sums up welbeck that clip. made a beautiful turn then just knocked the ball forward for a little chase and run. he's quality but needs to be more precise with his movements. began to tire and we lost some of his urgency which as others suggested does help with the balance of the team. needs to start up top soon though. not a big fan of him on the left.Steady on
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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He brought a spark to our attack tonight with his pacey, driving runs, thought it was odd when Alan Smith suggested we replace him with Kagawa to give Evra more defensive cover.
He was brilliant last night, brought a lot of dynamism to our attack last night. So happy for him.
I was very bemused by that. It must be the first time anyone has ever suggested Welbeck is worse defensively than Kagawa.
odd comment from Smith, I don't think kagawa has ever provided more defensive cover than some like welbeckMade some great driving runs and troubled them.He's been one of our most important. Gave us something which we've lacked this season.
I know he should score more and his play in the box still needs to improve, Danny is a great player and makes us better when he starts.
That kind kind of myopic delusion belongs in the Kagawa thread!
He's started to score a fantastic amount when fit this year.
His pace changes our attack, something we really do miss. Valencia and Young also have the pace but dont know how to use; Welbeck does. Hope he features more towards the end of this season.
I'd rather Sterling than Welbeck in that lineup. It's bad enough having two players who ideally want to be the number 9 never mind three of them. Sterling brings more proper width. I'd play Sturridge down the middle and Rooney on the left too, Sturridge offers nothing in a withdrawn role where as Rooney's still good there.
-----Sterling-----Lallana----Rooney----
----------------Sturridge--------------
With Sterling playing wide and Rooney more narrow as almost a second striker when we're in possession would be pretty great.
Welbeck can do a much better job as a number 10 than lallana or as lam than Rooney
. Rooney behind Sturridge or Welbeck while the flanks belongs to sterling, lallana, Ox, or Welbeck if England take up a 4-2-3-1 system.Sterling/Townsend --- Rooney/lallana ------Welbeck/Ox
------------------ Sturridge/Welbeck ------------------
Having in mind that Ox has shown proficieny lately down the middle in a 4-3-3. So, it is unknown if he can adopt such performances on the left in a 4-2-3-1.
I don't even think Mad Winger would make that kind of claim tbf.
There's nothing wrong with playing a proper 4-3-3, and Welbeck, Sturridge and Rooney are England's best three attackers by a significant distance. Combine that with the obvious need to pack an ageing midfield and it's so obvious a solution that I'll be shocked if even Woy misses it.
Welbeck can do a much better job as a number 10 than lallana or as lam than Rooney
Sterling/Townsend --- Rooney/lallana ------Welbeck/Ox
------------------ Sturridge/Welbeck ------------------
Having in mind that Ox has shown proficieny lately down the middle in a 4-3-3. So, it is unknown if he can adopt such performances on the left in a 4-2-3-1.
Nah, no chance is Welbeck better behind the striker than Lallana. Welbeck's got good link up player but he's not the guy who is going to pick out the key final ball. Lallana has that skill and along with Rooney he's pretty much the only attacking option we have who has that in the repertoire.
What I like about Lallana is that he's a totally different kind of player to all our other wide options. So when we pick the team you suggest and teams just sit deep and let us play in front of them because they know we're crap at it and we offer nothing but pace Lallana is the guy who offers a bit of guile and vision to unlock a tight defence and means sides can't just Chelsea us and defend super deep.
Welbeck/Townsend/Ox/Sterling offer pretty similar things but I think Sterling's been the best this season. Plus with Welbeck and Towsend are quick they're not terrifying defences quick, where Ox and Sterling are. Sterling can play both flanks as well which is nice because we can just play him on whichever side has a slower/crapper full back with Lallana also able to play both sides.
There's no way Welbeck is significantly better than Sterling. Sterling has had a better season. Even Oxlade-Chamberlain has a case when he's actually fit. Townsend's a bit of a charlatan though, wouldn't take him to Brazil.
It also helped actually playing in his proper position! As useful as he is from wide, he won't score hardly any out there.
I'd play Welbeck at 9 without much hesitation, he's the best at holding on to it that we (meaning England) have by a distance. But then I'm a fanboy.
I don't think he's had enough praise this season. He was excellent in that run of games when RvP and Rooney were out and he played up front. It's a shame we can't play him there more. I understand why we don't but his performances do deserve it.
If Rooney has that same skillset you noted, why play both? In terms of balance, Welbeck adds pace, work ethic, technicality, strengthns, etc., that would work well with Rooney and Gerrad who would do the playmaking. Compared to lallana who is similiar to Kagawa and does not have these said attribute beside the technicality. Moreover, he is much more proficient playing in the the hole, which is occupied by England star man, Wayne Rooney. Having other pacey players like Sturidge(clinical finishing) and sterling(natural width) alongside Welbeck would showcase the perfect, balanced setup in a 4-2-3-1 system.
I have been a fan of lallana for awhile, but would you sacrifice Rooney in a lesser role just to occupy him? The only solution i see is in a 4-3-3 diamond of false 9.
-----------Gerrad-------
-----Wilshere---lallana----
-----------Rooney--------
--------Sturidge---welbeck---
But then there is no natural width...
