Danny Welbeck 2015/16

I'm originally from Levenshulme (next door to Longsight) so I am probably incredibly biased with regards Welbeck.

He was never going to be the main man but seemed to be the perfect kind of foil for whoever we made the main man. Hard working, tactically disciplined, a physical handful for opponents and not without a degree of technical merit. Sure his end product could be a bit ropey but his application would have allowed another forward to be a bit more focused purely on attack (lazy for want of a better word). Considering we had RVP and Rooney, two ageing and physically declining strikers, at the club last season he would have made for a sensible partner for either of them (or even Falcao) rather than shoehorning two of them (sometimes three) in to the same line-up.

Why exactly he left I don't know but would speculate that if LVG had embraced him and offered him regular playing time then he wouldn't have left his boyhood club. Welbeck wouldn't have made us a great team but he would have set a far better example than those whom LVG chose to back (RVP, Rooney and Falcao).
 
I don't really blame LvG for selling him because he couldn't hit a barn door for us, but it's looking like a mistake, and it's a stick I'll happily use to hit LvG with if needs be because of all other genuine errors he has made.
 
Quite amusing to see so many pro-Welbeck posts yet most of them admit that he could only ever be a 'squad player' here at best. Yet when we inevitably lose to Man City and West Ham thanks in no small part to an excess of mediocre squad players in midfield and on the right wing there will be a clamour for dumping said squad players in favour of signing big names.
 
I liked Welbeck a lot. Didn't want him to go. From what he has said since he left, he wasn't exactly forced out and it was at least a mutual decision. So what can you do? Seems harsh to criticise the club for him leaving.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Yeah, Fergie was so impressed that he splashed out on RvP.

He's a limited player. When everyone is fit, he'd barely play for Leicester, Spurs or City.
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You've picked the teams with the top three strikers in the Premier League.

So that criticism amounts to him not being in the top three strikers. Which I don't think anybody is claiming.
 
m1y2 said:
top class here, top class there, he would certainly be good enough for us to start games, like he did under fergie when he did fantastically well, he developed since even though missed so many games due to his problems with knee. Martial will become top class talent but in every team where Martial is there is Danny Welbeck, and we will see if Memphis or Januzaj will ever be as good as Welbeck
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He never did "fantastically well" for us. Fantastic are players like De Gea, Vidic, Evra etc. There was a period where he struck up a good partnership with Rooney but all in all he didn't seem to have it in him to reach the levels that we needed from our starting striker, or forward. And let's not pretend everything would be as it was under Fergir either. We're a mess of a team and if we can drag down players like Schweinsteiger then our dysfunctional team can certainly drag to a lower level an inferior player like Welbeck.

Every team does need good squad players and we could have used Hernandez or Welbeck for that role on the squad. But the issue when you let an option/squad player go, is replacing them well given they tend to be very replaceable. That's what we screwed up, but can correct in the summer.
 
Selling him was only a mistake if you believe the level Arsenal are currently at is where we should aspire to be.

So in hindsight, it was probably a pretty bad move. But then again, who would have thought that we'd feck it up so badly?
 
Sultan said:
Clubs are not just about 11 players these days. It's about a squad. We'd easily have been in the top four and possibly gone further in European competitions with Wellbs and Hernandez.
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Both Welbeck and Hernandez have said they left because they didn't want to be squad players though. Sir Alex was a great motivator but even he moved players on when they became visibly unhappy.
 
Brwned said:
Both Welbeck and Hernandez have said they left because they didn't want to be squad players though. Sir Alex was a great motivator but even he moved players on when they became visibly unhappy.
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I think the problem is that he was TOLD he'd be a squad player. If we'd had great options up front fair enough but LvG ranked him behind three strikers past their best. Two of which are no longer here.

Fergie did kind of do this with Rossi.
 
Dobbs said:
A United manager should never sell talented Mancunians.
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Definitely. Burns me that Thorpe and Pearson have all left without even being given a shot. I don't trust Van Gaal's appraisal of young players. Unless Warren Joyce comes out and says it was right for them to leave I'll remain livid.

Isotope said:
He was told as 4th choice striker. Considering at that time we only played with 1 striker, his prime age, and future spot as England striker, his decision to move was a sensible one.

