Its so infuriating.
Danny Welbeck | Arsenal player
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
- Status
Its so infuriating.
That's definitely understating the problems in Van Persie's game yesterday. His work rate and hold up play were both exceptionally poor. He barely made an effort to challenge WBA's centrebacks in the air and was constantly conceding possession whilst not being willing to get stuck in and battle to get it back. Say what you like about Welbeck's finishing but all the above are things that he excels in.
On the other hand it's pretty key to remember that this game was an exceptional situation. Rooney and Falcao were both unable to start and I'd have played both of them over Welbeck in normal circumstances, he wanted starts and realistically he'd be at least 3rd choice if he was still here. He was right to go and we were justified in letting him but it's still nonsense to say he wouldn't have offered more than RVP last night.
How I'm not making any sense whatsoever, I don't know. I don't mind diverse opinions. Like you said, it's what makes the forum interesting. However, the fact that you constantly moan about the thread and continue to post in it baffles me. It's like saying you don't like a girl but constantly keep going back to pleasure her. That sir, is what makes no sense whatsoever.
No, you're still not making much sense. My comment directly correlated to the two posters that were bickering. I quite enjoy posting in this thread, to be honest. Your metaphor is miles off. I mean, there's some awful posts in here and plenty of nonsense, but I find it quite entertaining.
Yes but thats not why we drew against West brom.
So you're basically moaning about two posters bickering when you've just told me diverse opinions are what make the forum interesting. Sort yourself out, mate. I'd say my analogy was pretty spot on, to be honest.
Not definitely, but it certainly played a major part.
Im not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.
Did you read what the bickering was about? It was nothing whatsoever to do with Welbeck, so yeah, it was making the thread pretty tedious. It wasn't diverse opinion that was in any way related to the thread topic. So maybe you can 'sort yourself out'. My presence seems to bother you, so tell you what to do lad; stick me on ignore, it'll do us both a huge favour. I've tried playing nice with you, but you're a bit of a stalker, quite frankly. Please stop quoting me and go find someone else to annoy. Hope you get sorted soon and your analogy was utter shite.
i am arguing against because RVP not having pace is a low hanging fruit. If he scores instead of hitting the post we are having a different conversation. I also think the 4141 formation we played had a lot to do with RVP's poor performance.
Watch Arsenal play, Welbeck is having the same problem with the 4141 formation too.
My obsession with you seems to be similar to yours with Welbeck. Wouldn't you say so?
Oh dear God, pot kettle black once again. Because I disagree with your opinions on Welbeck, you have taken this weird obsession with me and quoting me for no reason whatsoever. This is a Welbeck thread, on a you know, football forum. Would you believe that I do indeed come to this exact place to discuss Welbeck. Please stop derailing the thread with your weird obsession.
Don't flatter yourself, mate. I have no problem with those against Welbeck. I only quote you because you come in here moaning about the state of the thread when you can't keep out. Just do me a favour and stop moaning about the state of the thread and you won't be bothered. Capiche?
It's not about not having pace (although that's obviously not ideal) it's about him not covering enough ground. As a lone striker, you're expected to either run yourself into the ground dragging the central defenders out of position (Rooney, Welbeck style) or use your physical presence to bully them off the ball (Drogba, Costa, Ibrahimovic style)
The RvP of these last 12-18 months doesn't cover much ground and loses almost every physical battle he gets involved with. He's more or less useless as a loan striker and last night made this painfully clear. Worth noting that the shot which hit the post you're talking about only happened after Falcao came on and started occupying their defenders in the box. Until then he'd caused them little or no problems at all.
Don't flatter yourself, mate. I have no problem with those against Welbeck. I only quote you because you come in here moaning about the state of the thread when you can't keep out. Just do me a favour and stop moaning about the state of the thread and you won't be bothered. Capiche?
Wow you're arrogant beyond belief. Capiche? I mean seriously? Patronising much? I will post what I want in this thread, thanks for your advice though. You are obsessed with me, it's really odd and makes me very uncomfortable. I won't be doing you - who I have actually never encountered until this thread - any 'favours' whatsoever. Capiche.
RVP was never that type of player though so i dont get what you are trying to say. And Falcao is stronger and Faster than RVP so of course he can occupy the defenders more. What i'm saying however is that the 4141 doesn't fit neither Mata or RVP. Mata couldn't find space and RVP was isolated.
And West Brom has allowed the 5th fewest goals so far this season.
