Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

[gooDevil]

The worrying thing isn't the pointless bickering over his potential. It's the amount of people who until this season, couldn't even see the potential was there.

Eh, I think you can chalk that up to 9 out of 10 people either pulling stuff out of their ass to have something to say when they haven't really watched him or being a terrible judge of talent. With the Cafs newbie filtration system they have that rate down to about 7 in 10.

SAF always said Danny was going to keep growing and he turned out to be right, which turned out to be crucial, his size and strength are big assets for someone as fast as he is. He used to have some awkwardness in his running that may have put some off when he was in the United academy, but it looked to me like someone whose brain was moving faster than his awkward still-growing legs.

But once he stopped growing and finished filling out sometime between his Preston loan and arriving at Sunderland he was able to use his size and strength to hold players off, it added another dimension to his game. After what he did at Sunderland there's no excuse for not seeing a lot of talent, he scored some fantastic goals for the Black Cats.

Now whether he'll get into the conversation for best striker in the game is another question, but surely he looked like someone worth a place in the squad after what he did at Sunderland.

 

[Massive Spanner]

hey goo, could he provide cover for Carrick and Scholes in midfield?

 

[gooDevil]

I think he could play the #10 role like Rooney does in a 4231, where he could provide some cover for the midfield, if that's what you mean.

Can't say the idea of actually playing him in midfield has crossed my mind. But Berbatov played in defense for us last season, so we can't rule it out. :sarcasm:

 

[finneh]

I'll have to borrow your crystal ball if I'm going to name another player who he'll end up exactly as good as.

In terms of the attributes he has as a footballer and his progress so far I see no reason to decide there's some sort of glass ceiling in his future development. He's potentially got everything you could need in a striker. The comparison with Messi is pointless really.

I don't think you need a crystal ball to be able to tell that he won't be as good as Henry or Messi irrespective of how he progresses, just eyes. He does have the chance if all goes well to be a very, very good player though.

The worrying thing isn't the pointless bickering over his potential. It's the amount of people who until this season, couldn't even see the potential was there.

To be fair United's academy hasn't produced a quality striker since Mark Hughes nearly 30 years ago, you can understand the pessimism before his performances in a red shirt this season showed that he really does have a future in the United team.

 

[Carl]

I think he could play the #10 role like Rooney does in a 4231, where he could provide some cover for the midfield, if that's what you mean.

Can't say the idea of actually playing him in midfield has crossed my mind. But Berbatov played in defense for us last season, so we can't rule it out. :sarcasm:

I don't see that myself. He plays his best link up stuff high up the pitch in tight areas.

 

[Top]

He is insanely overrated on here.

Insanely, really? Reading this thread it seem most people are just excited about a young Manchester lad making it at the big scene. There might be one or two going overboard, as is the case with every player from Giggs to Gibson, but people generally rate him as a very promising player who deserved to be among the first 11 Manchester United players for most of last season, which is exactly what he is.

 

[ricky-romeo]

If I was to say he would end up at a level, it'd probably be around level 86 - that is a Dwight Yorke/Saha level, rather than say a 97 - which is a Messi or Ronaldo type player. Of course there's always the fact he could reach 90.5 which would be awesome, but I suppose if it all goes wrong he might hit the level 78.694 level which of course is Voronin.

i reckon he can reach level 88.

 

[Lastwolf]

I prefer to measure potential in joules so I reckon his potential is 400 billion joules, or 0.65 of the Messi Index.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think he could play the #10 role like Rooney does in a 4231, where he could provide some cover for the midfield, if that's what you mean.

Can't say the idea of actually playing him in midfield has crossed my mind. But Berbatov played in defense for us last season, so we can't rule it out. :sarcasm:

If Giroud can then why can't Welbeck?

 

[acrebo]

I thought the Messi index had a perfect factor of 0.1? So Welbeck would currently be around 0.04 with a potential Messi rating of 0.073.

 

[R.N7]

He's also a bit overrated on here. Weren't people suggesting he'll be better than Rooney a few weeks ago?

6 months ago the majority of the posters in this thread thought Sturridge was a better player than Welbz

 

[Massive Spanner]

6 months ago the majority of the posters in this thread thought Sturridge was a better player than Welbz

See, that's rather misleading. Quite a few posters including myself thought that Sturridge was the better player at the time, but that Welbeck was still potentially better than him in the future, seeing as Sturridge is 3 years older.

 

[Tomuś]

See, that's rather misleading. Quite a few posters including myself thought that Sturridge was the better player at the time, but that Welbeck was still potentially better than him in the future, seeing as Sturridge is 3 years older.

Just over one year older actually

 

[antohan]

To be fair United's academy hasn't produced a quality striker since Mark Hughes nearly 30 years ago, you can understand the pessimism before his performances in a red shirt this season showed that he really does have a future in the United team.

Rossi?

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Rossi?

Rossi was only partly produced by us.

 

[sajeev]

I didn't ignore anything. This is a forum, saying "that's not true" without giving a reason for it isn't really a logical response.

yet again, there is no point in arguing with someone who can't see that it is not true.

