Liverpool paid 20m for a defender who can't defend in all fairness
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
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Liverpool paid 20m for a defender who can't defend in all fairness
And you're saying that as if a terrible thing? LVG didn't rate Welbeck, and so far he's been right. Danny Welbeck will be playing at Hull City in 3 years.
It's not a terrible thing, just something I disagree with. I can accept his point of view if he wants a particular kind of striker. Welbeck is never gonna be Falcao or RvP.
The thing I hate about this thread (and a lot of other threads on this forum, to be fair) is that posters draw their battle lines and argue that their favourites/targets are either perfectly good or perfectly bad. It irks me me that people have decided they don't like Welbeck and so everything he has ever done or ever will do is henceforth painted in a negative light. The evidence around his exit is ambiguous at best but conclusions have been drawn with unjustifiable certainty. That's what I'm trying to argue. There's a shade of grey there that too many are ignoring because they've decide that Welbeck is the bogeyman ever since since he missed that chance against Bayern. The same evidence for him forcing a move can be used to make it sound like he wanted to stay. So why not accept the version you don't like? Maybe I was a bit forceful in the way I put it across. I hold my hands up to that.
Harsh but more or less true. Danny lacks that extra mental dimension to his game that could bind his pace and athleticism into something special.
In other words, he's no Thierry Henry.
I know you've posted this in jest here, but why is this ever used as a stick to beat him with? Nobody's said he is, expect maybe a few overly optimistic youth forum posters a few years ago. It's not relevant to any discussion about the player now. It links back to my previous point about Welbeck's detractors.
Its not a stick to beat him with, just a point of reference since a few journos and Arse fans bandied it about shortly after the signing. I love Danny and he could've stayed with us and had a productive career as as squad player in the Wes Brown or O'Shea mold. He was however, not going to see much action under LvG and made the right decision to leave.
If one group of people keeps saying that letting him go was a huge mistake, obviously an other group will go to other extreme saying he's utter crap. It's how the internet works.
I think that's a tad harsh on him. While he's only decent as a finisher, he's a hard-working player who has a lot to his game. Even if he isn't a success at Arsenal, I think he'd be a potentially very useful forward for a team like Spurs or Everton.
I bet if we started talking about 1938 in the CE forum, there'd be people blaming Welbeck for Kristallnacht.
There's also a middle ground of people like myself who liked him but realized he made the right choice to leave, for his sake and ours.
I keep leaning towards this middle ground too but every time it gets implied as if selling us has run us into the ground it pushes me to the other extreme.
Only if there's provocation.
Well, he obviously wasn't the one who shot Ernst vom Rath. He'd have missed.
Everyone believes they're the in the moderate, middle ground.
From Arsenal Mania's Welbeck thread. All sounds a bit familiar, no?
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And on it goes like that. They've basically decided that he's a hard worker, has good movement, but isn't clinical enough in front of goal to be a top striker.
Penn said:
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Kroket said:
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Mastadon said:
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stiiphunn said:
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FinnGooner said:
And on it goes like that. They've basically decided that he's a hard worker, has good movement, but isn't clinical enough in front of goal to be a top striker.
Fools seldom differ
RVP has been in terrible form, Falcao has been injured and Rooney was suspended/playing in midfield etc.
Danny could have had gametime and if he performed well then he could keep one of the above out of the team (see: Fellaini)
You've cherry picked the opinions that tally with your own. There's as wide a range of view there as there is on here. Plenty of people are calling for patience because they can see what he brings now and what he'll eventually bring in time.
Which is?
Which was kind of my point. Some criticising him, some defending him and saying he'll come good - which mirrors the debate United fans were having about him for a few years.
But at what point does he start to leave no room for doubt (he's 24 tomorrow, so not that young anymore)?
More directness and, concomitantly, end product.
He might have played a bit more than Wilson, that is all, IMO.
Impossible to say, but all the ingredients are there and it's clear that he's a hard worker who's dedicated to self-improvement. There's too much to him for it not to get better. His ceiling is high enough for the naysayers to seem like idiots at this point. Keeping an open mind is the only acceptable opinion.
Great player, mediocre game against us. Doesn't change the opinion that selling him may have been shortsighted, given the struggles of Van Persie and Falcao.