The decision to make him 4th choice though. All things considered, that was an awful one.
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Van Gaal's man management is truly appalling. But we were playing two strikers up front at the time playing 3-5-2. Possibly attributing to Welbeck leaving being that we weren't playing with out and out left and right sided players. Rather wingbacks. Just a speculation on my part that it left even less room for him to get into the side.
 
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Perrick Dubois said:
Definitely. Burns me that Thorpe and Pearson have all left without even being given a shot. I don't trust Van Gaal's appraisal of young players. Unless Warren Joyce comes out and says it was right for them to leave I'll remain livid.
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I am sure I read the other day that Thorpe hasn't impressed at Rotherham and doesn't play. Not sure about Pearson, however.
 
MThomas said:
“When you’ve been somewhere for so long and then you’re going to start a new chapter in your career, you’ve got to think about it a lot. Over the past year or so, I started to think about what’s best for me,” he said according to the Manchester Evening News."

Plenty of talk about it when Moyes singled him out in comments about not training well enough etc.
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Translation: "I don't really want to play for Moyes for the next six years."
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He never did "fantastically well" for us. Fantastic are players like De Gea, Vidic, Evra etc. There was a period where he struck up a good partnership with Rooney but all in all he didn't seem to have it in him to reach the levels that we needed from our starting striker, or forward. And let's not pretend everything would be as it was under Fergir either. We're a mess of a team and if we can drag down players like Schweinsteiger then our dysfunctional team can certainly drag to a lower level an inferior player like Welbeck.

Every team does need good squad players and we could have used Hernandez or Welbeck for that role on the squad. But the issue when you let an option/squad player go, is replacing them well given they tend to be very replaceable. That's what we screwed up, but can correct in the summer.
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I dont know about that, who is Sweinsteigger, he is just squad rotation player, in one game he looks great the other looks like he is 50 years old... Welbeck was constantly getting us better under fergie, decent manager would make him a great player. If you dislike Welbeck you can say it, he was played consistently well for us, Vidic and Evra were nowhere near Welbeck at their respective age... can agree with very little you just said..

If you just couldnt stand some of his misses then just simply get over it! he's not a striker
 
When Danny Welbeck left United, he was 23. I think you guys are being fairly harsh on him considering that he was a regular feature in a Fergie team from the ages of 19-22. That's impressive for any position, let alone an attacker.

With some of the posts in here, you'd think there is a United player with more than 7 Premier League goals this season. Welbeck would walk into your team right now.. and anybody who isn't blinkered will admit that.
 
The Purist said:
When Danny Welbeck left United, he was 23. I think you guys are being fairly harsh on him considering that he was a regular feature in a Fergie team from the ages of 19-22. That's impressive for any position, let alone an attacker.

With some of the posts in here, you'd think there is a United player with more than 7 Premier League goals this season. Welbeck would walk into your team right now.. and anybody who isn't blinkered will admit that.
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He absolutely would.

I think the idea is meant to be that he wouldn't walk into this ideal team that we don't have, nor have we ever looked like having... Or something.
 
Sir A1ex said:
See: Drinkwater, Danny.

Will be odd seeing him collecting his Premier league medal.
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I hope he and Simspon do. What a story, Manc's not leaving for greener pastures because of ability and then going on to win silverware while not with Manchester United. Incredible story really, I'll be chuffed to bits for them.
 
m1y2 said:
top class here, top class there, he would certainly be good enough for us to start games, like he did under fergie when he did fantastically well, he developed since even though missed so many games due to his problems with knee. Martial will become top class talent but in every team where Martial is there is Danny Welbeck, and we will see if Memphis or Januzaj will ever be as good as Welbeck
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You definitely have a pretty low standard for being top class.
 
I dont understand. Danny wanted to play more upfront. He was a very average finisher (frustratingly missing easy chances, confused whether to pass or shoot when reaching the box) given the enormous amount of chances he got at Utd. Except a string of 6 games where everything fell in place for him, he never maintained any kind of level.
He had his uses, his pace and his runs clearly confused the opposition. But then that's it. All matches are not played that way.

And hence he could not be guaranteed starts. He was clearly not happy with that option and left. Just because the entire team plays like a bunch of dodos doesn't make any ex-player suddenly God like.
It is just a typical characteristic of almost any fan forum to glorify the players who are not in the team and slating those currently in. Good example is Januzaj suddenly becoming world class option rotting on bench
 
The Purist said:
When Danny Welbeck left United, he was 23. I think you guys are being fairly harsh on him considering that he was a regular feature in a Fergie team from the ages of 19-22. That's impressive for any position, let alone an attacker.