Let me repeat what I read:

The only way that Welbeck can be more consistent than Rooney is if he reaches the level of Ronaldo or Messi.

It is that statement which I said is not true.

You could find someone whose contribution to all round play is better than Rooney on an average over a season in a forward position without the person having to be a Messi or Ronaldo.

If you count the contribution purely in terms of goals and assists then I could see where you are coming from, but there is a lot more than just goals to judging how well someone did. Yes as a forward if you miss 10 shots on goals, you have had a bad game. But it is possible to contribute substantially without just talking about shots on goal.

Due to the nature of Rooney's performances, especially coming back from a lay-off or whenever he is distracted by off-field events, it is possible that Welbeck might be a more consistent contributor (but not necessarily in terms of goals)

 

[Massive Spanner]

Just over one year older actually

Fair enough, thought he was older than that. Still believe what I said though.

yet again, there is no point in arguing with someone who can't see that it is not true.

Let me repeat what I read:

The only way that Welbeck can be more consistent than Rooney is if he reaches the level of Ronaldo or Messi.

It is that statement which I said is not true.

You could find someone whose contribution to all round play is better than Rooney on an average over a season in a forward position without the person having to be a Messi or Ronaldo.

If you count the contribution purely in terms of goals and assists then I could see where you are coming from, but there is a lot more than just goals to judging how well someone did. Yes as a forward if you miss 10 shots on goals, you have had a bad game. But it is possible to contribute substantially without just talking about shots on goal.

Due to the nature of Rooney's performances, especially coming back from a lay-off or whenever he is distracted by off-field events, it is possible that Welbeck might be a more consistent contributor (but not necessarily in terms of goals)

But what forwards in the world contribute more to a team than Rooney does? Unless you're operating under the myth that he didn't do much other than score goals last year, which is far from true. Who other than Messi and Ronaldo are more important and better forwards for their team than Rooney is? Maybe RVP last season. Obviously the Messi-Ronaldo thing was a bit tongue in cheek but I used it to emphasize how important he is for us, and saying that Danny could surpass that based on his career so far is a bit silly.

 

[Will Absolute]

He's a very clever footballer. But too dainty and laid back. For a 20 year old striker there's a lack of power and aggression. And he needs to score more goals.

 

[SATA]

He's a very clever footballer. But too dainty and laid back. For a 20 year old striker there's a real lack of power and aggression. And he needs to score more goals.

You said it yourself, he's only 20 so he can only get better if he sticks to it

Not everyone is a Michael Owen

 

[Adebesi]

6 months ago the majority of the posters in this thread thought Sturridge was a better player than Welbz

See, that's rather misleading. Quite a few posters including myself thought that Sturridge was the better player at the time, but that Welbeck was still potentially better than him in the future, seeing as Sturridge is 3 years older.

Me too. I think 6 months ago Sturridge was doing better. Welbeck has come a long way in a short space of time. The trajectory of his improvement is very encouraging - tho also Sturridge didn't quite maintain his early form.

 

[surf]

He moved up the ranks quickly to start for England at the Euros at the age of 21. He's basically England's second best striker now. The fact that he partners Rooney at club level should help him to stay ahead of any rivals for his international place.

 

[Ekeke]

We have no idea how Welbeck would have been treated or done at Chelsea this season. And what Sturridge might have done starting in a front 2 with Rooney at United. Both are talented young players but would Welbeck be where he is now if he was used only on Chelsea's right wing? Doubt it.

 

[Drainy]

Sturridge could have gone to almost any club in the League, he chose to go to Chelsea- a team who had a culture of setting up in a 4-3-3 and could at any moment buy any number of world class players to compete with him to play through the middle. If anyone is to blame for is failure to get adequate game time in a position he prefers, its him. He should have joined a more suitable club for his game and profile.

 

[Xander45]

We have no idea how Welbeck would have been treated or done at Chelsea this season. And what Sturridge might have done starting in a front 2 with Rooney at United. Both are talented young players but would Welbeck be where he is now if he was used only on Chelsea's right wing? Doubt it.

I would say there is a huge difference between Welbeck and Sturridge in their personalities.

Sturridge has always come across as a very selfish player, whereas Welbeck is anything but, infact he needs to be more greedy and demand the ball more often.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Aye, because Welbeck had a much easier ride forcing his way into United's best XI. Sure he only had to displace last season's league's top scorer AND the player who forced him out of the team. The feck is Ekeke on about? (not the first time this thought has crossed my mind)

 

[mungy]

With fair dues to Sturridge, Welbeck is on the next level.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

The whole over-rated and under-rated labels that are put on young players on the CAF is one of the most frequent and to be honest cliched parts of the CAF. It's such a meaningless debate and label and so over-used when it comes to young footballers. Welbeck's just the latest in a long line of youngsters who always get branded in such a way from Jones, Cleverley just from last season and Evans before then. I'm sure if Smalling goes through a poor spell next season he will be next and all of the established first teamers get it as well. It's the same for every young player who has a first team run for the club. I remember Cnut saying not long back that United fans are the most critical fans going and the CAF proves him right pretty much week in week out.

