Stop talking rubbish, plenty people knew Fletch was supposed to be a huge talent when we first started hearing about him.
Sorry to burst your fine ego bubble.
Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
- Thread starter Name Changed
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Stop talking rubbish, plenty people knew Fletch was supposed to be a huge talent when we first started hearing about him.
Sorry to burst your fine ego bubble.
I disagree here with you Chief.
At the same age Gibson is now(approimately 22 and a half), Fletcher was back up to Scholes and Carrick during 06/07 and started to consistently play well most of the time he was played. You could even have called him a first team player due to the number of times Fergie played 4-3-3 in the second half of that season with Saha so often injured. He had a poor season 05/06 but even before then he had put in some good performances for United in big games. He got too much bad press for one poor season when Keane was past it and Scholes was injured with the eye injury and the midfield was not good enough.
The only way an argument that Gibson is better than Fletcher at 22 and a half could be made is for me only based on potential and the fact Fletcher got alot more first team experience in his formative years because around this point fletcher was putting in performances like the ones against Roma and Milan first leg where he was very, very good. The evidence was there that season that he could go on to become a first team midfield player even with the likes of Hargreaves coming in.
That's the thing. He is only close to the first team because Giggs, Hargreaves and Anderson are all injured. And when Scholes and Giggs do eventually call it quits, I'd presume replacements will be bought and Gibson will stay where he is in the pecking order. That's why I don't really think he'll be at the club in a few years. He has international ambitions and I would presume he would need to be playing regular enough football.
This to me is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Fletcher at that age put on performances like he did against Roma. Gibson has never come close to putting on anything of the sort.
In the current Ireland set-up not necessarily. If he could pick up 20-30 games a season, with some regularity in terms of appearances, for one of the biggest clubs in the world he doesn't have much in the way of competition in terms of getting in the Ireland team.
By the time we faced Roma Fletcher was almost 23 and had started to finally mature. When He had just turned 22 however, he put in a lot of stale performances. I know this for a fact because I spent most of my time on the cafe defending his abilty at the time. You're current love of Fletcher has made you totally forget what he was like at that age. That much is clear.
Fletcher was the exception though, not the rule. Most of our youngsters who've lingered around in mediocrity in their early twenties have not been good enough.
I have also defended Fletcher for years because I could see how good he was. Gibson is almost 22 and a half so that comparison with the Roma game is not far off. Gibson should be able to put in that kind of performance early next season so, but I'm guessing he won't. If you think Gibson is better than Fletcher was at that age, then I presume that you think Gibson will continue to improve and emulate and obviously surpass (since he is better) what Fletcher has done? And considering Fletcher is one of the best midfielders in the world in his position, you must think Gibson is going to become the same?
He wouldn't get near that kind of games if there were not long term injuries in the squad. How many has he this season? And that was with a load of injuries? His chances will be extremely limited when we actually get our players fit. I couldn't see him playing any more than League Cup games or dead rubber games. There are just too many players ahead in the pecking order. For Ireland, it won't be long before James McCarthy gets ahead in the pecking order, plus if the likes of Jamie O'Hara do end up declaring, that puts Gibson back. He is third choice to Keith Andrews and Glenn Whelan as it is.
hes alright,i like him.
doesnt bring enough to the table though.
doesnt bring enough to the table though.
That would be jumping the gun.
For me Gibson is better than Fletcher was when he had just turned 22 but it guarantees him nothing. For he has one big disadvantage against him. He will never get the amount of game time Fletcher had to improve himself in the first team proper. He will have to do things the hard way, as in mature and get good with few chances. It won't be easy for him. Although what will help is he will be surrounded by better players than Fletcher had to develop around. Which though still is no substitute for learning from proper playing time.
For me, as of now, I think Gibson might end up as a valuable squad player for us ala Oshea and Park, given the circumstances in front of him, when he finally matures and learns to master his weaknesses and enhance his strengths. As we know though nothing is guaranteed. But I just don't believe he has such a weak game that he has no chance of making a home for himself at OT. After all A.F.A.I.K. we don't need every player who comes through our doors to end up as starter material. We just need them to at worst to develop into reliable squad players. If they can prove more, even better.
