Morrison was let leave due to him being a massive knobhead. We didnt lose feck all in his case. Welbeck wont leave either.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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Morrison was let leave due to him being a massive knobhead. We didnt lose feck all in his case. Welbeck wont leave either.
Probably - but he improved ten fold in a short space of time under Wenger.
I'm not saying Danny Welbeck can't, nobody knows what might happen - but how many players do that? You could say any player coming through might turn into the next Lionel Messi - its unlikely ever to happen.
Some people are going way over the top yet again about a young player, and I don't think its helpful. Comparing him to arguably one of the best strikers in Modern football is ridiculous - I don't see any similarites other than he's tall and quick - plays much more with his back to goal than Henry and isn't as cool - again he may develop those charateristics but so might any player.
Good season last year, certainly bags of potential - I don't see why we have to expect him to become a world beater to consider him a success.
The worst part is some like to build players up then slate them when they're not the second coming. I personally don't see the point. Just let the lad play in my view.
This is a perfect post for this thread. You're responding to a probable lie by the media about our club, by repeating an incontrovertibly confirmed lie about the club. Since that story came out about us no longer negotiating until the last year of contracts we have renegotiated contracts with several years remaining on them, at my last count, over a dozen times.
It was bullshit invented to sell papers, much like the lies the Sun is now putting out about Danny. All of the same newspapers reporting this now have previously reported that Danny had signed a new five-year contract back in April.
NEVER EVER BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ IN THE PAPERS ABOUT OUR PLAYER'S CONTRACTS.
Ha ha. Is that right?
Given you have already counted, who have we sorted out these contracts for? I am not suggesting you are wrong by the way, I swallowed that whole business about contracts in the last year as truth but I never bothered to verify it or pay close attention to what was going on. I just figured it sounded like a reasonable money saving measure. I am sure the original source for that was quite reputable wasnt it? I didnt get that out of The Sun.
Given you have already counted, who have we sorted out these contracts for? I am not suggesting you are wrong by the way, I swallowed that whole business about contracts in the last year as truth but I never bothered to verify it or pay close attention to what was going on. I just figured it sounded like a reasonable money saving measure. I am sure the original source for that was quite reputable wasnt it? I didnt get that out of The Sun.
I'll get the full list out later, a bit busy at the moment, but off the top of my head Smalling and Hernandez extended just after the story came out, which was hilarious. There have been loads more since. We've also clearly been negotiating with Nani for awhile, and he's got at least two more years left.
edit: The story's actually older than I thought, it came out at the start of the 10/11 season, and claimed that apart from Rooney (who signed a new contract a few weeks later) we would no longer tend to negotiate with players who have two years left on their contract, waiting instead for the final year. The best part was the names they specifically cited as 'concern's:
Berbatov, of course, never got a contract extension, but that's because (for whatever reason) we never wanted to give him one.
edit: The story's actually older than I thought, it came out at the start of the 10/11 season, and claimed that apart from Rooney (who signed a new contract a few weeks later) we would no longer tend to negotiate with players who have two years left on their contract, waiting instead for the final year. The best part was the names they specifically cited as 'concern's:
Berbatov, of course, never got a contract extension, but that's because (for whatever reason) we never wanted to give him one.
It doesnt surprise me that was bollocks, on the basis it always seemed to be a strategy that was more likely to backfire and cost us players than save us massive amounts of cash.
If we sign Baines that will put to bed the one about us not buying players over 26 as well.
If we sign Baines that will put to bed the one about us not buying players over 26 as well.
Well, that one has a lot more grounding, because generally speaking we've been signing players at increasingly young ages for years now. Baines is, however, the same age Berba was, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. I would certainly be surprised though, and I'm amused by the way that thread in the transfer forum has been gathering momentum even though we haven't even been linked to Baines in the papers for a couple of weeks.
Evans was considered here to be our best defender last season, and performed miles better than Danny did. Danny wasn't near being one of the best strikers in the PL, whereas Evans was one of the best defenders in the PL last season. Yes, defenders get paid less, but he was much better as a defender than Welbeck as an attacker.
Also, you got to look at how long and how established they are in the team. I'd say Evans is a much more experienced and established player than Welbeck at present, despite last season being the breakthrough for both of them.
Welbeck has 9 caps for England, and i don't see how that's relevant. Andy fecking Carroll was his only competition for most of them; they're hardly going to play a suspended striker in all them friendlies as well, eh? Carrick should earn less because Welbeck has probably been able to do more for England than he has?
People need to get it back in their pants when it comes to Welbeck. They forget the 100's of chances missed, and overplay his 'build up play' which lead to about 2-3 assists, wasn't it? Let him develop without putting up so much pressure, especially on his finishing which leaves a lot to be desired at the moment.
But the story came out after the Berbs signing didnt it? Wasnt that supposed to be "the last signing of its kind" - "end of an era" type stuff?
