Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
kouroux said:
I'm not sure about the dribbling and intelligence but the rest I definitely agree with.
Click to expand...

Welbeck is not intelligent as a player. I have never seen a striker at United ever, that can't see a pass coming or constantly fail to make runs into dangerous space.

No dummy runs, no attacking free space, no attacking the far or near post, no dropping of to free up in the box and no starting a run before the pass is hit. Yesterday, when he stood there waiting for the ball from Mata I actually stood up and screamed at him to start the run, he would have been clearn trough. My mates I was watching football with (all fans of Liverpool, Spurs, Aston Villa and City) was all laughing at Welbeck and how poor he played. They know their football and are all fair of the judgement of our players. They all envy us Januzaj so bad :devil:) Not one single one of them rates Welbeck at all and I have still to meet a fan from another team that does, that says alot.
 
Talented player but the thing that annoys me the most is that his shooting technique is awful.
 
I'm always baffled as to how someone who is a forward is constantly so fecking amazed when he gets the ball in the area. How many times do you hear "Welbeck wasn't expecting that" or "he couldn't react fast enough" or words similar?

He's a footballer, a striker no less. Danny - EXPECT THE BALL!

But he'll probably score sometime in late February to negate any criticism of any aspect of his performance for the next 3 and a half years. The earlier criticism that he just stands there is absolutely true. He ball-watches in the box. Even when he's the one with the fecking ball. He makes little to no attempt to find space. He stands there.

If he wasn't a "United lad" and he played for a rival team, he'd literally be the biggest object of ridicule here.
 
Last edited:
I love Danny but he just doesn't have the finishing instincts yet. I wonder if he ever will. Maybe he will become a midfielder like Dembele.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
I love Danny but he just doesn't have the finishing instincts yet. I wonder if he ever will. Maybe he will become a midfielder like Dembele.
Click to expand...

It's far more than his finishing instincts. Someone mentioned earlier on that he's received about 10 years of the best possible coaching at the club and yet still he's as liable to fall on his arse when the ball comes to him as he is to do anything else. Yet people refer to him as a top player, or a great player or someone who's almost there and just needs to work on his finishing. He's absolutely nowhere close to any of those accolades. Nowhere. I don't understand why people have to constantly kid themselves to this end. He's not a top player, he's never played like a top player, he'll never play like a top player and his game lacks far more than just finishing.

Really if he played regularly (not that he would, by the way) for Chelsea or City or Liverpool, we'd be on version 12 of the 'Let's all laugh at Welbeck' thread in the general football forum section. As it is still half the board put up with this absurd pretence that all his game lacks is finishing. If Danny Welbeck is the quality of player now considered 'our level' then feck me we're in trouble.
 
Giggsforever said:
Welbeck is not intelligent as a player. I have never seen a striker at United ever, that can't see a pass coming or constantly fail to make runs into dangerous space.

No dummy runs, no attacking free space, no attacking the far or near post, no dropping of to free up in the box and no starting a run before the pass is hit. Yesterday, when he stood there waiting for the ball from Mata I actually stood up and screamed at him to start the run, he would have been clearn trough. My mates I was watching football with (all fans of Liverpool, Spurs, Aston Villa and City) was all laughing at Welbeck and how poor he played. They know their football and are all fair of the judgement of our players. They all envy us Januzaj so bad :devil:) Not one single one of them rates Welbeck at all and I have still to meet a fan from another team that does, that says alot.
Click to expand...

I actually rate him, but good strikers don't stay still. Look at Hernandez in comparison.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
I actually rate him, but good strikers don't stay still. Look at Hernandez in comparison.
Click to expand...

What do you rate him as? People rave about his control but he seems to do that with all the grace of a fat kid struggling not to fall from the chair at school he's been swinging on.

He's the Djemba-Djemba/Liam Miller of forwards. Only he's come through the system so he gets cut an hilarious amount of slack.
 
If he wasn't a local lad, then more people would be thinking he should be moved on.

I really like him, and on his day he's a real handful - but even when he's in his natural habitat of the opposition box, he sometimes looks absolutely lost. That shouldn't happen for a top striker.
 
We shouldn't go to far, he's still a good squad player to have and if things do click for him he could be very good option for us, but right now he shouldn't be used in situations where he isn't leading the line or we're not dominating, he simply does not bring enough to the team for that. At the moment he's far too passive a player.
 
Plugsy said:
What do you rate him as? People rave about his control but he seems to do that with all the grace of a fat kid struggling not to fall from the chair at school he's been swinging on.

He's the Djemba-Djemba/Liam Miller of forwards. Only he's come through the system so he gets cut an hilarious amount of slack.
Click to expand...

He had the makings of a Drogba like player. He probably has 3 years to make it happen and then the knives will really come out.
Remember not all footballers are Giggs, Rooney or Owen.
 
