I think you can put the Falcao/RVP debate purely down to Hernandez/Rooney/Welbeck not impressing LVG when they were given a chance up front. I don't recall seeing a great difference in United's performances with or without Welbeck. We are playing so slow now I doubt his speed would make any difference. If we went 1 up front I would still see Danny on the bench more often than not.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
- Status
If they can keep their places as regulars whilst we're playing the best sides in the world in the CL, they'll be elite.
Americans really don't seem to rate Welbeck.
Which Americans would you be referring to? Not sure I know if there are Americans on this forum, I'm sure there are some. But I don't know any.
I am American and I rate Welbeck
In that case Djimi Traore must have been some sort of superstar when Liverpool won the CL in 04/05. Along with Dudek, Baros, Rise, Luis Garcia, Biscan....
Nice one!
People in America.
I'm wondering if there's a pundit on US television who's unduly influencing opinions. The media has a lot of influence on opinions in the caf, from what I've seen (not just with yanks).
Liverpool finished 5th that year. They weren't elite, they played a 9 game season.
Interesting. People in America are Americans? Everyone who lives in America .. is an American. How about people on holiday here? Americans?
As someone who has moved here, I can't say I've noticed any pundit unduly influencing opinions regarding Welbeck. I'll keep an eye out for it though.
We still arguing the elite thing? I kind of hate myself for doing it but actually googled "elite athlete". According to a medical dictionary, from a research point of view anyone who plays a sport professionally would be considered elite.
@Keeps It tidy knows his onions, to be fair.
I have no idea why I'm arguing the toss over something that isn't even my opinion.Interesting.
My recollection of the pre-season is that Hernandez and Welbeck pretty much played at their standard level. Based on that (what I would call a representative set of performances) LVG decided Welbeck and Hernandez were surplus goods.
What gets lost in these discussions is that a player can be a good fit for one team and not another. Perhaps LVG wants a different skill set from his forwards than other managers. IIRC he thought Welbeck's skill set (pace, getting in behind defenders) didn't offset a finishing touch that LVG didn't consider up to his standards.
So-it's not a question of Welbeck vs Falcao in the abstract. Welbeck wasn't what LvG wanted given his template for a striker (better finisher maybe) in his system.
That doesn't mean Welbeck can't be productive at Arsenal, given Wenger's style of play.
So winning the CL didn't make them elite but qualifying for it the year before and the year after did?
This is a pointless argument but, seriously, if that's the standard were accepting as "elite" then it's a totally meaningless word in this sort of discussion. Any PL player could fit that criteria in the right circumstances and probably a few championship level players too...
True, if he agrees with your assessment of Welbeck, he must know his stuff.
Doing both at the same time makes for an elite club.
But can we attract elite fans and build that £500m transfer kitty?The bitterness regarding the Welbeck sale goes on. Yep, we would be so much better with him right now, like last season right? He's a donkey. Falcao is obviously a gamble that hasn't paid off, but keeping Welbeck would suddenly make us much better? Pfft, yeah right.
This 'elite' talk is possibly a new low for this thread, which I wouldn't have thought possible. Anyway the mourning over Welbeck is a bit strange since he's hardly ripping up trees this season (shocker I know). Would we be better with him than Falcao? Maybe but still not good enough, getting rid (considering he wasn't happy being a bench option) was the right choice even if the replacement wasn't.
I agree we need pace, you always need pace up front, I just dont think Welbeck was the solution and I was happy to see him go.
Totally agree.
With Sanchez and Giroud fit, I would expect to see less of Danny on the park as a striker. He does offer something different, but I doubt Wenger sees him as as a striker now he has Giroud back.
I think he is pretty well suited to a role as a wide forward in a 433.
Giroud has 7 goals in 9 starts. He doesn't run many channels. Is he better than our strikers too or do Arsenal just possess more creative players behind him?
Nah all those qualities along with a goalscoring or playmaking ability is rare. Just being strong, fast and decent technically makes you Antonio or Enner Valencia.
In another thread I proposed that if you play 1 striker up front, you need to have midfielders that can move beyond the opponents defense (which Arsenal have in abundance) and with the ability to score. This fear factor takes a lot of focus away from your single striker. Giroud does a lot of inter play with a mobile midfield. He is also very mobile himself. This style does leave you open, and as we all know Arsenal do get hit by quite a few sides. In answer to your question, I believe he is not better than our strikers, but he gets better service from a more creative midfield.
Exactly my point. RVP would have more in that system and we would play better as a team with him as the lone striker with the right players behind him.
Welbeck would have just made a difference if he played for us (which he wouldnt) and if he would play with players that offer link up play like Herrera, Mata.... not with Januzaj, Falcao, Fellaini or RvP. This discussion is pointless. If Welbeck played yesterday, we wouldnt be better. If he played in a 4-3-3 with players offering link up play etc, we would look miles better. At the moment, he wouldnt make a difference. I like him though and he didnt get a proper chance under LvG. I thought he would be great for us, but not as a pure striker.
There's no way of knowing how LvG would have changed his opinion as the season progressed. Fellaini is currently our 3rd choice striker and Herrera is persona non grata. I doubt even the manager saw that coming.
Have you not watched Arsenal play? And yes, on this season's form he's considerably better.
So, Welbeck wanted away because he was tired of always being benched and being shunted to the wing.
Now, he's shunted to the wing and even benched so that wingers can start in his preferred position.
I could see him just dropping off the radar in a year or two. I'd prefer Walcott up front over Welbeck too.
Now, he's shunted to the wing and even benched so that wingers can start in his preferred position.
I could see him just dropping off the radar in a year or two. I'd prefer Walcott up front over Welbeck too.
By all accounts Walcott was atrocious last night. Welbeck can expect to start the next league game. His 16th of the season. I'd say the move is working out very well for him.
How many matches has he played as a striker after the return of Giroud?
2 games as a striker, 7 on the wing.
He's coming back from injury which presumably accounts for him not featuring yesterday. Can't have been dropped given he was their best player against Spurs by some distance.
This.
It's also a myth that he wanted away because he was tired of being shunted out on the wing. He didn't like playing left of a 442 but was more than happy to play wide in a front three, which is where he's been getting games recently for Arsenal.
- Status