The funny thing with Welbeck is, he's not even getting the loftiest of predictions on here and was even flying under the radar for most of last pre-season after his loan spell with Sunderland and after his early season injury. Obviously he's always had a fair few who expected him to make the first team but I would say for the most part Welbeck's been in the background on here ever since Macheda made his impact until the middle part of this season. The focus at the start of the season was on other players for the most part and the praise and comments are not excessive. Just people pointing out that he's developed into a first team player for club and country at the age of 21 and pointing to all the obvious positive attributes he has, which make him standout as a young English attacking player and which make him someone with a potential big future in the game. All the talk is of potential and I can't see anyone going further than this.

If you can't get excited about a young attacking player with a range of positive attributes, who is technically very gifted, mancunian, works hard and has a style of player which is abit unique relative to others of his age, nationality, position and club, and first thought is to say he is 'over-rated', then I honestly don't know what you get out of supporting United. I'd get it abit more if there was highly lofty predictions on here, such as the media fuelled new Duncan Edwards stuff with Jones, but there is very little of the sort.

As for his performances in Euro 2012. He's had a good tournament playing for a side who don't suit his natural game whatsoever and has been starved of services in both the French and Ukraine matches but still showed his positive attirbutes when given the ball.

 

[mightberight]

Sturridge hogs the ball whereas Welbeck on occasion isn't aggressive or selfish enough. What I would say is that it's far better for a younger player to have the instinct to involve his team mates over the Superman act that Sturridge regularly tries to achieve.

Danny will learn with time, of course he will, as he has everything in his locker to succeed. One thing that worries me though is the signing of Kagawa and a possible effect on Danny's playing time; are we really going to plonk Kagawa in centre midfield? I can't see how we can fit two strikers in if not. He'll get some playing time but Rooney is the main man, and if we want Welbeck to become a main man there has to be an obvious place for him to slot in for the future, if he's not a first choice starter now.

 

[Revan]

With fair dues to Sturridge, Welbeck is on the next level.

Welbeck always looked the more talented one.

 

[decorativeed]

Why are 50% of the comments in the Danny Welbeck thread about Daniel bloody Sturridge?

 

[Ekeke]

Aye, because Welbeck had a much easier ride forcing his way into United's best XI. Sure he only had to displace last season's league's top scorer AND the player who forced him out of the team. The feck is Ekeke on about? (not the first time this thought has crossed my mind)

You're more likely to force your way into the team if when you are given a chance, you play your natural position

 

[adexkola]

Apart from his selfishness, Sturridge is a top talent. The two can learn from each other.

 

[peterstorey]

Apart from his selfishness, Sturridge is a top talent. The two can learn from each other.

Ludicrously one-footed and not very intelligent. Welbeck will soon leave him far behind.

 

[gooDevil]

Eh, I think you can chalk that up to 9 out of 10 people either pulling stuff out of their ass to have something to say when they haven't really watched him or being a terrible judge of talent. With the Cafs newbie filtration system they have that rate down to about 7 in 10.

Did this outrageous comment get me the tagline of 'worst scout ever'?

Or did I pull a Gourcuff and claim some second rate player would become top class?

I think I have a right to face my accuser!

 

[gooDevil]

I think he could play the #10 role like Rooney does in a 4231, where he could provide some cover for the midfield, if that's what you mean.

Can't say the idea of actually playing him in midfield has crossed my mind. But Berbatov played in defense for us last season, so we can't rule it out. :sarcasm:

I don't see that myself. He plays his best link up stuff high up the pitch in tight areas.

It seems to me that his link up play and passing are as good if not better than his finishing. He a good goal scorer but not one of those ruthless finishers like Michael Owen in his day that puts away more than he misses.

I'm not saying we should put him there, but I think he has the overall game to play in that position. But everyone likes to play in the hole, Young and Park play well there, and half the young players in the world want to have that free role ahead of midfield.

 

[Revan]

Ludicrously one-footed and not very intelligent. Welbeck will soon leave him far behind.

I think that this is not such a big problem. Ask Maradona, Messi, Robben etc. The problem of Sturridge is that for unknown reasons Di Mateo decided to never play him and also Sturridge's selfishness which can be compared even to Robben. Other than that he's a top talent.

Still I think that Welbeck is and will be better than him.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Did this outrageous comment get me the tagline of 'worst scout ever'?

Or did I pull a Gourcuff and claim some second rate player would become top class?

I think I have a right to face my accuser!

The best part is you dont even realise what you did

 

[gooDevil]

Well, if I knew something I said was wildly incorrect I would surely have refrained. I remember being mocked a bit for suggesting we'd buy 3 relatively expensive players this summer but that's about it.

Maybe it was my suggestion England would finish 3rd in their group?

By all means have a good laugh, whatever it is, laugher is the best part of life.

 

[Successful]

Could we please have a market value estimation? 10-13m euro?

 

[I'm always right]

Could we please have a market value estimation? 10-13m euro?

Ha ha.

Henderson cost what? 19m pounds

Jones, 16-17m pounds

At his age and being English, you're talking 20m pounds minimum.