Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

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Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Nonsense, that is not how it is.

At 21 Henry was the French Young Footballer of year, in an era when the French national team were on the cusp of becoming one of the greatest international teams ever. He also scored a record amount of goals for Monaco in the Champions League as they reached the semi finals of the competition. At 21 Henry was one of the very best young players in the world.

That said, the comparison at the same age is irrelevant, in my opinion Welbeck lacks the skill set to ever become as good as Henry.

This hype is becoming ridiculous.
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Agreed. He's a talented young Footballer with the potential to be a very good player for us, but he still has it all to prove. Does he have the ability to be one of, if not the best striker the Premier League has seen (as Henry)... I highly doubt it, few do.
 
I don't think people were trying to say he's as good as Henry, just trying to name someone with a similar style and skill set for the sake of comparison.

For my part I can't think of a striker that's extremely similar to him myself.
 
A lot of people in here getting annoyed at United fans getting excited over a young, home-grown prospect. What's wrong with that? This is what football is about, isn't it? Quit being so grumpy, and being so condemning of fan's optimism.

All United fans should be over the moon seeing such a talented, local lad starting for his country, and enjoying this stage of his career, seeing Danny develop his skills with each game.

I genuinely think some people comment on here just for the sake of it.
 
finneh said:
Agreed. He's a talented young Footballer with the potential to be a very good player for us, but he still has it all to prove. Does he have the ability to be one of, if not the best striker the Premier League has seen (as Henry)... I highly doubt it, few do.
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In terms of potential, the sky's the limit for Danny. The big unknown is whether he can fulfil that potential.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
He needs to improve more than his finishing, did he even have an attempt at goal last night? To me he looks to passive and he doesn't seem to find space very well. I don't know what his remit from Roy was but surely his performance last night should have brought some CAFtards back within a glimpse of reality.
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My word, if this is your actual opinion, you need to have a word with yourself. This oozes pessimism. Do you actually enjoy watching football?
 
unitedbhoy said:
My word, if this is your actual opinion, you need to have a word with yourself. This oozes pessimism. Do you actually enjoy watching football?
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I enjoy watching football very much but I try to be objective. I like Welbeck but he has a long way to go and I believe that his ceiling is lower than the true elite.

Henry was a player whose pace was one of his greatest attributes, Welbeck simply doesn't have that pace. In my opinion he is most similar to Kanu but still has a fairly unique style.

Hype is annoying because you get the petulant reactions when reality hits.
 
England sit back and absorb pressure most of the game, so there are going to be fewer chances than at United. Then when England do have the ball they don't play possession football, which is one of Welbeck's strengths.

With Rooney being a bit off it stunted the offense at times, not to mention Milner being offensively impotent, I was expect him to see few chances.

Welbeck is at least as much potential as he is realize talent, I think most people would agree with that, thus the excitement may seem to outstrip the results.

But Welbeck isn't a ruthless goal scorer, I don't think he'll ever score with the efficiency of Chicharito, though I suspect he'll improve that with time.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I enjoy watching football very much but I try to be objective. I like Welbeck but he has a long way to go and I believe that his ceiling is lower than the true elite.

Henry was a player whose pace was one of his greatest attributes, Welbeck simply doesn't have that pace. In my opinion he is most similar to Kanu but still has a fairly unique style.

Hype is annoying because you get the petulant reactions when reality hits.
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What makes you say he has a low ceiling in terms of potential?

IMO his physique means he's likely to be a slow/late developer so to be where he is already means his potential is off the scale. Like I said, though, potential isn't always fulfilled.
 
I think the original point was to find a player similar to Welbeck. Henry, Saha, Kanu, and Berbatov were the names thrown around.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What makes you say he has a low ceiling in terms of potential?

IMO his physique means he's likely to be a slow/late developer so to be where he is already means his potential is off the scale. Like I said, though, potential isn't always fulfilled.
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I never said that he had a low ceiling I said that he has a lower ceiling than the true elite i.e. Henry et all. He is already playing at a very high level and is already a good player. However, I do not feel that he has the requiste skill set to ever be as good as Henry and I think that some posters are getting carried away.

Surely you saw how anonymous he was last night. I said before in this thread that he either needs to improve his end product stats or get more involved in general play to make the next step up. Does he have the mobility and confidence to do that to great effect?
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I never said that he had a low ceiling I said that he has a lower ceiling than the true elite i.e. Henry et all. He is already playing at a very high level and is already a good player. However, I do not feel that he has the requiste skill set to ever be as good as Henry and I think that some posters are getting carried away.

Surely you saw how anonymous he was last night. I said before in this thread that he either needs to improve his end product stats or get more involved in general play to make the next step up. Does he have the mobility and confidence to do that to great effect?
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TBH I wanted to point out if he's confident enough but then the cheeky bastard scored a ridiculous backheel.

Let's not forget he's playing in a shite English team. He has had an impressive season. He will build on to it. Athletes reach their physical peak at around 26(or they used to before Messi and Ronaldo wrecked everything.) Let's see how far he's from the truly elite players.
 
