SAF should stop fcking around with him and just stick him to a striker's position. The problem however is we have an abundance of strikers and he is probably 4th choice and the only way he gets some playing time is to put him on the wings. That is surely not helping him in his development and consistency, especially when his finishing is the weakness and needs more experience and playing in the appropriate positions.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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He is going through a stage like the 19 year old Ronaldo did: obviously talented and a good all round forward, but too lightweight and not able to put it all together yet. So he turns in some ineffective performances. Still prefer him to Young as a forward though, as he has more potential.
Wait...you're blaming Sir Alex for this? Alex Ferguson's objective is winning trophies with Manchester United, Welbeck has been poor so far regardless of whether he's played on the wing or played up front. Fergie can't shove Welbeck up front and hope he scores goals, the team comes first. Look at Hernandez, the guy has 9 goals and he's still warming the bench.
Finishing is his weakness? Well that's a pretty fecking alarming weakness. It would be like playing someone who is poor at crosses out wide, or someone with poor strength or passing in the middle. Frankly, Manchester United is a step above nearly every club, strikers who would be great for other teams mightn't fit the mold here, and I'm in the minority on the caf who think Welbeck's good but is shy of ever being a regular for us. Perhaps a loan mightn't be completely outrageous.
Don't compare him to Ronaldo please. Don't be that deluded.
Reality is given his form he shouldn't be in the first XI. The issue is though the form of our set of wingers is pretty dire that Fergie doesn't necessarily have much option but to give him a chance.
I don't think he gave any worse of a performance than Young that's for sure and I was glad Fergie made the right call in taking Young off.
I don't think he gave any worse of a performance than Young that's for sure and I was glad Fergie made the right call in taking Young off.
I didn't say he is or will be as good as Ronaldo, so no delusion. It's just a stage in development that many gifted players go through. Another thing is that Welbeck could develop his physique more, which is also a lesson that Ronaldo took on board.
Reality is, he's probably played more minutes than Rooney or Hernandez and is currently behind Evans, Evra and Rafael in the goal scoring table.
"Gifted" is a term I object to. I think he has potential, but not to the degree some posters seem to think he has
That's because Rooney was injured for a month and he is a more versatile player than Hernandez.
One can compare a young player to an established star in regards to form, development, style, skill set etc, without insinuating that the young player is "the next established star".
Right, so taking form, style and skill set out of it how are they remotely comparable?
Ronaldo was younger when he had development problems of a sort. When he was Welbeck's age now, he was arguably the best player in the world ahead of or behind Kaka
Ronaldo was younger when he had development problems of a sort. When he was Welbeck's age now, he was arguably the best player in the world ahead of or behind Kaka
Well, according to surf, Welbeck and the 19 year old Ronaldo are/were similar in the sense that they are/were both:
Which is fair enough. I see no delusion in that sentence. It's a simple, fairly uncontentious statement. Nothing more. The only delusion is your desire to read this as some kind of meaningful comparison between the two players.
FWIW I don't see any delusion here either. Just Welbeck is going through a rough patch and on occasion castigated by some fans like Ronaldo or Fletcher (if you want a completely different player thrown into the mix) was.
I'm not. I just don't see the point of bringing up Ronaldo's development problems, when he was younger than Welbeck is now, wasn't homegrown and played in a different position. Besides, I disagree entirely with Welbeck being "lightweight" he is a lanky bastard, and is strong even for the league. His problems lay elsewhere.
You are. You're still doing it now. You are the only one stretching the comparison to something it's not.
It's a reference everyone can understand and so it's used in order to illustrate a point. It's a fairly common technique. I'm sure there would be a player with whom a better comparison could be drawn, but this is a United forum, and most people don't have very good memories of how Bob McSmith from Rival Town FC developed during the early part of his career.
That's why I said 19. Welbeck is a later developer, because he is not as good. Also, note that comparison and analogy do not imply equality.
I'd say Welbeck is gifted. When you consider all the millions of footballers born in England, he's at the apex of a very large pyramid. He's also the first forward to break though into the first team from the academy since Scholes.
I thought he was our best attacker in the first half, he set up two good chances for RVP and Rooney respectively and he tracked back well. Playing on the wing is clearly not his strong suit but he showed more intent to get at the fullbacks than Young and Valencia have done of late.
playing on the wing isn't helping him with his form but no way he is going to start ahead of van persie, rooney or hernandez based on his current form.
no doubt he looks much more comfortable playing for england these days where he is the no.9.
i guess it is the wing where he can clock up minutes under his belt for us this season.
no doubt he looks much more comfortable playing for england these days where he is the no.9.
i guess it is the wing where he can clock up minutes under his belt for us this season.
