going to depend on Carrick and how solid our forward players are defensively. Gibson gives you two things in match, a rather solid body that gets around and one hell of a shot so it's pretty understandable why Ferguson fancied him towards the back end of last season.

Carrick will be first on the list for getting game time soon so I wouldn't expect to see Gibson for a while, especially considering how much extra weight he seemed to be carrying pre-season, but you never know for sure.
 
If we go through the window without having signed a midfielder then you'd assume Gibson will get lots of chances. Personally I reckon that'll be proven to be a mistake, but we've had plenty of players train on under this manager and hopefully Gibson will be another.

I'd be a bit worried about how immobile our central midfielders will be though depending on the combinations we use.
 
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He's not very good at staying within the lines....it didn't look that hard.
 
GE said:
Rio seems to love watching Big Brother and putting together iTunes Playlists by the sounds of it :lol: that's all he ever posts about!
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He loves BB, Music, taking the mick out of Robbie Savage, and of course, silks
 
GE said:
It's him.

Why should they be banned from social networking? they're bloody normal people. Movie stars and singers have them, so I don't see why footballers can't.
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Because most footballers are too thick to be trusted with it.
 
Febian Brandy (on Facebook):
How can a police man pull me over for nearly swerving in2 him I explained 2 him that a spider was swinging left 2 right in my car and sorta shit me up :-o he wernt avin nun ov it sed its classed as dangerous driving
26 August at 00:54 via Mobile Web
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Apparently he also sells blackberry phones via Facebook.
 
Gibson Vs Trappatoni

Giovanni Trapattoni has denied reports that he claimed Darron Gibson would have to leave Manchester United in order to further his international career.

Reports claimed over the weekend that Gibson might have to quit Old Trafford to become a regular in Trapattoni's Republic of Ireland side.

The suggestions earned an angry rebuke from Gibson with the midfielder unhappy that Trapattoni was advising him to leave United, stating the Italian 'must have been having a laugh'.

"If Trapattoni wants me to move on from a club like Manchester United to better my game, move to somewhere like Stoke where I'll get more games but have little chance of winning anything, then I just don't know," Gibson told the Derry Journal.

"At what club, other than Manchester United, could I go to improve my game? To be honest, if he's trying to say that I should move somewhere like Stoke City and change my game to winning tackles and not winning games, then he's having a laugh. To move on from Manchester United just doesn't make sense to me."
Confusion

However, after Ireland's 3-1 win over Andorra, Trapattoni moved to clear up the confusion insisting he never suggested for Gibson to find pastures new, but to work harder to establish himself at United.

"What I told him was that, for him, the action is not finished when he does not have the ball," said Trapattoni.

"I told him that in this great team (United) it is not easy to play in this situation because he plays with ten great players and when these great players have the ball they play.

"He must ask for the ball, he must want the ball. That is important.

"He has to work to get the ball. He has fantastic vision and the long ball and he has a good personality with the ball."

Sky Sports | Football | Euro 2012 | News | Trap denies Gibson claims

Hmmmmm......Does Trap have a point?
 
I'd say Trap has a great point. He's got it in a nutshell... He needs to impose himself more without the ball.
 
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