Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player

Status
Not open for further replies.
SalfordRed1960 said:
Totally agree.

Whether you are a fanboy or not, Danny has performed as expected and would have done exactly the same at United.

Why not just wish him the best and let it be.
Click to expand...

Because to me and so many others it remains madness to sell the lad.

We saw this Falcao and RVP partnership coming. It just doesn't work. They're either too similar or not doing something right but it's evident what they lack.

Pace, Skill and link up play.

I think Welbeck was some of the best at all three last year. Just watching the Spurs game where he helped out in the first goal and other similar moments just makes me think what he could do at our club now. The rest of our attack is btter than Arsenal, but we miss someone like Danny who links the two. It just seemed obvious at the time we shouldn't have sold him and I think that more than ever at the moment.
 
Under LVG I suspect Welbeck's position would have been next to Herrera on the bench-and Wilson would have been in the reserves.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's starting for a club that consistently finishes in the top four and will be playing in the knock-out stages of this season's Champion's League. In the grand scheme of things, as far as professional footballers go, he is clearly one of the elite.
Click to expand...
No. He's not. He's playing for what could be classified an elite club. That does not, and never will, make him an elite striker.
 
At this point, Fellaini seems to be ahead of Wilson in the pecking order. It's fair to say that LvG got a lot wrong in the Summer.
 
Twigginater said:
Because to me and so many others it remains madness to sell the lad.

We saw this Falcao and RVP partnership coming. It just doesn't work. They're either too similar or not doing something right but it's evident what they lack.

Pace, Skill and link up play.

I think Welbeck was some of the best at all three last year. Just watching the Spurs game where he helped out in the first goal and other similar moments just makes me think what he could do at our club now. The rest of our attack is btter than Arsenal, but we miss someone like Danny who links the two. It just seemed obvious at the time we shouldn't have sold him and I think that more than ever at the moment.
Click to expand...
So .. despite the two boys playing badly, as you mystig meg's saw coming, and Welbeck being this incredible foil for Sanchez, Arsenal and all their beautiful play, pace, skill, link up play .. have scored a grand total of 5 more goals than us?

We need to either change the system and not use the 2 lads as a pair together, or we need to upgrade them. Danny is not an upgrade however.
 
dirkey said:
No. He's not. He's playing for what could be classified an elite club. That does not, and never will, make him an elite striker.
Click to expand...

Of course it fecking does. This is a ridiculous argument anyway (how do you define elite) but I suggest you watch some lower league football if you need reminding what a non-elite striker looks like.
 
dirkey said:
So .. despite the two boys playing badly, as you mystig meg's saw coming, and Welbeck being this incredible foil for Sanchez, Arsenal and all their beautiful play, pace, skill, link up play .. have scored a grand total of 5 more goals than us?

We need to either change the system and not use the 2 lads as a pair together, or we need to upgrade them. Danny is not an upgrade however.
Click to expand...
We've scored goals because we've been shoehorning in 3 of the best strikers to have played the game in the last decade. They score goals despite themselves, not because the team has been set up effectively.

Arsenal play as a team and Welbeck is integral to that. He could have elevated us to a much higher level.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Of course it fecking does. This is a ridiculous argument anyway (how do you define elite) but I suggest you watch some lower league football if you need reminding what a non-elite striker looks like.
Click to expand...
Elite means the best of the best, to me. I don't know if you watch NFL, but an elite quarterback is a list of about 5 or 6 of them. The very best. Danny simply isn't. He's a decent top level striker. He's not elite. Are you saying every striker who plays for an elite club is an elite striker? So, that makes RVP and Falcao elite, on their present form? Or Wilson? Was Forlan elite when he played for us? Francis Jeffers when he played for Arsenal? No.
 
Dante said:
We've scored goals because we've been shoehorning in 3 of the best strikers to have played the game in the last decade. They score goals despite themselves, not because the team has been set up effectively.

Arsenal play as a team and Welbeck is integral to that. He could have done the same thing here.
Click to expand...
But, playing the way we're playing, do you think Welbeck would have improved us? Up top with Van Persie / Falcao? I don't, not in the slightest. Fair enough if you do. We'll never know. All I know is, when he left, I wasn't sad. Many, many people came on here lamenting how we were selling the next Henry, and he has a grand total of 4 league goals.
 