I'm trying to answer your question.
Welbeck is "that type of player", so he would have done better as a lone striker than RvP did.
Leave it out.I've been called a lot of things in my lifetime but never arrogant. I guess there's a first time for everything, though.
Back to the thread, of course you can post what you want, but don't be surprised when I quote you if you're moaning about the state of the thread.
I've been called a lot of things in my lifetime but never arrogant. I guess there's a first time for everything, though.
Back to the thread, of course you can post what you want, but don't be surprised when I quote you if you're moaning about the state of the thread.
Just stop.
Grow up.
I'm sticking you on ignore now.
really? have u seen welbeck play in a 4141 for Arsenal?? he has the same problems RVP had yesterday, lack of space and barely involved in the game.
Youre missing the point completely. Pogue is talking about what we lack and what Welbeck brought to United when he played for us.
What he does for a different team in a different system isn't relevant..
No i'm not missing the point. I am highlighting how Welbeck performed in a similar formation. That should be taken into consideration no?
Arsenal must be absolutely delighted that they went for Welbeck as opposed to Balotelli. I believed at the time that Wenger might well of gotten the best out of Balotelli; but now, I'm not so sure, the guy is just an idiot it seems. Welbeck is a far better player for Wenger to work with.
Yeah, I think Balotelli is the more talented player overall, but unlike Welbeck he's just an idiot who is probably never going to live up to his potential because of it. Wenger will probably get all he can out of Welbeck, so probably a wise piece of business if you're judging which of the two to go for.
what? we are making sweeping judgements after seven games?? What does it mean that Balotelli is more talented than Welbeck? that is a generic statement no? What can either of them do that the other can't? What do they need to improve upon? Can they improve those deficiencies? once you answer these questions than you can better gauge the difference in each player's ability.
I think its very premature to start making definitve statements after 7-8 games.
Welbeck looks the better by so far, not much to add. Balotelli has been utter dross. I would imagine that in terms of attitude and work rate, Wenger will have a-lot more to work with when it comes to Welbeck than he would have had with Balotelli. I can only judge on what I have seen so far, and that is what I have seen.
This is why i like criticism to be specific because then its much easier to refute them. Balotelli's work rate and attitude has been good for Liverpool, his problem is surprisingly a lack of confidence and composure in hiss finishing. While Welbeck's problem has been his lack confidence with making the long pass to his running teammate. Something that should be essential to a striker that drops into midfield.
Hmmm, several times when I have watched Balotelli for Liverpool, he seems to have a very laid back attitude. Milan seem delighted that they got rid and Rodgers hasn't spoken too highly of him. I saw Carragher say today that he should be dropped for the Madrid match; people aren't singing his praises. Granted, I don't think he's as bad as he's shown himself to be so far.
Welbeck has been Welbeck so far for Arsenal. He has shown some good moments, had some shocking misses but has typically worked his bollox off. I certainly don't think he'll be as good a signing as some seem to think on here; aka, Henry MK 2. But I do wish we hadn't sold him to Arsenal and also wish we had of got more than we did. I don't think he will set the world alight at Arsenal but he will be a damn good signing for the money they paid.
I think it's worth comparing the two so far: They have similar styles, similar physiques, cost a similar amount and Arsenal apparently wanted Balotelli. So far, it's looking like Welbeck will be the better signing but I'm realistic and it's entirely plausible that Balotelli will turn it around. It's very early days.
Milan was before and liverpool is now so i dont see how that can come into this discussion. I've seen balotelli press and work hard this season, something he hasnt done before. I never expected Rodgers to stick up more for Balotelli because Rodgers has demonstrated that if your name is not Gerrard or Suarez, he wont let you get in the way of his genius. Like i said the only problem i see with balotelli is that he's trying too hard to score which leads to making other bad decisions with the ball. Decisions he doesn't usually make.
Welbeck IMO is an incomplete player. He has displayed at times that he has the tools to be a top striker. Now whether he progresses and starts to consistently display those attributes is another matter altogether. I dont think he should be compared to Henry b/c there's only one Henry. 5 goals in 7 games is a good return for 16m 23yo striker.
