Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

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This isn't even debatable, Balotelli broke through younger than Welbeck and has scored more goals than him in every season Welbeck has played. Honestly, put your fanaticism aside and stop this nonsense.
 
Lynk said:
As much of a cock as Balotelli is, it doesn't stop him from being a good player. He could be world class, attitude is stopping him from reaching that. But still, at present ability he is far better than Welbeck.
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Based on what? They're both at roughly the same place for both their clubs and countries, they both scored a decent amount of goals last year (the difference being made up by Balotelli's penalty) and they're both having a difficult season having being pushed down the pecking order. The difference is that when Danny struggles he still works hard and helps the team. When Balotelli isn't playing well he's a complete fecking liability.

Mario Balotelli is not only more talented than Danny Welbeck, he's more talented than any footballer of his age in the world. I'd still rather have Danny in my squad.



I love having Balotelli in the league, he's hugely entertaining, but I would not want him anywhere near my football club.
 
Lynk said:
As much of a cock as Balotelli is, it doesn't stop him from being a good player. He could be world class, attitude is stopping him from reaching that. But still, at present ability he is far better than Welbeck.
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Yes it does. Repeatedly.
 
Chabon said:
Mario Balotelli is not only more talented than Danny Welbeck, he's more talented than any footballer of his age in the world. I'd still rather have Danny in my squad.
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Fair enough, as a 4th choice striker I would as well.
ciderman9000000 said:
Yes it does. Repeatedly.
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He scored 17 goals last season for City. Tore Germany apart in the Euros. He's a good fecking player.
 
Brosstan said:
If someone offered ~15m for Welbeck, would you sell? Personally I would. Hes a good enough squad player but will never be a player that gives us the final step to go from very good team to title winners. Honestly, which top half teams in the Prem would swap their main striker or forward for Welbeck?

Im disappointed at the kind of stagnation he has shown in his development. He has been granted a lot of time on the pitch for a youngster at a club of our stature, but he really hasnt developed much the last year or so. He seems to have hit a plateau considerably earlier than I hoped.

As of right now he has plenty of players ahead of him in every position, and the position he gets game time in he doesnt even have the skillset to play properly.
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I'd imagine Chelsea and Arsenal would and he'd be getting games at Liverpool and possibly Spurs. He hasn't played much in his proper position the kid is going to be a player once the goals come we will be saying he is the best blah blah blah. This cafe goes from one extreme to another personally I'm more than happy with Danny and I wouldn't sell him for £15m.
 
Lynk said:
He scored 17 goals last season for City. Tore Germany apart in the Euros. He's a good fecking player.
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He nearly cost City the league with his petulant, childish bullshit all season; City would have been far better off without him. He's a liability.
 
The notion that Danny Welbeck isn't good enough to lead the line for a title-challenging team is a little confusing. Didn't he do exactly that last season?

Hell, he was even man of the match in the game which would have won us the title but for the ridiculous collapse at the end.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
He nearly cost City the league with his petulant, childish bullshit all season; City would have been far better off without him. He's a liability.
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Seeing as how they won it on goal difference. And he scored 13 goals, I would disagree.
 
Chabon said:
The notion that Danny Welbeck isn't good enough to lead the line for a title-challenging team is a little confusing. Didn't he do exactly that last season?

Hell, he was even man of the match in the game which would have won us the title but for the ridiculous collapse at the end.
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Title challenging? Sure.

Title winning? No.



Even with last season's form, 9 goals in the league/12 overall, is nowhere near clinical enough.
 
I'm not blaming him solely, jesus. I'm saying 9 league goals as a the main striker for a team like United isn't good enough. Van Persie has already surpassed it and it's only early December.
 
It doesn't matter who scores the goals, it matters that they are scored.
 
Uhhh...yeah. And why settle for 9 league goals when you could have a striker who scores 25+?
 
Hughes, Cole and even Rooney have often had seasons where they didn't score many but we won the league. It's a perfectly decent way of doing things to have a striker who doesn't score a huge amount but brings the rest of the attack together.

Our problem last season wasn't the attack but the defence. Fergie's responded to this by taking an already great attack and ramming it with so much talent that it will almost certainly break premier league records. That's one way of doing things, of course, but you can't use it as a stick to beat last season's attack with.
 
Welbeck twice the player mario is? Seriously?? I wouldn't want Mario here just because of his attitude but If he can improve that then he could be a pretty good player imo. We will see how it goes with welbeck, still prettty young and looks good sometimes.
 