We sorted a new contract for Hernandez and Smalling. Nani's also being renegotiated and has two years left.
So how much is Evans earning and when was his contract last negotiated? Given that, as you say, he was a regular and consistent performer for the team last season, then yes he should be in that £60-80k bracket. If he isn't, it's because he is mid-contract.
It's inevitable that at times players will leap-fgron each other as their contracts come up for renewal. To suggets that Welbeck, a player who made 40 appearances up-front for Manchester United last season, is not worth £60k a week because he has to wait for everybody else in the team to get their contracts upped first is just daft.
Does that include SAF, the man who gave this unfinsihed potential 40 matches in a United shirt lasts season? You may disagree with him on whether he's ready for that, or ever will be, and that is your right. But given that our manager clearly thinks he is good enough already, there is no question that he deserves over £40k per week.
(Note - I'm using "deserves" in the sense of "in todays climate" etc. none of the greedy, lucky buggers really "deserve" a tenth of what they are paid!)
Everyone starting to demand double or triple the wages, where would it end? When people like Young are on a 120k+ then no wonder Nani would want 150k or more. What about Valencia? Carrick?
Our wage bill is already at 150mil a year, not far away from Chelsea's and City's. We have to be careful here imo. Going over the 50% wage to turnover border and it'll be a slippery slope.
Our wage bill is already at 150mil a year, not far away from Chelsea's and City's. We have to be careful here imo. Going over the 50% wage to turnover border and it'll be a slippery slope.
Ah Yes the 100's of chances he missed, I forgot about those. You're right people should remember all those chance and not think about the way the team looked much better and more fluid with him in it than Berbatov or Hernandez.
Since you're using Evans as a comparison I'll use Hernandez, someone who actually plays his position. Hernandez had a great first season here and then despite the fact he had plenty of time left on his contract United signed him up to a new deal worth somewhere in the region of 75,000 - 90,000 if reports are to be believed. If Welbeck was preferred to Hernandez in the first team last season why does Welbeck not deserve at least 60,000 p/week considering he is in the last year of his contract?
How do you know what Young is on a week? From reading tabloids who just 'guess'? Awesome.
i sincerely doubt Hernandez is on that much.
Plus, that's the problem I'm highlighting. Just because X player is overpaid relative to last seasons performance, tends to have a flow-on effect to the whole squad. So you need to make a statement. If the club's offering 40k plus up to 20k extra when he plays, it's obvious that SAF doesn't rate him as finished, or worth that the 60k every week pay packet. Also, there was an agreement between Hernandez and the club that his ~15k salary would increase sharply if his performances showed that to be the case. So in essence, whatever he's earning now is also partially a little extra because of what he has forgone previously.
We're not trying to screw our players, but the Glazers need to pay a tight game and run the tight ship. We can't waste more money than the estimated 300 million quid over and above what we'd have wasted had we still been a PLC (Taxes and other things reduce the 500 mill of wasted money on debt payments to 300 mill wasted). This means not giving every player exactly what they want, and if it has to start with us offering Welbeck and Nani a little less than what they demand, then they are well entitled to do so. Especially if players like Evans and co. are starting points which suggest that said player is less established; should earn less.
To be fair, all we can go on are these reported estimates. It's either that or we stop discussing salaries altogether.
Well when I searched "Javier Hernandez signs new deal" I got three articles, one from the sun which said 75k, one from the telegraph which said 90k and one from the Guardian which mentioned no figure but said it put him in the top tier of earners at United.
Again you're using Evans as the measuring point, why? Hernandez may have been told he would get a pay rise if he performed but is that not the case with most young footballers. Also Hernandez is in direct competition for place with Welbeck where as Evans plays in a completely different area on the pitch.
I think it also has to be said Evans playing time could be significantly reduced next season. Evans was playing in the team in the absence of Vidic and Smalling injuries helped him get a run of games and establish himself as the main cover. Personally I rate Smalling more than Evans and wouldn't be surprised to see him get more chances than Evans last season. Obviously we don't know what additional signing United will make or what formation we will play but as it stands Welbeck is probably only second choice to Rooney up front and also has the ability to play out wide.
You're also taking what the article says about the figures being offered as the truth. I reckon the article is complete bull so your argument that the wages being offered prove that SAF doesn't see Welbeck as a "finished" product of "worth the 60k a week pay packet" doesn't really have any legs to stand on in my opinion. My argument is that Danny is deserving of 60k p/week, however I have no idea if that's the sort of money he's after or what the club are willing to pay him.
A newbie "Longsighted" has just informed me that Sun has taken down the article from it's site. Looks like his contract is sorted. Good news.
Given his background and personality I never suspected any other outcome
Yesterday on MUTV Lou has reused his 'agents are greedy' speech regarding this very issue. We had problems with Rooney, Pogba left and now we seemed heading into the danger zone with Danny. Call me a pessimist but lightening is striking the same place in too many occasions for my tastes. Maybe its time to focus less on the Glazers debts and more in retaining/bringing in new talent?