Some people will have you believe that if only he could finish better, he'd be Henry. A tad overrated for me, but i'll have him on the wing ahead of Ashley Young easily.
At least he's moving about, and always wanting the ball. That's more than you could say about every other on the pitch bar Rafael in the first half. Tries to make things happen, doesn't go into hiding if his touch is a bit off. You've got something to learn there, experienced England international Ashley Young.
Ferguson quoted as saying he will be a top player in a couple of years...
Welbs is inconsistent as hell, even in the same game, but at least he made some goalscoring opportunities. Young contributed the square root of feck all.
I think he's doing well personally playing in an unnatural role. He's starting to carry the ball more and more, is working hard and always shows enthusiasm. What he really needs to add now is diagonal runs across from wide, it's not as easy in a 4 as you're more restricted but he can do it.
Below par performance against QPR, where he looked lost for large parts of the game. Think we need to stop playing him out wide. Every now and then he plays well there, but for the most part he isn't very effective. I much prefer him centrally, though he has slipped down the peaking order for that spot this season
Playing him out wide is necessary for his development because if it's not that then he'll sub a lot more time on the bench.It's important for his overall development as a player even it can be frustrating for him and us fans.
Recently?
You see the best of Welbeck when he has players close to him. It's the same with Cleverley. It's the same with Kagawa. Playing him out wide as we did Saturday, he was mostly starved of that and moved central to try and combine more with his teammates. It didn't really work to great effect as it simply dragged another QPR man towards the center making their shape even narrower.
You could see his frustration when he kept holding out his arms while dribbling with the ball. It's why he was so good last season. Playing up top he could move around and more often than not someone was close to him to play quick one-two touch football. Anytime he tried that against QPR, it mostly looked forced and ill-timed. Not sure what the solution is at this point as I don't see him getting much game time in his favored position. Hopefully in the future, our lineups and tactics are more accommodating. It's quite clear he's no winger in the sense that Young and Valencia are so there's no reason to expect him to perform in a similar fashion.
I'd agree with that. He is clearly better working in close with players around him with quick little movements and holding up the ball.
I guess its going to be a case of getting game time when possible up front, and then accept he isn't going to be as effective at times out wide and hope it adds his overall development
Welbeck has talent, but he's a long long long way off the final product.
I do get the feeling that he won't make the cut at United.
I do get the feeling that he won't make the cut at United.
Good post. Really enjoyed watching Welbeck play as you described last season, and I'm guessing many others on here did, too. Part of the reason why I guess some of us thought RVP wasn't needed (boy were we wrong!).
Against Newcastle we played a 4-4-2 (diamond) and Welbeck was playing up top with RVP. But he was given license to roam around all over the place and link up with whoever he wanted to, which made him and our whole team even more dangerous.
Really hoping we can see a similar set up to the game vs Newcastle again soon.
I'm starting to get the same feeling unfortunately. I said at the start of the season that in my opinion this was a massive season for him. The reason being is I genuinely don't feel he has improved (almost at all) since he was at Sunderland, despite having much better players around him.
I accept that he isn't starting in his preferred position, but the only thing I find myself praising him for is his work rate. His touch and finishing looks like it has deteriorated if anything vs 2 years ago, I certainly can't say his passing or movement look like they have improved either, unfortunately.
At 22 (today incidentally - happy birthday) he is young and still has a lot of time, but we could say that about every United player that has failed to make the cut.
I don't see a problem with him. He's having a rough second season (not the first player) and he's played out of position, but at least he's getting minutes. He's inconsistent but still shows some flashes of quality and his attitude is very positive. He's showing all the right signs for a young player.
I'm not sure what some are expecting. If you're not setting the world alight in your early twenties, you can't be a top player by your mid twenties? If he continues to work hard and improve (which he clearly does at the moment), he'll be a top striker by the time Van Persie starts to slow down a bit in a few years. Perfect timing.
I'm not sure what some are expecting. If you're not setting the world alight in your early twenties, you can't be a top player by your mid twenties? If he continues to work hard and improve (which he clearly does at the moment), he'll be a top striker by the time Van Persie starts to slow down a bit in a few years. Perfect timing.
Also would it be fair to say he is our best dribbler/ball carrier out of the 4 strikers? I mean Hernandez might be pacier, but certainly not with the ball. Especially with our wingers woefully out of form, Danny's 1v1 ability is certainly useful.
