Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

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Was hernandez re-upped because of interest from the continent and perhaps the club felt he could get his head turned easier?

Perhaps with welbz, the club felt that there was/would be no interest from the continent and being a local lad that he wouldn't run off down south?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
As do most good young players these days, no doubt.
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Why not just tie him down to a new contract before he ends up in the last year of his current one? You know, like any club with half a brain or half an intention of keeping him would?

We effetively have to get him to sign up or sell him within the next three weeks...brilliant.

I know he's a die hard United fan and all, but if it was me, as soon as the club put me in that position and/or started pawning me off with offers of less than what I know I'm worth, I'd be fecking pissed and probably very seriously looking at offers from elsewhere.
 
Strange situation for his contract to be so close to expiring, but I agree with those that can't see him leaving - Fergie seems too invested in him. His development seems to be on exactly the right course, he started games ahead of more established strikers last season, got a lot of praise from the manager (which we know can mean diddly-squat, but a lot of the talk seemed geared towards how good a player he will become, including those quotes about whatever crazy piece of equipment we have at the club that says his body's still to fill out a bit), sounds like he's been set his goal target for next season too.

Thinking about potential playing time for him next season, I don't fully get the attempts to sign Van Persie but as Fergie always bangs on about having 4 great strikers, I thought I'd look up the appearance totals for the 98/99 season:
Yorke: 48(3)
Cole: 43(7)
Solskjaer: 17(20)
Sheringham: 11(16)

And last season:
Rooney: 41(2)
Welbeck: 27(12)
Hernández: 22(14)
Berbatov: 11(10)

Shorter cup runs and very occasionally starting with one up front accounts for 18 less games started by our 4 main strikers last season.

I could well be wrong but I think Hernández is settling into more of a substitute's role. I figured Kagawa would replace Berbatov as one of those 4 forwards, similar to Sheringham. But if Van Persie came in you'd have to think that's definitely the end of Berba & more with a 4-3-3 in mind, something that would also make use of his versatility. Point being I have no bloody clue what will happen but I think Welbeck should be guaranteed at least 20 starts again next season whatever happens, filling in out wide if we do go to 4-3-3 more. Looking at it you realise just how many different attacking options we now have with many versatile players, we'd be absolutely stacked with the addition of Van Persie. Which is maybe what's needed to get back to the top domestically and in Europe.
 
noodlehair said:
Why not just tie him down to a new contract before he ends up in the last year of his current one? You know, like any club with half a brain or half an intention of keeping him would?

We effetively have to get him to sign up or sell him within the next three weeks...brilliant.

I know he's a die hard United fan and all, but if it was me, as soon as the club put me in that position and/or started pawning me off with offers of less than what I know I'm worth, I'd be fecking pissed and probably very seriously looking at offers from elsewhere.
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Where do you think he'd go?

I doubt any of the major clubs would take him right now, and even if they did I doubt he'd be an automatic starter.

Do you think he'd leave for a mid table club?
 
Welbeck should get the same basic salary as Chicharito.
He's a player of a similar standing in the game as Hernandez was when he renewed his contract.
 
GCHQ said:
Season tickets? The significance of season ticket income to the club has already decreased rapidly over the last five years and in five years time it will represent an absolute pittance of the club's total revenue.

Commercial appeal is very important whether you like it or not and it will be reflected in the Hernandez/Welbeck salary packages.

EDIT - There's no real battle to attract the next generation of ''local fans''. They're completely meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
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Stop talking crap. Without the local support there would be no United.

Tell me why we're being bombarded by emails, text messages from the club trying to sell us unsold ST every few days.
 
Drainy said:
Welbeck should get the same basic salary as Chicharito.
He's a player of a similar standing in the game as Hernandez was when he renewed his contract.
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He's a lot better player than Hernandez.
 