Lynk said:
Uhhh...yeah. And why settle for 9 league goals when you could have a striker who scores 25+?
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How many sides have 2 strikers who both score 25+? Normally one has to take a more unselfish role.

You are comparing a 21 year old (last season when he played as a striker) with a 28/9 year old and using it as a reason to write the younger player off. How has Wayne Rooney done goalscoring-wise since becoming the unselfish partner?
 
TheBest said:
Welbeck twice the player mario is? Seriously?? I wouldn't want Mario here just because of his attitude but If he can improve that then he could be a pretty good player imo. We will see how it goes with welbeck, still prettty young and looks good sometimes.
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Hence Welbeck being twice the player. Nobody wants Balotelli.
 
Rooney is dropping deeper and deeper to make up for midfield deficiencies and lack of protection for the back 4.

Chabon said:
Hughes, Cole and even Rooney have often had seasons where they didn't score many but we won the league. It's a perfectly decent way of doing things to have a striker who doesn't score a huge amount but brings the rest of the attack together.
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Sure. But those players showed they could score 20 goals + a season. Welbeck hasn't yet, therefore I don't think he can be trusted to be our main striker.
 
Right, I'm reposting this list I made last summer. These are goalscoring stats for the season in which the following players turned 21:

Llorente: 4 goals in 25 appearances for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga
Torres: 13 goals in 40 appearances for Atletico Madrid in La Liga
Villa: 20 goals in 48 for Gijon in Segunda Liga
Klose: 0 goals in 0 appearances for Kaiserslauten in the Bundesliga
Gomez: 8 goals in 38 appearances for Stuttgart in the Bundesliga
V. Persie: 10 goals in 41 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League
Huntelaar: 19 goals in 39 appearances for Heerenveen in the Eredivisie
Welbeck: 12 goals in 39 appearances for Manchester United in the Premier League
Di Natale: 12 goals in 25 appearances for Viareggio in Serie C
Lewandowski: 21 goals in 34 appearances for Lech Poznan in the Ekstraklasa,
Ibrahimovic: 21 in 42 for Ajax in the Eredivisie
Benzema: 23 in 47 for Lyon in Ligue 1

Does Danny Welbeck look out of place in that list?

I see no reason to believe Danny won't become much more prolific later in his career, although signing Van Persie was always going to mean the next two seasons will be difficult for him.
 
Van Persie played on the wings solely at that age, probably should be excluded. But seeing as he's 3rd bottom, probably yeah?
 
Chabon said:
Right, I'm reposting this list I made last summer. These are goalscoring stats for the season in which the following players turned 21:

Llorente: 4 goals in 25 appearances for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga
Torres: 13 goals in 40 appearances for Atletico Madrid in La Liga
Villa: 20 goals in 48 for Gijon in Segunda Liga
Klose: 0 goals in 0 appearances for Kaiserslauten in the Bundesliga
Gomez: 8 goals in 38 appearances for Stuttgart in the Bundesliga
V. Persie: 10 goals in 41 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League
Huntelaar: 19 goals in 39 appearances for Heerenveen in the Eredivisie
Welbeck: 12 goals in 39 appearances for Manchester United in the Premier League
Di Natale: 12 goals in 25 appearances for Viareggio in Serie C
Lewandowski: 21 goals in 34 appearances for Lech Poznan in the Ekstraklasa,
Ibrahimovic: 21 in 42 for Ajax in the Eredivisie
Benzema: 23 in 47 for Lyon in Ligue 1

Does Danny Welbeck look out of place in that list?

I see no reason to believe Danny won't become much more prolific later in his career, although signing Van Persie was always going to mean the next two seasons will be difficult for him.
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Good stuff and the only players higher than him in a league of comparative quality/standard are Torres and RVP.
 
Also he scored 9 league goals, not 12.
 
Chabon said:
Right, I'm reposting this list I made last summer. These are goalscoring stats for the season in which the following players turned 21:

Llorente: 4 goals in 25 appearances for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga
Torres: 13 goals in 40 appearances for Atletico Madrid in La Liga
Villa: 20 goals in 48 for Gijon in Segunda Liga
Klose: 0 goals in 0 appearances for Kaiserslauten in the Bundesliga
Gomez: 8 goals in 38 appearances for Stuttgart in the Bundesliga
V. Persie: 10 goals in 41 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League
Huntelaar: 19 goals in 39 appearances for Heerenveen in the Eredivisie
Welbeck: 12 goals in 39 appearances for Manchester United in the Premier League
Di Natale: 12 goals in 25 appearances for Viareggio in Serie C
Lewandowski: 21 goals in 34 appearances for Lech Poznan in the Ekstraklasa,
Ibrahimovic: 21 in 42 for Ajax in the Eredivisie
Benzema: 23 in 47 for Lyon in Ligue 1

Does Danny Welbeck look out of place in that list?