Last season the reason Arsenal were still in the title challenge at this stage was the spread of goals across their front line. Podolski, Giroud, Ramsey & Walcott all averaged a goal roughly every 2 starts. This is vital to the way Arsenal play as Giroud isn't prolific, so the three behind him have to take up the slack. Cazorla has begun to take up this mantle in recent weeks, but Wenger will be counting the days until Walcott is fully fit.

As it stands only Sanchez is pulling his weight behind Giroud and I fully expect Wenger to put Walcott in for Welbeck as soon as is possible to rectify this. There's only so long you can say "he's benefiting the team at the expense of his own stats", before you realise that goals win games and hard working forwards who provide few goals or assists are a dime a dozen.
 
dirkey said:
Elite means the best of the best, to me. I don't know if you watch NFL, but an elite quarterback is a list of about 5 or 6 of them. The very best. Danny simply isn't. He's a decent top level striker. He's not elite. Are you saying every striker who plays for an elite club is an elite striker? So, that makes RVP and Falcao elite, on their present form? Or Wilson? Was Forlan elite when he played for us? Francis Jeffers when he played for Arsenal? No.
Click to expand...

Like I said, it's a silly argument and no, I don't watch NFL. I'd rather watch snail racing. I think any striker playing for one of the best teams in one of the strongest leagues would be considered elite. I have no way of proving this.
 
dirkey said:
But, playing the way we're playing, do you think Welbeck would have improved us? Up top with Van Persie / Falcao? I don't, not in the slightest. Fair enough if you do. We'll never know. All I know is, when he left, I wasn't sad. Many, many people came on here lamenting how we were selling the next Henry, and he has a grand total of 4 league goals.
Click to expand...
He'd have drastically altered the way we play and the way teams set up against us.

Individual goals are not the be all and end all.
 
finneh said:
Last season the reason Arsenal were still in the title challenge at this stage was the spread of goals across their front line. Podolski, Giroud, Ramsey & Walcott all averaged a goal roughly every 2 starts. This is vital to the way Arsenal play as Giroud isn't prolific, so the three behind him have to take up the slack. Cazorla has begun to take up this mantle in recent weeks, but Wenger will be counting the days until Walcott is fully fit.

As it stands only Sanchez is pulling his weight behind Giroud and I fully expect Wenger to put Walcott in for Welbeck as soon as is possible to rectify this. There's only so long you can say "he's benefiting the team at the expense of his own stats", before you realise that goals win games and hard working forwards who provide few goals or assists are a dime a dozen.
Click to expand...
Not ones with his intelligence, one touch passing, pace, touch and strength.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Like I said, it's a silly argument and no, I don't watch NFL. I'd rather watch snail racing. I think any striker playing for one of the best teams in one of the strongest leagues would be considered elite. I have no way of proving this.
Click to expand...
OK, fair enough. We just have different opinions on what makes elite. I guess Mame Biram Diouf would have been elite, at one time, by your definition.
Incidentally,do you extend that to all other positions? So Jonny Evans is elite? Or Antonio Valencia? Ashley Young?
How do you then define the very best players playing for the elite clubs? They're all elite? Or do the likes of Ronaldo / Suarez / Messi get some other tag?
 
Welbeck is a regular starter unlike all the other "elite" candidates that have been mentioned.
 
Dante said:
He'd have drastically altered the way we play and the way teams set up against us.

Individual goals are not the be all and end all.
Click to expand...
You're right. Teams would have gone and marked players who might score goals, so we'd get even less goals from Van Persie and the likes. Obviously I'm being a tad sarcastic here.

Ah yes, individual goals are not the be all and end all. I know this. Yet, despite all this amazing work he does, Arsenal have scored 5 more goals than us. It says a lot.
 
Dante said:
Welbeck is a regular starter unlike all the other "elite" candidates that have been mentioned.
Click to expand...
This is the first time regular starter has been mentioned. Incidentally, isn't he getting a lot of his time on the wing now for Arsenal all the same, and not getting it in his favoured striking position?
 
dirkey said:
You're right. Teams would have gone and marked players who might score goals, so we'd get even less goals from Van Persie and the likes. Obviously I'm being a tad sarcastic here.