Because football is strange, fellows like Brown at the start of his career looked dead on surities for being proper starters at United, yet all sorts of things hampered that. While a player like Fletcher despite early injury set backs, and a difficult start to his first team career, has gone on to mature into a bonafide star. As last night's performance can attest.
That is why its better for us to be patient. Rather than jump the gun with our judgments, like others in this thread and others have done.
He has featured 17 times (way more than was to be expected at the start of the campaign) this season, coming of the bench on seven occassions and starting ten games. He will have a hard time getting too many games in the run-in though with Giggs coming back from injury and Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes and Giggs ahead of him in the pecking order.
The injuries of Hargreaves, Anderson, Carrick & Giggs have really pushed him into the matchday squad loads of times this year.
That was a poor 20 minutes from Gibson. I like the lad but he really needs to start performing if he wants a future at United
Agreed, I thought he was pretty bad last night, just as well it didn't matter as we'd already stuffed them by that stage.
He falls into that bracket of Fletcher, OShea, Evans in that
- They have honest potential which could, given time, develop into something really special
- They already have their international spots pretty much nailed down (I'm certain Gibson will do very soon if not already)
- They're free
- Not likely to create hassle for Fergie if they don't get game time
- Spent pretty much all of their so important early years of football development training with United
- Have the United way of football in their blood
Players like these are always worth investing in and holding onto, which is why we have so many in the youth setup (C.Evans, Cathcart, Norwood, McGinty etc).
- They have honest potential which could, given time, develop into something really special
- They already have their international spots pretty much nailed down (I'm certain Gibson will do very soon if not already)
- They're free
- Not likely to create hassle for Fergie if they don't get game time
- Spent pretty much all of their so important early years of football development training with United
- Have the United way of football in their blood
Players like these are always worth investing in and holding onto, which is why we have so many in the youth setup (C.Evans, Cathcart, Norwood, McGinty etc).
A very good summary.
Of course you'll always get players that tick the above boxes who end up being shipped out (if they're not good enough, or if they're determined to get regular first-team football) so Gibson may well be on his bike soon enough. You can see why he's a useful asset to have though.
We'll just have to disagree on Gibson's quality or potential quality.
Anyway, I'm not saying he definitely won't make it as a regular at United, I'm just saying that I don't think he will and have given reasons why.
If he does make it and turns into a good player, I'll be as happy as anybody. In fact, I'll be happier than most because he plays for my own country!
My point was that he was only involved in so many games because of long injuries to players. Those kind of injuries, such as what Hargreaves has suffered, is unusual enough. Gibson must still be behind Fletcher, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Anderson and Giggs in the pecking order. Plus, the way Park is playing in the middle, his chances of playing in a 3 man midfield (which I think would be more suited to him) become more limited. And, in my opinion, the club will buy replacements for Giggs and Scholes when they do retire unless some young players really step up in the meantime, players such as Petrucci and obviously Gibson himself. For Gibson to get the games to establish himself as both a United first-teamer and an Ireland regular, he really has to surpass a lot of players. It will be tough yet obviously not impossible.
McCarthy looks nailed on to become a first choice midfielder for Ireland, but Andrews and Whelan's places are there to be taken really. If Stephen Reid could ever stay fit that would complicate things for Gibson obviously.
As for his potential to get games for Utd, alot of iut depends on who we sign. As it stands he's got every chance of picking up 20+ games next year. Giggs and Scholes aren't getting any younger, there's no guarantee that Hargreaves won't break down again, Anderson will be coming back from serious injury and seems to take an eternity to build up a decent level of stamina...it all depends on if he can step up his development and earn playing time.
I'm totally undecided as to whether he'll be able to. He's got quite a bit going for him - that missile of a shot obviously, plus he's capable of some technically excellent passing and he's got the physique to be a very effective tackler. I remember him putting in a couple of thunderous tackles in the Cup against Everton last year. Whether he can develop the workrate, speed of thought and consistency to make the most of those assets is the question.
oxymoron surely?
Probably. Poor fella needs putting down. Its a shame as he was a very good player.