I see no reason to believe Danny won't become much more prolific later in his career, although signing Van Persie was always going to mean the next two seasons will be difficult for him.
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Batistuta - 2 goals in 10 appearances.
RVN - 12 goals in 31 appearances.
Falcao - 7 goals in 25 appearances.
Drogba - 7 goals in 32 appearances.
Baggio - 9 goals in 34 appearances.

Pretty sure these didn't play on the wing.
 
Chabon said:
Hughes, Cole and even Rooney have often had seasons where they didn't score many but we won the league. It's a perfectly decent way of doing things to have a striker who doesn't score a huge amount but brings the rest of the attack together.
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All makes sense but its bs to claim that Welbeck is the player who brings the attack together for us.

He doesnt seem to be doing much at all lately. Passenger.

He should be played as an up and coming striker and be given play time as such, coming on as a sub late in games or play in place of RVP or Rooney against easy opposition and dead rubber games, with a full functioning squad around him. Playing him a lot and out of position seems to make him complacent. Whats the point of working to prove his place in the team if hes played regardless, and not even in the right position? Hes a forward. He should see that as the spot hes trying to claim, even with Rooney, RVP and Hernandez in front of him.
 
Brosstan said:
A bit unfair to compare him to RVP, but you still have a point. I dont think it would be too hard for us to replace Welbeck and be stronger off as a result.
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You won't find many decent strikers willing to be 4th choice and also versatile as well in fairness.

Plus he is 22, if he is performing this way at 25 he would be gone.
 
Wonder how many on that list were penalty takers too

Be interesting to compare with Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Solskjaer etc etc.. but really whats the point.
 
Brosstan said:
All makes sense but its bs to claim that Welbeck is the player who brings the attack together for us.

He doesnt seem to be doing much at all lately. Passenger.

He should be played as an up and coming striker and be given play time as such, coming on as a sub late in games or play in place of RVP or Rooney against easy opposition and dead rubber games, with a full functioning squad around him. Playing him a lot and out of position seems to make him complacent. Whats the point of working to prove his place in the team if hes played regardless, and not even in the right position? Hes a forward. He should see that as the spot hes trying to claim, even with Rooney, RVP and Hernandez in front of him.
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We squeeze him into the team regardless of position to keep him happy. It's the side effect of having too many top class strikers. Why give Nani the spot ahead of him when he's on his way out in the summer. At least that's what I believe SAF is thinking.
 
Brosstan said:
If someone offered ~15m for Welbeck, would you sell? Personally I would. Hes a good enough squad player but will never be a player that gives us the final step to go from very good team to title winners. Honestly, which top half teams in the Prem would swap their main striker or forward for Welbeck?

Im disappointed at the kind of stagnation he has shown in his development. He has been granted a lot of time on the pitch for a youngster at a club of our stature, but he really hasnt developed much the last year or so. He seems to have hit a plateau considerably earlier than I hoped.

As of right now he has plenty of players ahead of him in every position, and the position he gets game time in he doesnt even have the skillset to play properly.
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It would be absurd to sell Welbeck. He's a young player who's having a difficult second season for us so far - and not helped by the fact that he's been played on the wing for many of his appearances this season and that we haven't really played to his strengths either. The way we started last season with quick passing, plenty of movement and interplay is just right for him because he's got the ability for that. Playing at a snail's pace just doesn't suit him, and playing at a snail's pace from the wing is much worse. I'd say he could probably give better performances from wide if we'd up the tempo. But I think that might happen in the second half of the season providing certain key players are fit in the midfield.

As for which top half club would have him, that's another absurd question. Arsenal would bite our hands off for him, and any team apart from City would love to have him at least in the squad. As I said, he's had a difficult 2nd season for us so far - which is what plenty of top players have experienced in their career. It's hardly serious stagnation. Added to that, he's got two of the best strikers in world football ahead of him, so he's not had as much playing time as last season in any case. These strikers are very experienced and have had tough seasons themselves but because they're now doing the business, it's all forgotten. Let's have some perspective please.
 