Ah yes, individual goals are not the be all and end all. I know this. Yet, despite all this amazing work he does, Arsenal have scored 5 more goals than us. It says a lot.
Click to expand...
Why the obsession over raw numbers? Arsenal have a very different set of players and playing style to us. It says nothing.
 
dirkey said:
This is the first time regular starter has been mentioned. Incidentally, isn't he getting a lot of his time on the wing now for Arsenal all the same, and not getting it in his favoured striking position?
Click to expand...
Regular starter for an elite team makes for an elite player.
 
Dante said:
Why the obsession over raw numbers? Arsenal have a very different set of players and playing style to us. It says nothing.
Click to expand...
This is true. I just don't get this obsession with Danny, and why people claim he'd change us so much. He was with us for years, and never ever set the world alight.
He moved to Arsenal.
We were repeatedly told in here what a mistake we'd made, how he'd flourish in their system, with their style of play, and their creative players.
And look what we have at Arsenal .. same old Danny! Same old Arsenal.
And now we're being told we miss him, he'd turn us into a much better side.
It's rubbish.
 
Dante said:
Regular starter for an elite team makes for an elite player.
Click to expand...
OK, so .. let's go through our team shall we?
Rafael. Elite.
Phil Jones. Elite.
Jonny Evans. Elite.
Antonio Valencia. Elite.
Ashley Young. Elite.

Ah I'm going to stop there. Utter rubbish.
 
Dante said:
Welbeck is a regular starter unlike all the other "elite" candidates that have been mentioned.
Click to expand...

How long will he continue to be a regular though? I'd have all of Sanchez, Giroud, Ozil and Cazorla ahead of him in the Arsenal pecking order, with Walcott and AOC also cutting in to his game time. A squad role seems more likely.

Plus regular starter for an elite team doesn't automatically make someone an elite player. Even elite teams can have lesser players featuring regularly.
 
dirkey said:
OK, so .. let's go through our team shall we?
Rafael. Elite.
Phil Jones. Elite.
Jonny Evans. Elite.
Antonio Valencia. Elite.
Ashley Young. Elite.

Ah I'm going to stop there. Utter rubbish.
Click to expand...
We're not an elite club competing on numerous fronts including the Champions League.
 
dirkey said:
This is true. I just don't get this obsession with Danny, and why people claim he'd change us so much. He was with us for years, and never ever set the world alight.
He moved to Arsenal.
We were repeatedly told in here what a mistake we'd made, how he'd flourish in their system, with their style of play, and their creative players.
And look what we have at Arsenal .. same old Danny! Same old Arsenal.
And now we're being told we miss him, he'd turn us into a much better side.
It's rubbish.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this.

He's a decent player and a hard worker, fair play to him, but he simply hasn't got the quality and goals of a top class striker, not the quality and delivery of a top class winger. He falls in between both and as a result he'll likely always be a bit part player as long as he's at a top club. He's no better than he was when he left.

As it is RVP and Falcao lacked movement yesterday. Welbeck will run and move, but that doesn't make him the answer to the problem. You need more than effort to lead the line in a top side.

We might need a new forward next season if this persists, but we'll likely go out and buy someone of real quality if that's the case, or see Rooney back in there.
 
Dante said:
We're not an elite club competing on numerous fronts including the Champions League.
Click to expand...
Right now, correct. However, those players have all been with us for more than the last 2 years. Were they elite at that point?
 
sullydnl said:
How long will he continue to be a regular though? I'd have all of Sanchez, Giroud, Ozil and Cazorla ahead of him in the Arsenal pecking order, with Walcott and AOC also cutting in to his game time. A squad role seems more likely.

Plus regular starter for an elite team doesn't automatically make someone an elite player. Even elite teams can have lesser players featuring regularly.
Click to expand...
Of course you would, if you don't rate him. I'd have Welbeck as one of the starters for everything he brings to the side.
 
dirkey said:
OK, so .. let's go through our team shall we?
Rafael. Elite.
Phil Jones. Elite.
Jonny Evans. Elite.
Antonio Valencia. Elite.
Ashley Young. Elite.

Ah I'm going to stop there. Utter rubbish.
Click to expand...

I've no idea (and don't care) how NFL works but here in Europe, we're used to following football teams that compete in a large number of different leagues. The highest league of all is the Premier League, a league full of elite footballers. You should read up about it.
 
RedRover said:
Totally agree with this.