I can't even count the number if times Kagawa gas pointed to where Welbeck should have made a run. He just stands around at the exact wrong moment. I'd actually say it's what he's best at.
 
I just wonder why he looks so good for England and then looks like he's confused when he puts on a red shirt. Then the next game he scores a back heel that Ronaldo would get a major love in for.
 
Last edited:
Giggsforever said:
What? In what way is that?
Click to expand...
Physically dominant. Able to pull off the hard stuff making it look easy and a rifle of a shot.
Previous posts of mine are saying it's not happening for him in any way shape or form match in match out but he is capable of it.
In 3 years he'll either make it or be known as someone that had all the tools but never lived up to it.
 
Some people in here are going to look like right twats when things really click for Welbz. I'll gladly take any abuse that comes my way for retaining faith in him for the moment, because I'm sure he'll come good. He's proven a fair bit in his stint as striker for us recently.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
Physically dominant. Able to pull off the hard stuff making it look easy and a rifle of a shot.
Previous posts of mine are saying it's not happening for him in any way shape or form match in match out but he is capable of it.
In 3 years he'll either make it or be known as someone that had all the tools but never lived up to it.
Click to expand...
Physically dominant? Rifle of a shot? Making hard stuff look easy? Are we talking about the same player?
He has a great physique but he doesn't know how to use it and gets pushed off the ball so easily. His shot is pretty bad, it's probably his biggest weakness.
 
Eriku said:
Some people in here are going to look like right twats when things really click for Welbz. I'll gladly take any abuse that comes my way for retaining faith in him for the moment, because I'm sure he'll come good. He's proven a fair bit in his stint as striker for us recently.
Click to expand...
Far too sensible Eriku. When a player has a run of bad games we have to write them off, remember?
 
Nickosaur said:
Far too sensible Eriku. When a player has a run of bad games we have to write them off, remember?
Click to expand...

Ah, feck, I forgot that Darren Fletcher never was and never became United quality. And that Kagawa's clearly a shit player because he's generally brought less dividends in his outings than Welbeck, etc. etc.

Cheers for reminding me.
 
Eriku said:
Some people in here are going to look like right twats when things really click for Welbz. I'll gladly take any abuse that comes my way for retaining faith in him for the moment, because I'm sure he'll come good. He's proven a fair bit in his stint as striker for us recently.
Click to expand...

And by the same token people may look like twats if he doesn't. It's equally annoying when he has a couple of good games and people start saying he'll score 20 a season, like after the first game against Swansea this season.

I think he's definitely good enough to make a good footballer and be a very good squad player for us, but I'm not so sure he's going to ever be a world class forward to be honest.
 
It's a real tricky one with Danny. I think it's obvious that he has quite a bit of technical ability but what position will he ever excel in? He seems too passive to lead the line as a lone striker and doesn't seem to have the creative mind of a no.10. Maybe his best position would be one in a front 2, interchanging passes and both players attempting to penetrate the defense (I recall him and Rooney having a decent partnership there). But it looks like we are trying to nail down this 4-2-3-1 formation and I just don't think Danny fits into that.

The only way he becomes a success here is if he starts to make constant runs behind the defense and taking initiative on the ball and running at defenses. He definitely doesn't have that goalscorer instinct, and I'm not sure if that is something that can be developed. That's a big problem for a player who is expected to lead the line.
 
Cheesy said:
And by the same token people may look like twats if he doesn't. It's equally annoying when he has a couple of good games and people start saying he'll score 20 a season, like after the first game against Swansea this season.

I think he's definitely good enough to make a good footballer and be a very good squad player for us, but I'm not so sure he's going to ever be a world class forward to be honest.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have to be world class for people to be totally off with their hyperbolic nonsense.
 
I've said it before, if he wants to become a top player and fulfill his potential, he'l need to move to a club a tier below us. If we tie down Rooney to a long term contract and Hernandez stays, I wouldnt mind him being Everton's main striker next season. That'd be his best bet of making it here long term.
 
Cheesy said:
Hyperbolic nonsense such as?
Click to expand...

Plugsy said:
What do you rate him as? People rave about his control but he seems to do that with all the grace of a fat kid struggling not to fall from the chair at school he's been swinging on.

He's the Djemba-Djemba/Liam Miller of forwards. Only he's come through the system so he gets cut an hilarious amount of slack.
Click to expand...

Per exemple.
 
Eriku said:
Per exemple.
Click to expand...

The last bit is unfair since he's actually got a good goalscoring record in the league this year. The first point isn't outrageous though; he's got talent but his control is often very poor, especially when he's inside the box in pressure situations. For a striker, he doesn't really excel at much as a forward which is going to hold him back significantly.
 
Cheesy said:
The last bit is unfair since he's actually got a good goalscoring record in the league this year. The first point isn't outrageous though; he's got talent but his control is often very poor, especially when he's inside the box in pressure situations. For a striker, he doesn't really excel at much as a forward which is going to hold him back significantly.
Click to expand...