Chabon said:
Right, I'm reposting this list I made last summer. These are goalscoring stats for the season in which the following players turned 21:

Llorente: 4 goals in 25 appearances for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga
Torres: 13 goals in 40 appearances for Atletico Madrid in La Liga
Villa: 20 goals in 48 for Gijon in Segunda Liga
Klose: 0 goals in 0 appearances for Kaiserslauten in the Bundesliga
Gomez: 8 goals in 38 appearances for Stuttgart in the Bundesliga
V. Persie: 10 goals in 41 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League
Huntelaar: 19 goals in 39 appearances for Heerenveen in the Eredivisie
Welbeck: 12 goals in 39 appearances for Manchester United in the Premier League
Di Natale: 12 goals in 25 appearances for Viareggio in Serie C
Lewandowski: 21 goals in 34 appearances for Lech Poznan in the Ekstraklasa,
Ibrahimovic: 21 in 42 for Ajax in the Eredivisie
Benzema: 23 in 47 for Lyon in Ligue 1

Does Danny Welbeck look out of place in that list?

I see no reason to believe Danny won't become much more prolific later in his career, although signing Van Persie was always going to mean the next two seasons will be difficult for him.
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Excellent post. Nuff Said.
 
Not really. I don't get why you edited the 9 into a 12. Because on league goals alone that's what he got last season.
 
Lynk said:
Not really. I don't get why you edited the 9 into a 12. Because on league goals alone that's what he got last season.
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Maybe all of the stats listed are for goals overall, and not just league goals?

This is true for the ones I posted.
 
Lynk said:
This isn't even debatable, Balotelli broke through younger than Welbeck and has scored more goals than him in every season Welbeck has played. Honestly, put your fanaticism aside and stop this nonsense.
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Are goals the only way to judge strikers? Don't you think Welbeck contributes more in all-round play? Even so, if we take it as a given that Balotelli is a better penalty taker and just look at their goalscoring records from open play they're pretty similar - in the Premier League and Champions League Balotelli scored once every 3.6 games while Welbeck scores once every 3.8.

Code: 
[B]Balotelli[/B]

[U][B]12/13[/B][/U]

1 PL goal (12 appearances)
1 CL goal (1 penalty) (5 appearances)
1 LC goal (1 appearance)

[U][B]11/12[/B][/U]

13 PL goals (3 penalties) (23 appearances)
2 CL goals (1 penalty) (3 appearances)
1 EL goal (1 penalty) (3 appearances)
1 LC goal (2 appearances)

[B]43 PL and CL appearances, 12 goals from open play, 6 penalties.[/B]

[B]Welbeck[/B]

[U][B]12/13[/B][/U]

1 PL goal (12 appearances)
0 CL goals (5 appearances)

[U][B]11/12[/B][/U]

9 PL goals (30 appearances)
2 CL goals (2 appearances)
1 FA Cup goal (2 appearances)

[B]49 League and CL appearances, 13 goals from open play.[/B]

Does every player follow the same development path from their teens to their 30s? Saviola looked a more talented player than David Villa, Van Der Vaart looked a more promising talent than Kaka...but lets look at a more relevant example.

Rewind back 10 years and Cassano was Italy's future golden boy up front, moved to Roma for a huge fee - like Balotelli to City - and he scored crucial goals in Euro 2004 - again, much like Balotelli this summer. He had no trouble scoring in Europe and overall scored 38 in 112 between the ages of 19-22 at Roma. Van Persie at the same age scored 22 in 78 at Feyenoord and then after moving to Arsenal for about one tenth of the fee Cassano went to Roma for, he scored 34 in 109 in his first three seasons at Arsenal.

And before anyone says it, no, I don't think Welbeck is as talented as Van Persie. That's not the point. The point is anyone who saw Cassano from a young age could tell he was going to be a superstar at some point - and that was backed up by his performances and goals at all levels that compared favourably to most other forwards in Europe at this time - as long as he got his head sorted. Even if he never got his head sorted, even at 50%, he'd still be a top class player. Yet by the time the 2010 World Cup came round he was 28 years old, playing at a midtable club and couldn't even make it into the World Cup squad while an 'average' talent like Diego Milito had just come off the back of a season where he scored title and cup-winning goals in the Serie A, Coppa Italia Final and Champions League Final - and he got there through hard work and perseverance.

You learn a lot about a player/person when chances don’t get handed to you on a plate - I reckon Welbeck will knuckle down and benefit from this experience while Balotelli will decide he’s better off at a more glamorous club like Milan and struggle to live up to expectations (see Cassano to Madrid).
 
Lynk said:
Not really. I don't get why you edited the 9 into a 12. Because on league goals alone that's what he got last season.
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With either figure it shows his goal scoring at 21 is in line with some of the best strikers in the world. Time to give his one up Lynk.
 
If we're going on overall goals, some of these are wrong either unintentionally, or to deliberately prove a point.
 
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