No-one is suggesting he can't be a top player by his mid twenties. The only question is whether he'll make the cut at a club like United, a club that usually has 2 of the top 10 or 15 strikers in the world on their books. I personally don't think he will fall into that category.
I reckon RVP beats him on that. The fact that you don't see it that much reflects one of Welbeck's problems at the moment - he's too indisciplined with his positioning. RVP rarely gets the ball in a position which isn't immediately dangerous, whereas Welbeck drops deep into midfield and that tends to be where he gets the ball. So yes, he then often beats a midfielder with a bit of a dribble, but he needs to recognise that beating that midfielder isn't his job. He needs to be finding a gap to receive the ball from the person who does beat the midfielder.
Unfortunately he often has to drop so deep to win the ball and beat a man because a certain other area of our team completely lacks the ability to do so, but lets not go there again. I think he's doing fine and would benefit massively from regular games with Cleverley, Kagawa, Rooney and Nani. At the moment we're playing shite straight line football and its not really helping anybody.
I don't want to speculate on whether or not he'll fall into that category, as I think it's irrelevant. He's a local lad, home-grown, has the right attitude and clicks well with many others in the squad. You think we'll offload him if he isn't in the top 10 or 15 strikers in the world in a few years? Not every player in our squad has to be world class, especially not if he's a great team player, which for me he is.
Agree, he has the technical ability but lacks the composure in front of goal.
He's indisciplined in his position and doesn't compare to RVP who rarely gets a ball which isn't immedietly- jesus christ.
Have a word with yourself. Any time spent on the left will be helpful to the lad. He can hone his craft in areas that aren't playing off the shoulder of the striker and or coming deep to link up play and win ball.
Yes we know they are his strengths and his bread and butter. Yes he can work on his finishing but sitting on the pine for 70% of the season isn't going to develop him in the same way that playing out of his comfort zone for half of that is.
feck me this place can be horribly impatient at times. If we didn't sign RvP then Danny would more than likely be playing as the main up front striker with Rooney or Kagawa in behind.
I agree with this, and I'm pretty disturbed by the abuse he's getting on here and, more to the point, at Old Trafford. He got far more stick than Young, despite the fact that Young did literally nothing whereas Danny, although not a winger, set up our only meaningful chances in the first half with great wing play, and then assisted the equaliser, which might well have been his goal if Jonny hadn't rightly made sure. There were ironic cheers when he was subbed off, for feck's sake.
Welbeck has greatly improved his physical aspect of the game; he has gone from looking slightly sluggish to becoming very, very fast. He is very strong, great technique, but his decision making and end-product aren't yet good enough.
It's a bit annoying that many think we should write him off because he hasn't made the full breakthrough yet. He's 21, playing for England and a rotation player for United. Recently he is playing on the wing, which clearly isn't his favoured position. However, he will develop there as we already see. Now he is much more able to carry the ball at pace; against QPR he dribbled past and outpaced his fullback, he can cross and cut into the box. Sadly, his end-product leaves many of his runs seem a bit pointless, but he will get there.
He can be a bit frustrating at times, but he is still very young; to say that he lacks talent is ridiculous. He can, and hopefully will, become a great player for us. Ferguson said that when he turns 24 he will be a class striker. I believe that!
It's a bit annoying that many think we should write him off because he hasn't made the full breakthrough yet. He's 21, playing for England and a rotation player for United. Recently he is playing on the wing, which clearly isn't his favoured position. However, he will develop there as we already see. Now he is much more able to carry the ball at pace; against QPR he dribbled past and outpaced his fullback, he can cross and cut into the box. Sadly, his end-product leaves many of his runs seem a bit pointless, but he will get there.
He can be a bit frustrating at times, but he is still very young; to say that he lacks talent is ridiculous. He can, and hopefully will, become a great player for us. Ferguson said that when he turns 24 he will be a class striker. I believe that!
Oh lord, here we go again. Never said I don't think he's fantastic, I'm not being impatient with him. Just commenting on the biggest area I think he needs to improve. Obviously there's nothing wrong with him getting on the ball, showing what he can do. All I'm saying is that if he wants to be an effective striker, he needs to hone his sense of when to do that, and when to resist the temptation in order to take up the positions from which he can score goals.
But just to give you something to angrily respond to: he's shit, he'll never make it here, why isn't he as good as Messi yet, I wish we'd sold him before he was even born.
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