GCHQ said:
So what? I've made it perfectly clear why those local people going to Old Trafford will provide an ever decreasing amount of importance to the club's fortunes over the years to come. They're ''reasonably insignificant'' at this point in time. Fast forward five to ten years and yes, I'm afraid ''essentially meaningless'' would be an accurate description.
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Wow, thats one of the most shameful posts I think I've ever seen on here.

There's more to life than money you know. If we were ever to hit hard times, (see Leeds for an example), then local support would be more than significant in terms of importance.

Its a question of being able to differentiate between the price and value of something really isn't it.

There's a good saying that goes 'don't feck anyone over on your way up, because you'll meet them on your way back down'.

I'm not sure who you are, I largely ignore you, you're one of those people that suck the enjoyment out of football, I'd imagine the most of the pleasure you derive from it is looking at balance sheets, is it? You're a bean counter, and thats about it, an unfortunate modern phenomenon.

Any club that considers local support as insignificant isn't really a club is it? Its just a business.

My dad always said moneymen destroy sport, if they bring attitudes like this, then I see what he means.

All that aside I think and hope you're talking utter shit.
 
Sultan said:
He's a lot better player than Hernandez.
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I agree he's a much better footballer, but at the time when Hernandez renewed he'd had a season where he was first choice for club and country and was scoring regularly. Welbeck last season wasn't as effective at scoring goals but his all-round play was better than Hernandez- they should be on the same basic salary.
 
Eyepopper said:
Wow, thats one of the most shameful posts I think I've ever seen on here.

There's more to life than money you know. If we were ever to hit hard times, (see Leeds for an example), then local support would be more than significant in terms of importance.

Its a question of being able to differentiate between the price and value of something really isn't it.

There's a good saying that goes 'don't feck anyone over on your way up, because you'll meet them on your way back down'.

I'm not sure who you are, I largely ignore you, you're one of those people that suck the enjoyment out of football, I'd imagine the most of the pleasure you derive from it is looking at balance sheets, is it? You're a bean counter, and thats about it, an unfortunate modern phenomenon.

Any club that considers local support as insignificant isn't really a club is it? Its just a business.

My dad always said moneymen destroy sport, if they bring attitudes like this, then I see what he means.

All that aside I think and hope you're talking utter shit.
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Amen brother
 
Eyepopper said:
Wow, thats one of the most shameful posts I think I've ever seen on here.

There's more to life than money you know. If we were ever to hit hard times, (see Leeds for an example), then local support would be more than significant in terms of importance.

Its a question of being able to differentiate between the price and value of something really isn't it.

There's a good saying that goes 'don't feck anyone over on your way up, because you'll meet them on your way back down'.

I'm not sure who you are, I largely ignore you, you're one of those people that suck the enjoyment out of football, I'd imagine the most of the pleasure you derive from it is looking at balance sheets, is it? You're a bean counter, and thats about it, an unfortunate modern phenomenon.

Any club that considers local support as insignificant isn't really a club is it? Its just a business.

My dad always said moneymen destroy sport, if they bring attitudes like this, then I see what he means.

All that aside I think and hope you're talking utter shit.
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Quite

It was a new low for GCHQ.
 
Eyepopper said:
Where do you think he'd go?

I doubt any of the major clubs would take him right now, and even if they did I doubt he'd be an automatic starter.

Do you think he'd leave for a mid table club?
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There'd be better than mid table clubs interested in him...and, if I was Danny Welbeck, and United had put me in this position, yes, I'd seriously consider going elsewhere. Mostly because I'd be pissed off at the club and would now feel they need to prove how much they want to keep me.

If United are playing silly games against the current player/agent market, I'm afraid they made a rod for their own backs by bending over to Rooney. It needed to start there or not at all.
 
Meh, if a 21 year old product of our youth system thinks the club need to prove how much we want him after a year and a bit in the first team he can do one as far as I'm concerned.

Utd have guided Welbecks career to where he is, a full England international playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world, and continue to back him, pretty much dropping a 35million quid striker for him, he'd be immensely fecking stupid to go anywhere else..
 