He's a decent player and a hard worker, fair play to him, but he simply hasn't got the quality and goals of a top class striker, not the quality and delivery of a top class winger. He falls in between both and as a result he'll likely always be a bit part player as long as he's at a top club. He's no better than he was when he left.

As it is RVP and Falcao lacked movement yesterday. Welbeck will run and move, but that doesn't make him the answer to the problem. You need more than effort to lead the line in a top side.

We might need a new forward next season if this persists, but we'll likely go out and buy someone of real quality if that's the case, or see Rooney back in there.
Click to expand...
I'd personally like to see Rooney up there. He has the movement, and the goal scoring ability. I really don't know why we're not playing him up there, I don't really like him in midfield. But that's for another thread I guess!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I've no idea (and don't care) how NFL works but here in Europe, we're used to following football teams that compete in a large number of different leagues. The highest league of all is the Premier League, a league full of elite footballers. You should read up about it.
Click to expand...
Ah, what a rather arrogant post. No point replying.
 
Dante said:
Of course you would, if you don't rate him. I'd have Welbeck as one of the starters for everything he brings to the side.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I doubt many Arsenal fans or Wenger would agree with you though.
 
dirkey said:
Right now, correct. However, those players have all been with us for more than the last 2 years. Were they elite at that point?
Click to expand...
They've all put in consistent runs of top class performances (other than Young who was never a regular until now). Like Welbeck, they're not glamourous names, but they've rubbed shoulders with the best and held their own time and again. What more can you ask for?
 
Dante said:
They've all put in consistent runs of top class performances (other than Young who was never a regular until now). Like Welbeck, they're not glamourous names, but they've rubbed shoulders with the best and held their own time and again. What more can you ask for?
Click to expand...
Exactly ... that's the difference. They're the "decent" players, playing at the top level. They're not elite. Elite means the very best. They're not the very best. They're obviously very talented footballers, but just because they're playing for United, or any other top club, doesn't mean they're elite. As someone else above mentioned, all the top clubs have some lesser players playing.
 
dirkey said:
I'd personally like to see Rooney up there. He has the movement, and the goal scoring ability. I really don't know why we're not playing him up there, I don't really like him in midfield. But that's for another thread I guess!
Click to expand...

He's wasted in midfield. It's one thing about Van Gaal I don't get - picking square pegs in round holes week after week. Rooney is one of the best forwards in Europe - why not pick him there instead of persisting with Falcao who frankly looks a shadow of the player he was. Too slow and static for me and the strength he's showed before seems lacking.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Some would say it's arrogant to take a definition of "elite" from a sport unique to your country and apply it to a foreign sport, in a completely different country but whatever, we're not getting anywhere here.

J
Click to expand...
It's not my country. I live in the US alright, but I am not from the US. I've been following NFL a lot less time than I've been following what you decide is a foreign sport to me.
The definition of elite that I am taking is the actual definition, meaning to represent the very best. I think playing for a top club makes a player a very good player (as much as you, or I, or anyone else on here will give out about the various players who play for United at a given time). But it doesn't make them elite, it doesn't make them the best.

Look at how much griping we've all done about our midfield for the last few years. Would we really do that if we had elite players in there? In my opinion, no.
 
dirkey said:
Exactly ... that's the difference. They're the "decent" players, playing at the top level. They're not elite. Elite means the very best. They're not the very best. They're obviously very talented footballers, but just because they're playing for United, or any other top club, doesn't mean they're elite. As someone else above mentioned, all the top clubs have some lesser players playing.
Click to expand...
There's no salient difference other than reputation, then. Something which Welbeck also lacks, but the likes of Fergie and Arsene are willing to overlook.
 
KeninDC said:
Under LVG I suspect Welbeck's position would have been next to Herrera on the bench-and Wilson would have been in the reserves.
Click to expand...

If we had signed Falcao and kept Welbeck, yeah Danny would have been 4th choice at best and probably even behind Wilson who LvG seems to really like. So all and all, not really bothered that Danny was allowed to leave.

Now if we had kept Danny and not signed Falcao. The good thing is that Rooney would not be playing midfield (maybe) but Danny would still be at best 3rd choice, but since LvG evidentially rated Wilson ahead of Welbeck, maybe not.
 
So if we get back into the top four then all of our players become elite again? Sweet, the half year since we had nothing but elite players has been tough going....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.