As far Liverpool, Rodgers transfer history is terrible. His only good buys were moreno, sturridge and coutinho. And that's not even mentioning the fact that its the board that bought Sturridge. Not Rodgers. He wanted Clint Dempsey
Sakho is a better CB than Lovren(who they paid more for by the way). And they let Agger go to some Danish team Wisdom currently on loan at West Brom is performing better than Johnson has in the past 3-4 years. THat team has a lot more pressing problems than a misfiring balotelli.Milan was before and liverpool is now so i dont see how that can come into this discussion. I've seen balotelli press and work hard this season, something he hasnt done before. I never expected Rodgers to stick up more for Balotelli because Rodgers has demonstrated that if your name is not Gerrard or Suarez, he wont let you get in the way of his genius. Like i said the only problem i see with balotelli is that he's trying too hard to score which leads to making other bad decisions with the ball. Decisions he doesn't usually make.
Welbeck IMO is an incomplete player. He has displayed at times that he has the tools to be a top striker. Now whether he progresses and starts to consistently display those attributes is another matter altogether. I dont think he should be compared to Henry b/c there's only one Henry. 5 goals in 7 games is a good return for 16m 23yo striker.
As far Liverpool, Rodgers transfer history is terrible. His only good buys were moreno, sturridge and coutinho. And that's not even mentioning the fact that its the board that bought Sturridge. Not Rodgers. He wanted Clint Dempsey
Well the Milan point is fairly valid, to be fair. Their president recently said how glad they were to get rid of Balotelli. That's pretty cutting and doesn't paint Balotelli in a good light. It's also not so good when Carragher is calling for him to be dropped, considering their options up top are pretty horrendous. I haven't been impressed by him so far at Liverpool; when the chips are down, I don't think he's the kind of player you want around. He has seemed rather disinterested at times this season and clearly is lacking confidence. But, he is absolutely nowhere near as bad as some on here have made out. He can be a good player, but it feels like for that to happen, everything has to be going his way.
Yes, the comparisons between Welbeck and Henry, I find laughable. Henry was probably the best striker to grace the league and one of the best in the world. Welbeck will never reach Henry's level. I agree that Welbeck certainly has the tools to be a good striker, though. I think he still has a-lot to work on and badly needs to sort his confidence out in front of goal. It's something that is massively holding him back.
But yeah, I generally agree with what you're saying. I'm certainly not making any definitive conclusions on either player and how they might fare in the future. I have serious reservations about both, if the truth be told.
That is revisionism at its finest.
This is the worse thread of all time, worse than doge thread.
I'd imagine everyone posting in this thread has watched both players in a hell of a lot more than 7-8 games of football.
Which also explains why so many of us were able to accurately predict how those 7-8 games would pan out.
no because if that was the case balotelli would have had more than 1 goal at liverpool with terrible work rate while Welbeck would be contributing to Arsenal's overall play while barely scoring. You can use what they did for their past teams to gauge what they are good at or where they can improve. But they have to solely be judged for what they've done for their current team, what are the positives, what are the negatives, is the forecast great ? if not then how much more patience do you need before making a judgement on the player.
Taking the negatives at their previous teams when making a judgement on their current situation would incite bias. Especially when they aren't having the same problems they've had in their past teams(in Balotelli's case).
Wow. That's some stream of consciousness. Let me put it another way. Welbeck's been predictably decent for Arsenal, Balotelli's been predictably shit for Liverpool. So obvious things would pan out this way. Hence I'm one of dozens of caftards who got both predictions absolutely spot on.
I feel like Arsenal fans should contribute something to this thread.
A bit like Liverpool fans feel about Balotelli then?
i'm just trying to use common sense. Unless you think its wrong for me to do so?
Before you go on about common sense led you to predict that Welbeck would be decent for Arsenal and Balotelli shit for liverpool. Balotelli had 30 in 80(8assists) for City and 30 in 54(12 assists) for Milan. So you see where the 1 in 9 for Liverpool might be an outlier right? or do you still think that's shit?
And if we were going by Welbeck's record with us as a starting striker is 29 in 149(21 assists). Before you say he played on the left, so did balotelli for city and inter. But you gave him a decent chance at arsenal why? because the attributes that he displayed with us(united) made you think he possessed the qualities to be a successful striker.
or do you still think that's shit?And if we were going by Welbeck's record with us as a starting striker is 29 in 149(21 assists). Before you say he played on the left, so did balotelli for city and inter. But you gave him a decent chance at arsenal why? because the attributes that he displayed with us(united) made you think he possessed the qualities to be a successful striker.
Welbz: 5
RVP + Falcao: 3
RVP + Falcao: 3
- Status