Sultan said:
Stop talking crap. Without the local support there would be no United.

Tell me why we're being bombarded by emails, text messages from the club trying to sell us unsold ST every few days.
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That's basic marketing and I know we have this discussion every Summer but the limited number of remaining season tickets are in the most undesirable areas of the stadium. To repeat, if you sell out too easily then you aren't charging enough in the first place.

You're absolutely right to say that the local support has been extremely important over the years, even as recently as the first few years of the Glazers ownership when the successful price rises and compulsory ACS were important growth factors at a time when the club was slightly too highly geared.

That is the past. For the present day Manchester United the local core support is simply not important to the club's fortunes and it's only going to get less significant as the years go by. I know I come across as the big bad wolf for pointing it out but it's just the reality of the situation. I don't take any pleasure from it.
 
What drives you to make those type of posts then GCHQ? I imagine it's a desire to to provide a contrasting point of view, to prove people wrong, to be unique in a sense.

You must take some sort of satisfaction by making these points, else you wouldn't bother.

And if you don't, it'd be welcomed if you learnt not to make it seem that way.

I appreciate your take on things, but the tone becomes grating at times.
 
Eyepopper said:
Wow, thats one of the most shameful posts I think I've ever seen on here.

There's more to life than money you know. If we were ever to hit hard times, (see Leeds for an example), then local support would be more than significant in terms of importance.

Its a question of being able to differentiate between the price and value of something really isn't it.

There's a good saying that goes 'don't feck anyone over on your way up, because you'll meet them on your way back down'.

I'm not sure who you are, I largely ignore you, you're one of those people that suck the enjoyment out of football, I'd imagine the most of the pleasure you derive from it is looking at balance sheets, is it? You're a bean counter, and thats about it, an unfortunate modern phenomenon.

Any club that considers local support as insignificant isn't really a club is it? Its just a business.

My dad always said moneymen destroy sport, if they bring attitudes like this, then I see what he means.

All that aside I think and hope you're talking utter shit.
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Shameful? Come on...

The Leeds example is just silly frankly. There's as much chance of the club going down that route as there is of me getting run over by a bus later today (here's hoping I hear you cry).

Manchester United is a business. Football is a business. It's been like that since pretty much forever but the increased commercialism over recent years seems to have been a bit too much for some fans to handle.

Fans of NFL franchises in the US understand that its a business and they still take great enjoyment from watching the sport. We always seem to be about 20 years behind that lot across the Atlantic so in time I'd imagine we'll all come to accept and understand the reality of the situation too.
 
GCHQ said:
ime when the club was slightly too highly geared.

That is the past. For the present day Manchester United the local core support is simply not important to the club's fortunes and it's only going to get less significant as the years go by. I know I come across as the big bad wolf for pointing it out but it's just the reality of the situation. I don't take any pleasure from it.
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No, you just come across as incredibly naive, hopefully you don't actually have a voice within the club on a marketing level.

If you want to focus purely on financials, seeing as thats what seems to float your boat, can I ask a very simple question, if OT was half empty every week do you think the only impact it would have would be on matchday revenue?

Sponsors pay a premium to be associated with a successful event, i.e a packed OT.

Considering local support as insignificant and banking on filling OT with OOTners, or corporate seats is a very risky strategy, largely dependent on continued onfield success, drop out of contention for the league, or out of the CL and support from those without the local, religious devotion tot he club will wain, if you don't have a stadium full of locals, you dont have a full stadium, the value of commercial sponsorship will fall. Any marketeer with a grain of sense knows you look to exploit (excuse the term) your most dedicated customers as much as possible, and that that may not always be in relation to the revenue they generate directly. All pretty basic marketing really.
 
GCHQ said:
Fans of NFL franchises in the US understand that its a business and they still take great enjoyment from watching the sport. We always seem to be about 20 years behind that lot across the Atlantic so in time I'd imagine we'll all come to accept and understand the reality of the situation too.
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Christ, you think the comparison to Leeds doesn't apply and proceed to compare football to the NFL? :lol:

A different sport, in a different culture, with different history and histoical links to local communities and societies.