With some of the posts in here, you'd think there is a United player with more than 7 Premier League goals this season. Welbeck would walk into your team right now.. and anybody who isn't blinkered will admit that.
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That means feck all in terms of him leaving at the time. It is so easy in hindsight to say we were wrong to sell him bla bla bla. The team is so weak that just about any striker in the PL would walk into it.
 
Dobbs said:
You've picked the teams with the top three strikers in the Premier League.

So that criticism amounts to him not being in the top three strikers. Which I don't think anybody is claiming.
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No I picked the teams around Arsenals current position. I've already admitted he'd be very useful at United, as well as several other teams. But not the ones currently in contention to win something.
 
MDFC Manager said:
No I picked the teams around Arsenals current position. I've already admitted he'd be very useful at United, as well as several other teams. But not the ones currently in contention to win something.
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They just happen to be the teams who have the top three strikers in the country. You're right, you wouldn't drop Vardy, Aguero or Kane for him. Given we don't have a striker performing anything like that I don't really see your point.
 
Dobbs said:
They just happen to be the teams who have the top three strikers in the country. You're right, you wouldn't drop Vardy, Aguero or Kane for him. Given we don't have a striker performing anything like that I don't really see your point.
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I find it strange that you can't see the clear point. We need strikers of the level the three you've mentioned in order to challenge for championships. This has been proved time and again.

That Welbeck would be useful for us currently means very little, because we need to aim much higher than our current level. It's quite simple.
 
MDFC Manager said:
I find it strange that you can't see the clear point. We need strikers of the level the three you've mentioned in order to challenge for championships. This has been proved time and again.

That Welbeck would be useful for us currently means very little, because we need to aim much higher than our current level. It's quite simple.
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A squad is made up of differing ability levels, you don't sell players just because they're not in the top three of their respective position.
 
Dobbs said:
A squad is made up of differing ability levels, you don't sell players just because they're not in the top three of their respective position.
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Yes I agree with you on that. But having said that, we'd probably not be saying this or having this discussion if Wilson had progressed sufficiently. Which I believe was a key factor in letting Welbeck go. Add in failed signings like Falcao, rapid decline of Rooney and RvP and not using Hernandez is making it look like letting Welbeck go was a poor decision.
 
The reasons given for selling Danny were - he doesn't score enough goals and to open Wilson's door to the first team. Then when Falcao couldn't hit a barn door, the excuse given was that you can't judge a striker only by the number of goals he scores. :rolleyes:

Now Wilson is on loan, Falcao is gone & we still can't score goals.

It's was flabbergasting that we sold the only striker with pace in our ranks; someone who could get behind the opposition defense and actually make that stupid 352 work better than it did.

To let him go was another one of the pseudo-***********'s genius works.

Though the stupidity didn't end there - we actually sold him for peanuts to one our rivals on the last day of the transfer window when they desperately needed a striker, and had earlier refused to sell even a perma-crock defender to us.

Danny's sale is the microcosm of the great VG-Woody tango that has been unfurled on us.
 
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MDFC Manager said:
Yes I agree with you on that. But having said that, we'd probably not be saying this or having this discussion if Wilson had progressed sufficiently. Which I believe was a key factor in letting Welbeck go. Add in failed signings like Falcao, rapid decline of Rooney and RvP and not using Hernandez is making it look like letting Welbeck go was a poor decision.
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Agree but all I'd add is that we don't need hindsight to see it was a mistake. Sometimes it's easy to look back and point out an error but at the time we knew this was a blunder. The three strikers ahead of him were all around 30, already declining physically and between them hadn't produced a top season for at least a year.

I never bought the idea we sold him to bring Wilson through. He's still a couple of years away from being ready (assuming he ever will be).
 
kouroux said:
That means feck all in terms of him leaving at the time. It is so easy in hindsight to say we were wrong to sell him bla bla bla. The team is so weak that just about any striker in the PL would walk into it.
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What has hindsight got to do with it? Many people said at the time it was a mistake. We were selling our only striker with any pace and mobility to a rival. It was blatantly obvious to many that he was the type of player we needed to be keeping. There were hundreds of posts on here to that effect.
 
