Who do we have, or who can we get, that's willing to take his spot on the bench?
Darron Gibson - is he good enough for Everton?
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I firmly believe Gibson is more in that class of players than in Fletcher's class. He's the sort of player who we, after he is gone, will admit was never good enough for United, and was never going to be.
I hope I'm wrong.
Not good enough and never will be. Get rid of him so chances open up for our potentially better youngsters, like Pogba and Tunni.
I have major doubts about whether Gibson is good enough for United. In fact, I have doubts about whether he's good enough to start for Ireland, which says it all really!
That said, he did look good towards the end of the season.
The CL semi against Schalke is the obvious one but it's easy to forget that he started probably our one and only really good away performance in the league - against West Ham.
All of which might mean he's earned another season at the club. Time will tell.
That said, he did look good towards the end of the season.
The CL semi against Schalke is the obvious one but it's easy to forget that he started probably our one and only really good away performance in the league - against West Ham.
All of which might mean he's earned another season at the club. Time will tell.
Now that Scholes is gone, and Hargreaves has been sold as scrap, we have
Carrick
Fletcher
Anderson
Gibson
Giggs
As central midfielders. If we bring a midfielder in, that brings the tally to 6, a decent number for a team that plays 4-3-3 in Europe and against the big teams at home. I think we would have enough games to please everyone, and Gibson has shown his quality at times. I say we keep him, but this season is a make or break for him. Shit, it should be for Anderson, but he's a caf favorite so...
Carrick
Fletcher
Anderson
Gibson
Giggs
As central midfielders. If we bring a midfielder in, that brings the tally to 6, a decent number for a team that plays 4-3-3 in Europe and against the big teams at home. I think we would have enough games to please everyone, and Gibson has shown his quality at times. I say we keep him, but this season is a make or break for him. Shit, it should be for Anderson, but he's a caf favorite so...
You think Fergie's going to be more patient because the Caf likes him?
But why, when Gibson has shown signs of maturity and improvement in the last few months, flog him on when we already have him in our squad, he is a home grown talent that we could always sell on in 3 years if he doesn't produce? Not all players develop and produce from day one, some take time.
I would love to see him have another couple of years to prove himself.
I'm not saying flog him, just that this reductive argument of 'Well Fletcher came good' doesn't prove anything really, apart from the fact that one talented footballer made it. Looking at what Gibson has been doing will give you a far better idea of where he'll end up than pointing to Fletcher and assuming he'll develop along the the same lines.
FWIW I don't think he is good enough to be a first team regular. He's okay as someone who plays cup games and the occasional league game. But I'd also be of the view that the fact he's even made it this far is as much down to the relative lack of strength in the midfield in comparison to previous teams.
I personally don't think he will ever be good enough to hold down a regular first team spot but could prove to be a good squad player.
It all depends on whether the lad is happy sitting on our bench rather than playing week in week out for a less illustrious club.
It all depends on whether the lad is happy sitting on our bench rather than playing week in week out for a less illustrious club.
Your spot on with your last point there.
I'm not saying 'look at Fletcher, now Gibson will do the same', but I am pointing out the fact that people can be so quick to write a player off at United, down to the fact that they make slow progression each season. Not all players cycle to their match and smash a screamer past David Seaman at 16. If Gibson continues progressing all be it slowly each season, like he has been doing so far, then I believe in 3 or 4 years he could well be in the reckoning for a first team place, and he will have cost us nothing.
Look at Charlie Adam, probably never been considered to be Premiership quality until a year ago, and yet now at the age of 25 he is seen by some as good enough to play for United.
All i'm saying is, we should keep hold of our potential talents because it could prevent us spending money one one in a few years time.
If he is ever going to realise this potential that a lot seem to see in him he has to be playing regularly and in big games. With his current form and our current midfield we really can't afford to play him regularly or in big games. He is probably going to be 6-7th choice next season so in my opinion we should sell him. Maybe whack a buy-back clause into the sale agreement.
It's no coincidence that the form of Nani, Rafael, Fabio, Anderson etc has come after a run of matches.