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I can totally understand people who want to play Welbeck over Lallana and Sterling (even if I disagree) but no way should he play over Sturridge. Sturridge is almost a goal a game man this season he's way ahead of Welbeck as a number 9.
Lallana plays wide all the time for Southampton. He is like Kagawa but Kagawa is always bullied off the ball in the PL and can't play well wide, neither of which are true of Lallana.
Rooney isn't all that great at creating chances behind the striker, he's alright at it but I don't want him to have sole responsibility especially as he is typically god awful at major tournaments. We put all our eggs in the Rooney as the main creator basket in 2012, 2010 and 2006, look where it got us.
You need someone to actually play Sturridge, Sterling and Welbeck in. At Liverpool they have Suarez and sometimes Countinho. I don't think Rooney is good enough at it to shoulder the burden by himself. Sturridge is a striker who needs service, he's not like Suarez or Zlatan where you can just give him the ball and he'll do the rest. Welbeck and Sterling are not the kind of player who can give him the service he needs, Lallana is.
I'd play Sturridge as well, I think he'd be perfectly good cutting in from the right. Welbeck is perfect for the England 9 role, he's great with his back to goal bringing others in and hangs on to possession in tight spots, plus is a threat in the air.
I understand and that is your tactical preference to sacrifice Rooney in a lesser role to occupy Lallana into your team. Lallana is a great player and it might work out.
So you'd drop a proven goalscorer, a 21 in 25 this season man from his best position and play him in a position he's proven to suck at, in order to pick a guy who's main fault is his finishing and who's proven he's more than capable in a wide role? That's mental.
Can tell you're new here
He's far better up top than he is on the wing. England don't play like Liverpool, and I reckon England would probably get most benefit playing them that way round, but you may disagree.Thats just absurd. But hardly surprising considering you've just said that his main fault is his finishing when I'm pretty sure he has the best chance conversion stats in the entire league. His problem has never been finishing, its getting into right positions, which is hugely exacerbated when he plays as a winger.
Sterling is a great young player having a good season, Welbeck has been one of England's most important players for the last couple of years. The former has a long way to go to match the latter.
Although Sterling's had a good season, lets not forget Welbeck played a part in almost every WC qualifying game, in comparison to Sterling, and done a very good job on the left too. Be harsh to just drop him becuase Sterling's had a good season.
Anyway, I think Hodgson will be looking to play something like:
Hart
Walker - Cahill - Jagielka - Baines
Gerrard
Wilshere - Lallana
Sturridge - Rooney - Welbeck
Walker - Cahill - Jagielka - Baines
Gerrard
Wilshere - Lallana
Sturridge - Rooney - Welbeck
That team would get battered. If Gerard gets booked early (which is likely) any quality International side would literally waltz through that midfield
So is Rooney better than Suarez then on the basis he's been established longer? Because that's the logic you're using here.
Sometimes players come to the fore late on and you've got to pick them. It's like 98 when Hoddle wouldn't pick Beckham or Owen to begin with because he'd used Sherringham and Anderton in the qualifiers.
So you're saying Sterling is as good as Suarez?
What I'm doing here is satirising your absurd reaching, let's see if you can tell.
I'm saying that unless there's a huge and obvious gulf in class between players (eg. Sturridge isn't better than say Iniesta despite probably being in better form this season) that current form and how a players doing in the last 6 months is what matters when you're picking a team to win football matches.
We talking form for club or country?
Welbeck's club form isn't a whole lot worse than Sterling's, despite playing for a team having a horrific season.
In international football, though, his form is arguably better than even golden boy, Sturridge.
Welbeck's club form isn't a whole lot worse than Sterling's, despite playing for a team having a horrific season.
In international football, though, his form is arguably better than even golden boy, Sturridge.
I love watching this guy prove people wrong time and time again. It's ok to criticise his performances, but for some posters to completely disregard him, to not see any redeeming qualities and to want him sold in the summer (you only need to look as far back as page 218) is madness. Late Jan/early Feb he was awful, but so was the rest of the team. And all this knee-jerking after a brilliant goal-scoring run at the start of the year.
He's going to be (is?) an important player for us in these next few years.
He's going to be (is?) an important player for us in these next few years.
Well Sterling's barely played for England, I think in terms of club form he's been in comfortably better form especially out wide which is the role they're competing for.
Assuming that club form will automatically transfer to the international stage would be a little naive, no?
Plenty of examples where that doesn't happen. Especially when the hot streak at club level doesn't go back very far.
Yea, I agree the midfield is a bit light in terms of defensive responsibility and most "strong" team will probably waltz past it. I was just showing how to incorporate lallana in his most proficient role without omitting England's best performer. But in a midfield three, who would be better suited to accomadate this industrious midfield role? Hodgson used Cleverley in the wc qualifier, but his season form has not justified his inclusion. Delph has been fantastic this season but unproven for England. Other than that, I can not think of many natural midfielder for England who can play this role.
Also loads of examples of picking players on reputation who go on to not play well in the tournament, especially at England.
How Welbeck be getting picked "on reputation" though? He'd be getting picked, primarily, on the form he's shown for club and country.
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