Stories over last couple of days about contract problems are not true...hence story being taken down by sun.
Calls were made yesterday to sort that out.
Calls were made yesterday to sort that out.
It still makes me gasp when I hear that Welbeck is on £15,000 a week at the moment. No wonder the lad wants a new deal - that is actually, farcical.
Isn't it an unwritten law of negotiating in almost any walk of life that your initial offer will be turned down for being ott. If and I stress if, Welbeck has asked for a certain amount and that United have turned him down then they will have done so in the knowledge that there is room to manoeuvre surely? Some agents are ridiculously greedy yes, and some are just paid to get the best deal for their client and try to do so. Just because he asked and we said no, not yet, doesn't mean that the relationship between player and club is in turmoil.
Basically, stop being so melodramatic. Welbeck is a local lad, supports united, gets first team football here, is an england regular now, and has an incredibly bright future. He's entitled to ask for whatever he wants. Doesn't mean we should give it to him, he will not leave, his contract will be improved ten fold, he won't push his luck too far and will still get a fantastic deal for someone who is 22 years old.
On Morrison I would love to know the full story and not just gossip and paper talk, incredibly talented yes, but obviously not the most level headed lad. I genuinely (naively perhaps) think Fergie thought it was a good move for the lad to get away from manchester and start again. If we wanted to keep Fryers, we would have. If we really wanted to keep Morrison, we would have. Pogba is the only one who has bucked the trend of us wanting to keep him and him still leaving. So unless you're lumping him with Ronaldo in that regard their really is no lightning. We have very little problems in keeping or obtaining talented players so calm down.
Stop over-reacting. Welbeck is in the last year of the first deal he signed as a professional. 15k for a 17yr old is good amount.
Exactly, his next deal is gonna be a couple of grand more so for a young lad that's certainly not half bad now is it? I don't wanna see our club just lashing cash at kids let them earn their exorbitant wages rather being just handed them.
It's about wanting to prove yourself in the game, if you do that the money is gonna follow. It's part and parcel of the game. So knuckle down and be the best Ayer you possibly can be.
It's about wanting to prove yourself in the game, if you do that the money is gonna follow. It's part and parcel of the game. So knuckle down and be the best Ayer you possibly can be.
i would have no issues if welbz went in and asked for parity with hernandez.
bollocks that is shit logic.
utd, ginger cnuts, gill, and fergie have zero moral high ground over players when it comes to wages when 50 million quid p/a is being pissed on interest for no other benefit than jewish americans owning us.
we support the lads on the pitch and the gaffer on the touch line. that's what we pay money directly or indirectly to support.
Players are right to demand as much as their talents can get in the market. If the gingers need to 'control' margins due to interest costs, that's their problem, not the players'.
If the glazers deem margins are getting out of hand, they can sell up.
Those damned jews and americans. What a super way to degrade your argument.
Get a grip.
Get a grip.
What the hell has the Glazers being Jewish have to do with anything???
I can almost feel godwin entering the room.
calm the feck down, i was just describing them and did not say 'damned'. Afterall city's owners are described by their ethnicity when lads say 'those arabs'.
Is this a double standard I am sensing?
Every club has contract renewal issues once in a while. However at United, these issues are becoming common and with a wide variety of players. We've had problems with Rooney, when he came out saying that the club lacked ambition. We've lost Pogba and Freyers and we've still got pending issues with both Nani and Welbeck. Are they all greedy?
Recently official sources said that the debt is ‘reducing the availability of our cash flow to fund the hiring and retention of players'. The writing is on the wall. I guess we refuse to see it.
No. They are Arabs as they are born and live in Arabia, much as the Glazers are American because they were born and live in America.
If we started talking about City being owned by Muslim Arabs, I'm not sure how long your double standard argument would last...
Nationality is a perfectly acceptable way to describe people without any pejorative connotations, religion is not.
What does the writing on the wall say?
It makes you gasp?
- So ...what are you picking up a week? There's no sense of reality in any of this.I'd be quite interested to hear this answer as well.
Emirati is their nationality, arab is an ethnicity.
likewise american is a nationality, jew is either or both an ethnicity and religion.
It makes you gasp?
he and almost all the lads on here don't have the same unique skillset that welbz does in a industry that is of as high a demand that welbz performs in. So it doesn't make any sense to compare 'us' to welbz.
Though there might be a couple of traders or surgeons on here that might clear 20k a week on here and rightly so if the market bears their wage.
...or a nationality if you look at an Israeli passport, but that's beside the point.
American can refer to anybody from the Americas, so isn't purely a nationality, while Emirati also refers to an ethnic group. To try and get pedantic about it is pointless.
To claim to not appreciate the difference between talking about City's owners being Arabs, and ours being Jews is obtuse to the point of idiocy or, worse, bigotry.
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