Insanity said:
The reasons given for selling Danny were - he doesn't score enough goals and to open Wilson's door to the first team. Then when Falcao couldn't hit a barn door, the excuse given was that you can't judge a striker only by the number of goals he scores. :rolleyes:

Now Wilson is on loan, Falcao is gone & we still can't score goals.

It's was flabbergasting that we sold the only striker with pace in our ranks; someone who could get behind the opposition defense and actually make that stupid 352 work better than it did.

To let him go was another one of the pseudo-***********'s genius works.

Though the stupidity didn't end there - we actually sold him for peanuts to one our rivals on the last day of the transfer window when they desperately needed a striker, and had earlier refused to sell even a perma-crock defender to us.

Danny's sale is the microcosm of the great VG-Woody tango that has been unfurled on us.
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You talk as if we sold Messi in his prime for 2 mill. Welbeck scored 4 PL goals last season. Falcao scored 4 too. Falcao was a risk we should definitely have taken. He was the best pure striker till a year before he was signed. Welbeck didnt want to be 4th/5th choice at united and wanted to move. Any manager would have done the same. VG did a lot of mistakes but selling welbeck is the one of the good things he probably did.

We wanted to keep him. But he didnt want to fight for his place with rooney rvp falcao and wilson. At the end of the day, he didn't believe he was good enough either and chose to leave. simple.
 
Insanity said:
The reasons given for selling Danny were - he doesn't score enough goals and to open Wilson's door to the first team. Then when Falcao couldn't hit a barn door, the excuse given was that you can't judge a striker only by the number of goals he scores. :rolleyes:

Now Wilson is on loan, Falcao is gone & we still can't score goals.
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Yep, that was the narrative back then, it was really funny because it was quite obvious Wilson isn't ready and with every passing week Falcao was worse.
 
Insanity said:
The reasons given for selling Danny were - he doesn't score enough goals and to open Wilson's door to the first team. Then when Falcao couldn't hit a barn door, the excuse given was that you can't judge a striker only by the number of goals he scores. :rolleyes:
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same with Rooney, he supposedly offers more than scoring goals
 
m1y2 said:
Welbz is great player, the problem here was/is that too many people saw him as no9 striker which he isn't even himself, can be great wide forward, sort of what Martial is for us.. not as much pressure for him to score from there and defo good enough goalscorer from that role, not talking about all other things he brings to the team which alone make him valuable player..
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Brwned said:
:lol:

Too many people, including himself?
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Thought this was appropriate for this thread.

I love this gem:

"Nobody can really criticise my finishing because they don't really see me playing in a forward position too often."
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It's like Mata saying noone can criticize his lack of upper body strength.
 
SteveW said:
What has hindsight got to do with it? Many people said at the time it was a mistake. We were selling our only striker with any pace and mobility to a rival. It was blatantly obvious to many that he was the type of player we needed to be keeping. There were hundreds of posts on here to that effect.
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Hernandez had pace? Martial and Rashford now have pace?
 
m1y2 said:
I dont know about that, who is Sweinsteigger, he is just squad rotation player, in one game he looks great the other looks like he is 50 years old... Welbeck was constantly getting us better under fergie, decent manager would make him a great player. If you dislike Welbeck you can say it, he was played consistently well for us, Vidic and Evra were nowhere near Welbeck at their respective age... can agree with very little you just said..
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And therein lies the contradiction itself. Everyone was better under Fergie. Our assistant manager was better under Fergie. The fans were better under Fergie. I bet our tea lady made better tea under Fergie as well. That has absolutely no relevance here since we've collapsed as a football club since SAF.

Any decent manager would make him a great player? SAF didn't and Moyes didn't. So far, Wenger hasn't either.

m1y2 said:
If you dislike Welbeck you can say it, he was played consistently well for us, Vidic and Evra were nowhere near Welbeck at their respective age... can agree with very little you just said..
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If you like Welbeck a tad too much then you can say it. Age is irrelevant, he wasn't fantastic for us and those player definitely were.

m1y2 said:
If you just couldnt stand some of his misses then just simply get over it! he's not a striker
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Except he is a striker. And if he's winger then Martial is miles better and hopefully Memphis becomes a quality player too. Not too fussed over a "not a striker" striker being sold.
 
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