I'm constantly amazed people can quantify, rank and decide what the limits are, to the invisible, mystical and immeasurable force that this 'potential'.

He's 21, he can change considerably for the better, he's already starting at United most games, baring the freaks of nature, that's way ahead of some of the 'elites' of the past.


Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I never said that he had a low ceiling I said that he has a lower ceiling than the true elite i.e. Henry et all. He is already playing at a very high level and is already a good player. However, I do not feel that he has the requiste skill set to ever be as good as Henry and I think that some posters are getting carried away.

Surely you saw how anonymous he was last night. I said before in this thread that he either needs to improve his end product stats or get more involved in general play to make the next step up. Does he have the mobility and confidence to do that to great effect?
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Not that far away in terms of statistics, Henry's first real season was 1996, he won young player of the year.

Aps Goals
1995–96 22 3
1996–97 48 10

Welbeck

2010–11 28 6
2011–12 40 12

Alright Welbeck is about a year and change older, but the french league is pretty shit.
 
Lastwolf said:
I'm constantly amazed people can quantify, rank and decide what the limits are, to the invisible, mystical and immeasurable force that this 'potential'. He's 21, he can change considerably for the better, he's already starting at United most games, baring the freaks of nature, that's way ahead of some of the 'elites' of the past.
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You've not been on the Caf long enough - some posters here really have magic powers and are capable of much more
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I never said that he had a low ceiling I said that he has a lower ceiling than the true elite i.e. Henry et all. He is already playing at a very high level and is already a good player. However, I do not feel that he has the requiste skill set to ever be as good as Henry and I think that some posters are getting carried away.

Surely you saw how anonymous he was last night. I said before in this thread that he either needs to improve his end product stats or get more involved in general play to make the next step up. Does he have the mobility and confidence to do that to great effect?
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How anyone can doubt his mobility, after his 2 seasons in the Premiership, is beyond me.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
In terms of potential, the sky's the limit for Danny. The big unknown is whether he can fulfil that potential.
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Well of course there is a ceiling to his potential... He isn't going to be the next Messi, because he doesn't have the potential to be that good.

If he fulfills his potential to the maximum I'd say he'd be at a level close to Andy Cole, which of course is still very, very good.
 
finneh said:
Well of course there is a ceiling to his potential... He isn't going to be the next Messi, because he doesn't have the potential to be that good.

If he fulfills his potential to the maximum I'd say he'd be at a level close to Andy Cole, which of course is still very, very good.
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He's nothing at all like Messi, he'll never reach David Seaman's potential either.
 
finneh said:
Well of course there is a ceiling to his potential... He isn't going to be the next Messi, because he doesn't have the potential to be that good.

If he fulfills his potential to the maximum I'd say he'd be at a level close to Andy Cole, which of course is still very, very good.
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I'll have to borrow your crystal ball if I'm going to name another player who he'll end up exactly as good as.

In terms of the attributes he has as a footballer and his progress so far I see no reason to decide there's some sort of glass ceiling in his future development. He's potentially got everything you could need in a striker. The comparison with Messi is pointless really.
 
If I was to say he would end up at a level, it'd probably be around level 86 - that is a Dwight Yorke/Saha level, rather than say a 97 - which is a Messi or Ronaldo type player. Of course there's always the fact he could reach 90.5 which would be awesome, but I suppose if it all goes wrong he might hit the level 78.694 level which of course is Voronin.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm only talking about the opinions expressed in this thread. They've gone from one extreme to another. Like I said, it's exactly what happened with Cleverley. Although Cleverley generated three extremes of opinion in a single season. From not good enough to the new Messiah (with a LOT of caftards claiming he should start ahead of Carrick) to a fat self-publicising crock who won't make any useful contribution next season.

From what little I've heard from non-caftard football fans Welbeck is still under-rated by the public at large.
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Certainly true from my experience, even amongst fellow United fans.
 
Lastwolf said:
I'm constantly amazed people can quantify, rank and decide what the limits are, to the invisible, mystical and immeasurable force that this 'potential'.

He's 21, he can change considerably for the better, he's already starting at United most games, baring the freaks of nature, that's way ahead of some of the 'elites' of the past.






Not that far away in terms of statistics, Henry's first real season was 1996, he won young player of the year.

Aps Goals
1995–96 22 3
1996–97 48 10

Welbeck

2010–11 28 6
2011–12 40 12

Alright Welbeck is about a year and change older, but the french league is pretty shit.
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There you go Jimmy, pessimist off. Better return and strike rate.

I do see a gem of player in Welbeck.

I agree with the mercurial touch Kanu showed, but he does have a lot more pace, maybe not Henry pace but he is no slouch.

I also think his vision and one touch play is a very high level for youngster.

Seems a top quality character too, I vote him to go to the very top.
 
The worrying thing isn't the pointless bickering over his potential. It's the amount of people who until this season, couldn't even see the potential was there.
 
Cina said:
He's also a bit overrated on here. Weren't people suggesting he'll be better than Rooney a few weeks ago?
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He could well be. Rooney is a different kind of talent, but it is possible that Welbeck could become a more consistent contributor to the team, and hence be regarded as the better talent.