Most managers would have been picked him ahead of RvP for the sake of injecting pace and workrate into the side. You could argue that LvG wouldn't have, but that's something which reflects badly on the manager rather than the player.
I prefer Wilson to Welbeck and I'm a huge fan of Danny's.
Look, in current form of both RvP and Welbeck, I might have given him a chance or 2 too. But the point is, under LvG, he would barely play.
First of all you are making a very big assumption, based on absolutely nothing. Then to justify your assumption, you say that because the manager didn't agree with your opinion (picking Welbeck over RVP) then this reflects bad on the manager.
I doubt that any manager would have picked Welbeck instead of RVP. And if we need someone upfront to inject pace, then we can play Di Maria there. He is better than Welbeck in everything. And well can remind you of Welbeck by losing easy chances.
It's based on the fact that LvG appears to be playing favourites with van Persie in refusing to drop him. It's not a controversial opinion to say that RvP has added little to our play this season. Welbeck has never failed to stretch the play for either United or Arsenal and has been doing more for his side this season as well (much better workrate, and 2 goals and 2 assists in fewer minutes despite playing in a philosophy he's completely new to). You're doing the same thing above, btw.
Di Maria's finishing is no better than Welbeck's and his hold up play is significantly worse. He's certainly not going to be able to hold his own against PL centrebacks with his back to goal.
If van Gaal were picking the eleven most in form players, RvP wouldn't be in the team. Welbeck has done better than him so far, all things considered.
A role he has never played in before.
The problem with welbeck this season was he just wouldn't get many chances. First choice is obviously two of Rooney, Falcao and Rvp (Rooney +1). After that, we have Wilson, but then we also have the option to only use 1 up top and have mata/Herrera/januzaj behind the striker. I'd still prefer that to welbeck up top. So really, what chances would welbeck get? He would never start as we don't have champions league football to rotate, all he would get would be sub's and would block Wilson's development, and comparing them as talents and potential, Wilson shits all over welbeck IMO.
So yes, we could have kept welbeck, but that would've done more harm then good for both Welbeck and United.
So yes, we could have kept welbeck, but that would've done more harm then good for both Welbeck and United.
No, I am not. RVP is a world class striker who has been a starter in every club. Sir Alex made him his main player here, and actually relegated Welbeck even below Chicha in the picking order. On England, the moment Sturridge is available, Welbeck gets shifted on the wing. And I predict that the same will happen on Arsenal, who anyway weren't interested on him until the final day.
Danny Welbeck is Lucas Leiva of this forum. While Leiva became better every game he didn't play, Welbeck becomes better with every game he gives an average/mediocre performance. Reading some of the comments here (especially from you) the reader may be forgiven for thinking that Welbeck is the reincarnation of Pele, Fat Ronaldo and Henry all in one.
To suggest that we did a mistake for allowing him to leave, after he hasn't show anything more than what he did here (making a lot of pointless runs and losing a lot of chances) is extremely weird. If he was setting the world on fire, then I would have agreed, but so far it looks that selling him was a completely justified decision.
At-least now finally he doesn't have the excuse of being shifted 5 meters from the central striker position, and neither the team isn't creating a lot of chances. Fortunately, he is playing as the main striker and their team creates chance after chance for him. Unfortunately for Arsenal, he is justifying people who said that he isn't a great/very good striker and has serious problems with finishing. Now someone remind me that he once scored 6 goals in 9 games and ignore the other 135 games.
Good luck with your crystal ball. At 23 (more probably 25 in Falcao's case), RvP had scored 10 in 50 league games for Arsenal and Falcao was a 1 in 3 striker for River Plate.
No need to be bitter just because we sold you a dud!
Van Persie tried to score though, he wasn't nearly as hesitant as Welbeck is. He'll improve no doubt but he'll never be a monster.
Real Madrid should buy him. He would be a perfect fit. They need a striker who doesn't score so Cristiano gets all the goals and stays happy.
Which is exactly the same player we sold to Arsenal. We've learned nothing new regarding Welbeck since he's joined Arsenal.
Yup. Same.
No, they wouldn't have to be forgiven. They'd have to be retarded.
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