We are on the same page then. The people am at odds with are those who are so sure and come up with statements like ''he will be at hull'' etc..
the comparison between Fletcher and Gibson is a bit unfair
it's all well and good saying "I knew Fletcher was gonna make it blahblah..."
a) did you really?
b) Fletcher had been given far more game time than Gibson at his age - I think a lot of players no longer at the club might've benefitted had they enjoyed the same indulgence that Fletch had
not knocking Fletch. Far from it......but he's been one lucky boy to have enjoyed the patience and indulgence that others haven't. I'm just delighted he's repaid us.
it's all well and good saying "I knew Fletcher was gonna make it blahblah..."
a) did you really?
b) Fletcher had been given far more game time than Gibson at his age - I think a lot of players no longer at the club might've benefitted had they enjoyed the same indulgence that Fletch had
not knocking Fletch. Far from it......but he's been one lucky boy to have enjoyed the patience and indulgence that others haven't. I'm just delighted he's repaid us.
It's not even warranted. It's only their being judged prematurely that is being compared.
Yes. My posting history is proof
Maybe. But some weren't simply good enough while others simply lacked his patience and determination.
But you also make your own luck. Fletcher always had the talent to do something at OT, that is why the staff gave him time. What helped him most though was his determination and patience to make his dream of succeeding at OT come true. They aren't many footballers who would have taken the constant stick from fans and the media, and the addition of quality players while still being on the fringes of a team, without saying feck it, I don't need this shit.
That wasn't down to luck though, that was because Fergie knew he was a player worth being patient with. Fletcher was identified as having the potential to be a top player from a very young age.
Remains to be seen if he has the same faith in Gibson.
Hes pretty average.
Sorry to say this but not United quality.
He can't pass for shit.
Sorry to say this but not United quality.
He can't pass for shit.
It's not even warranted. It's only their being judged prematurely that is being compared.
Yes. My posting history is proof
Maybe. But some weren't simply good enough while others simply lacked his patience and determination.
But you also make your own luck. Fletcher always had the talent to do something at OT, that is why the staff gave him time. What helped him most though was his determination and patience to make his dream of succeeding at OT come true. They aren't many footballers who would have taken the constant stick from fans and the media, and the addition of quality players while still being on the fringes of a team, without saying feck it, I don't need this shit.
it wasn't that bad mate - and with Fergie to hold his hand along with a nice pay-packet, well, don't know about you but I reckon I'd stick the "tough times" out
this is my point though - has Fletcher really got anything that other players haven't, that didn't benefit from Fergie's "patience"
I could use the same hindsight that others show here and point to Pique and Rossi and even Higginbotham and there's certainly been others who had the potential that Fletch had. It sounds like a cheap shot but there's no other way to put it, other than he's enjoyed his compatriot's indulgence. As Ive said elsewhere though, I'm delighted he has developed as he has. Probably our most consistent player for at least two seasons.
It's probably a bit cliche by now but I trust Fergie's decision. He stuck by Fletcher and Nani when most of us thought he should have cut his losses, yet they are both now coming to fruition (touchwood). At the risk of sounding like a scouser, if Fergie sees potential, so do I.
Given he started a game for us at 16 you'd think he had a lot more potential than you seem to think.
Plus an outstanding attitude's always a good way to get into Ferguson's good books, because it means he was always going to make it in Sir Alex's eyes.
Talent and determination = success
IMHO It was. Fletch has thick skin and serious self belief. Especially when I remember men like Lassana Diarra running away from competition at Arsenal.
Same here. I'd never let anyone dictate to me my dreams. I'd prefer to simply go out and grab 'em or die trying.
How do you generate such power with inside of your feet like Gibson did today?
That's a good question cause I thought with the power he generated he put his laces through the ball.
What a pass to Valencia. Scholesque.
Yeah, that was amazing.
He also managed to feck up 2 or 3 really easy passes though.
He seems to veer from the sublime to the shite within moments of each other. Not unlike the player who set up his goal. Loads of great attributes but very inconsistent.
If Gibson can start to put it all together, in the same way that Nani has recently started doing, I can see him making it at United.
The pass was one of the best passes you'll see all season. Good to see him getting another goal in the process. Its a difficult skill to strike it as he did twisting your body like that and keeping it down
Don't have high hopes for him. He can be decent, but to make it at United you need to be special. I just don't feel he has the technical or mental attributes.
Great shooting technique.He has really mastered that aspect of the game
By having near perfect shooting technique.
Impulse, followthrough ... that sort of thing.
Too early to write him off. If SAF had listened to the talking heads Fletcher might not be a red now.