It's no coincidence that the form of Nani, Rafael, Fabio, Anderson etc has come after a run of matches.
how do you work out he's going to be 6-7th choice? Considering 2 CM's have just gone
I didn't say we should sell him, though it wouldn't bother me if we did. I just think that stupid arguement when people don't rate him deserves the equally stupid response I gave.
These things are quite hard to predict, aren't they. Some people are late bloomers; agree with the point about Charlie Adam.
That said, I'm pretty sure we're going to sign someone for midfield first choice and he'll still find chances hard to come by. And without regularly playing, I don't think he can realize his potential, however much of it there is.
I don't think we should sell him, unless he demands regular first team action and wants out, like Rossi. But I do think we can loan him out for a season and see how he plays. One of the newly promoted sides perhaps; that might really bring out the fight in him.
I don't think he'll leave any time soon, he'll just be a decent squad player who is happy to sit out from time to time but also good enough to step in when the injuries stack up.
Giggs, Carrick, Anderson, Fletcher, New central midfielder, Park, Cleverley/Gibson.
If we buy 2 central midfielders then he could be even further down the pecking order.
its a question of opportunity cost, we should only sell if he wants first team football.
At this stage he is happy to have a bit part role in the squad, and the benefit of that is that we can use him to keep our other midfielders fresh, which is a tremendous bonus.
The downside is obviously the drop in quality we experience in that situation, but I think Darron is good enough to balance that out in uniteds favour. He isnt that bad guys, and even in indifferent form he does offer a tangible goal threat.
If anything, we need to bring in higher quality to play alongside him - we dont want a situation of anderson and gibson starting together as they both do not have enough guile and experience to successfully operate.
At this stage he is happy to have a bit part role in the squad, and the benefit of that is that we can use him to keep our other midfielders fresh, which is a tremendous bonus.
The downside is obviously the drop in quality we experience in that situation, but I think Darron is good enough to balance that out in uniteds favour. He isnt that bad guys, and even in indifferent form he does offer a tangible goal threat.
If anything, we need to bring in higher quality to play alongside him - we dont want a situation of anderson and gibson starting together as they both do not have enough guile and experience to successfully operate.
Wait... what? I'm thinking Scholes but who else?
The forgotten man Hargreaves.
I don't think he'll ever be more than a squad player but we need them, however if he wants week in and week out football then Sunderland is a good move for him. The price rumoured is £8M right?
Chicken and egg. I think it's much more likely that they've played a run of matches because they've improved to a point where they've earned a place in the starting line-up.
Then one good performance earns another and so on...
Obviously, being in the best XI for a club will bring a player on in leaps and bounds but squad players can do a lot of developing just through training, regular reserve games and the occasional first team appearance.
Id snap their hands off for 8million.
Definitely. It isn't helped by the fact that central midfield is an area where you can't really afford to be played into form. Which is why posters are usually so bipolar when it comes to players like Carrick/Fletcher, when we win they are heroes and get 8's and 9's and when we get beat the blame seems to rest on them (usually with comments like "you can't blame the defence, they got no protection," or "He had no service, he couldn't have done anything else.")
Which is why I believe he needs to get that experience elsewhere, whether it be a 2 season loan (which I think would be slightly unfair on him) or just a sale with a buy-back clause to cover ourselves in case he does become the player some people think he can be.
you're assuming we're going to buy a new CM
that being said, if United accepted the 8 million, i'd say its a fair price and wish him good luck. I do think he will go on to have a strong career at PL level, regardless of where it is
Even if we didn't it's feasable he could be 6th. Having said that if we don't buy a central midfielder we have greater things to worry about than Darron Gibson - namely the mass suicide of half of our fanbase.
If the fee is to be believed I would sell him in a heartbeat.
With Scholes and Hargreaves gone we shouldn't be too eager to ship out more central midfielders. I think we'll buy a new CM, but probably not two. Although this Varane fella is said to have played DM.
What do you mean by 'strong'? It would suggest to me less bold a prediction than 'great' or even 'successful'.
I really don't see it with Gibson, he has had 6 years since his debut and has shown little to suggest he can be the quality of midfielder we require at OT.
I am not saying he is shit or anything, but how do people write off Charlie Adam's credentials after the season he has had, whilst proposing Gibson's contribution as being worthy of yet another season.