But that is hypothetical, since different people have different opinion's regarding Welbeck's ceiling and Rooney's current ability.

Anyways, I think he will be a WPOTY nominee some time during his career. I have felt that atleast since Jan 2011.
 
Saying he could go on to be better than Rooney is more optimism/hope than overrating him, surely?

If people were saying he already is better, then that would be overrating him.
 
DFreshKing said:
There you go Jimmy, pessimist off. Better return and strike rate.

I do see a gem of player in Welbeck.

I agree with the mercurial touch Kanu showed, but he does have a lot more pace, maybe not Henry pace but he is no slouch.

I also think his vision and one touch play is a very high level for youngster.

Seems a top quality character too, I vote him to go to the very top.
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The post that I was responding to was one stating that Welbeck is further on at 21 than Henry, which I said was incorrect and it is.

Then I talked about 'potential' and I don't see the potential in Welbecks skill set for him ever to become as good as Henry.

I feel that he needs to improve his general involvement in the game.

Last year throughout all competitions he made an average of 23.6 passes per game, scored 13 goals in 30 starts and 12 substitute appearances and he got 4 assists. Now if you have such a passive role in the game, at the top level, then I feel that you need better end product stats than that. I feel that he needs to get more involved in the game one way or another. However, I feel at times that he lacks the mobility to do so, the finishing ability or the spacial intelligence to make himself available for passes when linking with the midfield. He only averages 2.4 shots per game as opposed to Rooney who manages 4.1 shots per game and makes twice as many passes! If this isn't indicative of Welbeck's passivity then I don't know what is.

I find it odd to be called a pessimist if I don't think that Welbeck is going to be a footballing superstar of the ilk of a Henry or Rooney. I like Welbeck because he looks after the ball, he is a clever player in tight spaces around the box and he has the occasional flourish of brilliant technique a la verses Sweden.

I think that he will be a valuable first team player for us in years to come, if not a first name on the team sheet type.
 
sajeev said:
He could well be. Rooney is a different kind of talent, but it is possible that Welbeck could become a more consistent contributor to the team, and hence be regarded as the better talent.

But that is hypothetical, since different people have different opinion's regarding Welbeck's ceiling and Rooney's current ability.

Anyways, I think he will be a WPOTY nominee some time during his career. I have felt that atleast since Jan 2011.
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The only way he could be a more consistent contributor than the current Rooney is if he turned into Messi or Ronaldo.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
The post that I was responding to was one stating that Welbeck is further on at 21 than Henry, which I said was incorrect and it is.

Then I talked about 'potential' and I don't see the potential in Welbecks skill set for him ever to become as good as Henry.

I feel that he needs to improve his general involvement in the game.

Last year throughout all competitions he made an average of 23.6 passes per game, scored 13 goals in 30 starts and 12 substitute appearances and he got 4 assists. Now if you have such a passive role in the game, at the top level, then I feel that you need better end product stats than that. I feel that he needs to get more involved in the game one way or another. However, I feel at times that he lacks the mobility to do so, the finishing ability or the spacial intelligence to make himself available for passes when linking with the midfield. He only averages 2.4 shots per game as opposed to Rooney who manages 4.1 shots per game and makes twice as many passes! If this isn't indicative of Welbeck's passivity then I don't know what is.

I find it odd to be called a pessimist if I don't think that Welbeck is going to be a footballing superstar of the ilk of a Henry or Rooney. I like Welbeck because he looks after the ball, he is a clever player in tight spaces around the box and he has the occasional flourish of brilliant technique a la verses Sweden.

I think that he will be a valuable first team player for us in years to come, if not a first name on the team sheet type.
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You are overlooking the instructions he might have been given. And I hope you do realise he plays a different role from Rooney, who plays deeper.

So in yesterday's game you would want him to have dropped deeper most of the time. Good thinking, but do you know what his instructions were?
 
"Lets all do the Welbeck" is now officially the 4th most popular song out here now...After 10 German bombers (sigh) Roy Hodgson's Barmy Army and We'll do what we want (feck off Sol Campbell ver)
 
Cina said:
The only way he could be a more consistent contributor than the current Rooney is if he turned into Messi or Ronaldo.
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heh! that is blatantly not true. i won't dignify that with a further response
 
Cina said:
because you don't have one?
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so you ignore the part where it is said that it is blatantly not true. your response further strengthens my belief that the argument is useless since you fail to see/understand sentences and their context. thats seems to be the case at least in the right here and now.
 
Cina said:
He's also a bit overrated on here. Weren't people suggesting he'll be better than Rooney a few weeks ago?
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He is insanely overrated on here. I like him, but some people on here just go overboard, as they did with Rafael a few years back.
 
sajeev said:
so you ignore the part where it is said that it is blatantly not true. your response further strengthens my belief that the argument is useless since you fail to see/understand sentences and their context. thats seems to be the case at least in the right here and now.
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I didn't ignore anything. This is a forum, saying "that's not true" without giving a reason for it isn't really a logical response.
 
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