See, thats what happens when you see life purely in terms of which side of the balance sheet things fall on.... you miss pretty much all aspects which make it what it is.

How may 'clubs' take part in the NFL, as a matter of interest?
 
GCHQ said:
Shameful? Come on...

The Leeds example is just silly frankly. There's as much chance of the club going down that route as there is of me getting run over by a bus later today (here's hoping I hear you cry).

Manchester United is a business. Football is a business. It's been like that since pretty much forever but the increased commercialism over recent years seems to have been a bit too much for some fans to handle.

Fans of NFL franchises in the US understand that its a business and they still take great enjoyment from watching the sport. We always seem to be about 20 years behind that lot across the Atlantic so in time I'd imagine we'll all come to accept and understand the reality of the situation too.
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Yes, football is a business, yes the global fanbase is very important.

That does not equal the local fanbase being meaningless. The money they bring in alone should keep you from saying that, as you seem hyper aware of our finances.

Are you saying that if everyone in greater Manchester stopped spending a cent on United then the rest of the country, and the world, would step in to buy those seats and replace that income?

Or perhaps you think the locals will continue to support the club no matter what, and thus they don't have to be considered? If that's the case, I'd suggest that means the local support is showing how powerful it is, even relegation didn't stop the United supporters from showing up last time it happened, it will take a lot more than a bad owner to drive them all away.

Speaking personally, it is the passion that football inspires in it's fans that first attracted me to the sport, I wouldn't undervalue what the hard core supporters contribute to the business of football.
 
I'm off to bed, I eagerly await GHCQ's justification of how 2 different products (football and NFL) with totally different markets, audiences, history, cultural links, and traditions, are comparable simply because they both involve generating revenue from people watching men chase a ball.

I also look forward to reading the marketing theory which supports abandoning a major aspect of your product, thats been a core element since inception and which is firmly established,as some sort of a good idea.
 
In GHCQs mind the 'franchise' would up sticks and move to whatever offshore, tax free business hub he lives in because he certainly is not Mancunian.
 
gooDevil said:
Yes, football is a business, yes the global fanbase is very important.

That does not equal the local fanbase being meaningless. The money they bring in alone should keep you from saying that, as you seem hyper aware of our finances.

Are you saying that if everyone in greater Manchester stopped spending a cent on United then the rest of the country, and the world, would step in to buy those seats and replace that income?

Or perhaps you think the locals will continue to support the club no matter what, and thus they don't have to be considered? If that's the case, I'd suggest that means the local support is showing how powerful it is, even relegation didn't stop the United supporters from showing up last time it happened, it will take a lot more than a bad owner to drive them all away.

Speaking personally, it is the passion that football inspires in it's fans that first attracted me to the sport, I wouldn't undervalue what the hard core supporters contribute to the business of football.
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But that's exactly my point! The money the local core support brings in is essentially meaningless or at least it will be over the next 5-10 years.
 
GCHQ said:
Shameful? Come on...

The Leeds example is just silly frankly. There's as much chance of the club going down that route as there is of me getting run over by a bus later today (here's hoping I hear you cry).

Manchester United is a business. Football is a business. It's been like that since pretty much forever but the increased commercialism over recent years seems to have been a bit too much for some fans to handle.

Fans of NFL franchises in the US understand that its a business and they still take great enjoyment from watching the sport. We always seem to be about 20 years behind that lot across the Atlantic so in time I'd imagine we'll all come to accept and understand the reality of the situation too.
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Keep dreaming that, you talk like your not a yank?
 
It's what happens when accounts think they understand marketing.
 
GCHQ said:
But that's exactly my point! The money the local core support brings in is essentially meaningless or at least it will be over the next 5-10 years.
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Do you think things like local support and a well attended stadium have any impact on wider commercial appeal and value?
 
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