Adam played last season like the player we all hoped Gibson could become, unfortunately it has not happened for him, and i for one would not lose any sleep if he were allowed to leave this summer.
Is this the Charlie Adam that made his debut in 2003 and Rangers let go because the player we see now hadn't manifest?
Good point Brophs, but i would have to add that the fact our midfield is not particularly strong, does not really reflect well on Gibson's credentials since he has still been unable to command a regular place within it.
Considering that Hargreaves has been out for 2 years, Fletcher out of form and injured the majority of this year, Carrick and Anderson either out of form or injured last year, Scholes and Giggs unable to play game after game.
Even Park has been out for longish spells, and yet despite these extremely favourable conditions for Gibson to stake his claim, he has repeatedly failed to raise his game sufficiently to do so.
In my view that would indicate that his mental toughness should be in question, even more so than his ability, as technically speaking i would propose that he is significantly more talented in possession than Fletcher.
His claim is to do what he does. Play as back up to the senior player. John O Shea is a centre back, has never staked his claim on that position and is one of the players with most appearances in our history. If you are arguing Gibson is not Roy Keane, then fair enough; to argue that he can't play in 15ish wins a year is arguing against fact. Those 15 games mean someone who cost 40 million and is on 6 times Gibson's wages can rest and score bicycle kicks in CL finals. And to me being able to contribute in that respect means he's good enough; to do that, which we need someone to do.
Nope! It's the one who made his debut in 2004.
and the same one who was voted Rangers YPOTY in 2007.There could be many reasons why he didn't make it at Rangers, maybe it was their ultra defensive style, who knows?
All i was suggesting was that if Gibson had played like Adam has played this season we would all be raving about him, as it stands he has offered very little yet many believe he is worth holding on to. I just don't get it. How can someone who has proven he has the quality to perform consistently well against PL opposition, be held in lower regard than someone who has repeatedly failed to do so?
I have yet to see any significant improvement with Gibson over quite a lengthy period of time and therefore should he leave, i for one would not be that bothered, he has had many chances to succeed and simply not taken them.
If you are talking lengthy period of time then in my eyes he has disimproved, the lad was imperious in the reserves and only this year has he been given a run in the first team with other first teamers around him. The gaffer picks him in teams that can win certain games. Which is all the lad is asked to to. Comparing Adams who will cost 10 million quid, will want decent wages and was a bit of a big headed twat over his move from he club that gave him a chance to a youth player who despite recommendation from his international manager to leave and abuse form the fans wants to stay is ridiculous.
You think if the Nevilles and Nicky Butt were signed instead of coming through the ranks they woudl have done as well. You think Liverpool were a better team / club for releasing Warnock Owen and Murphy and signing Cisse, Nunez and Josemi?
Criminally under-rated on here.
Not sure he is as much as he is under appreciated.
But while your assessment is accurate of the current situation, it is based solely on the premise that Gibson is content to be a bit part player.
If that is indeed the case then my point questioning his mental approach is even more valid. At least i was presuming he was seriously attempting to break into the first team!
Any professional worth his salt should have aspirations to aim as high as possible. Your logic with O'Shea is again based upon a similar presumption, although he has proved content to be a squad player, he is still a serious contender to those in the first team.
O'Shea and Fletcher are not particularly technically gifted, but it only strengthens my case that it is by their will and mental approach that has enabled them to become such valuable squad members. Although they are not always 'first choice,' they are at the very least regularly and seriously challenging whoever is in front of them at the time.
The difference between they and Gibson, is that they have proved their worth time and again, and are implicitly trusted. They can be called upon to fulfill a particular requirement to a certain level of consistency at any given time.
Would you suggest i am being unfair to propose that Gibson has not done enough, to be held in a similarly high regard?
Absolutely, not but this is not Top Trumps, his place in the sqaud is not comparative but if a lad can come in and play 15 games, I think all but one we won, and can do that for 6 seasons he'll be a godsend. To want him gone on some theory about his mentality is a bit odd. Every player is a squad player and if Gibson is happy to play the role he's playing we should be thankful, not critical.
And in a slight contradiction, I think he'd struggle to impose as part of any other premiership midfield, I can't see him walking into too many teams. But he knows how we play and can fill in when asked. He played against Bayern last year and looked quite at home.