His control is incredible, it's one of the things that impresses me the most. To say that he doesn't falter in certain crucial moments would be silly, but boy has he been getting better and better. Ability and bringing it out in all circumstances (and in crucial high pressure circumstances especially) are two different things.

Iuno... this forum just seems to be stuffed with people who expect players to be the whole package from the word go. That's not how it works for most players, players usually aren't Messi/Fabregas/Rooney, etc. Danny should get a few more years before he's written off as someone who can become a major profile for us.
 
Eriku said:
His control is incredible, it's one of the things that impresses me the most. To say that he doesn't falter in certain crucial moments would be silly, but boy has he been getting better and better. Ability and bringing it out in all circumstances (and in crucial high pressure circumstances especially) are two different things.
Click to expand...

It's incredibly inconsistent but I'd say calling his control incredible is a major exaggeration. There's games where he shows glimpses of it being very good, but it's too inconsitent and clumsy sometimes to be called 'incredible'. It's those crucial moments which ultimately matter the most in the end. He's undoubtedly improved, but the problem is that he's only going to continue improving if he continues to get time in a central role. With Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez, he's going to struggle to get the game time he needs to fully develop.
 
Cheesy said:
It's incredibly inconsistent but I'd say calling his control incredible is a major exaggeration. There's games where he shows glimpses of it being very good, but it's too inconsitent and clumsy sometimes to be called 'incredible'. It's those crucial moments which ultimately matter the most in the end. He's undoubtedly improved, but the problem is that he's only going to continue improving if he continues to get time in a central role. With Van Persie, Rooney and Hernandez, he's going to struggle to get the game time he needs to fully develop.
Click to expand...

I'll agree it can be inconsistent, but he has some of the most impressive close control in the club, next to Kagawa and RvP, IMO. Rooney's touch has been inconsistent at times, too, but he's still got very good control. Some people might disagree, I'm not opening a second tin of worms here so I'll leave it if so.

And yes, those moments are important, but blimey if he isn't the mirror image of Hernandez. One has all the makings of a fantastic poacher and goalscorer, the other doesn't have a hard time turning around and facing the goal and is far better at build-up play. He's two years younger, he's got more of the whole package, he just doesn't seem to be there yet in terms of striker's education... but there's no reason he can't keep improving and getting a decent amount of chances here.
 
bosnian_red said:
Physically dominant? Rifle of a shot? Making hard stuff look easy? Are we talking about the same player?
He has a great physique but he doesn't know how to use it and gets pushed off the ball so easily. His shot is pretty bad, it's probably his biggest weakness.
Click to expand...

You're picking pieces of my post. I finished up with its not clicking for him right now.
 
What is he? 23, 24. He's not even filed out yet unless he's like Rooney and even he got a bit wider. I'd anyone can't see the lads a bit gangly then they're blind. Drogba wasn't the monster of a striker at Danny's age
 
Billy Blaggs said:
Physically dominant. Able to pull off the hard stuff making it look easy and a rifle of a shot.
Previous posts of mine are saying it's not happening for him in any way shape or form match in match out but he is capable of it.
In 3 years he'll either make it or be known as someone that had all the tools but never lived up to it.
Click to expand...

He do not have the balance to make his physic count and he is not even close to being as strong as Drogba. He can't rifle the shots like that either. You are adding qualities and natural ability to him that he really do not have. You can develope a player, but you have to be born with alot of it as well. I can't see anything of what you are talking about Billy.
 
Giggsforever said:
He do not have the balance to make his physic count and he is not even close to being as strong as Drogba. He can't rifle the shots like that either. You are adding qualities and natural ability to him that he really do not have. You can develope a player, but you have to be born with alot of it as well. I can't see anything of what you are talking about Billy.
Click to expand...

Your ignoring the fact that he's not much more than a kid. That's why I said we'll see what he's really about in around 3 years.
 
Welbeck needs to start working on his physique and utilizing it better. He's quick as feck but he doesn't make enough dangerous runs in behind - instead he drops deep and tries to play intricate stuff, which he's good but not great at. He also needs to look to attack crosses more often. Given that we put a lot of crosses into the box it's a bit ridiculous that we have a 6ft plus centre forward who barely ever gets on the end of them. He's no Drogba but he should be strong enough to at least cause CBs some problems. He'll never have the instinctive movement in the box that Hernandez has but he'll never improve that aspect of his game if he continues to take the comfortable option - which for him is to drop deep or drift wide and play the ball to feet. If he sees himself as a number 10 then he is doomed to fail at United. If he can show some desire and aggression then he could yet be a very good number 9.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
Your ignoring the fact that he's not much more than a kid. That's why I said we'll see what he's really about in around 3 years.
Click to expand...

I have never ignored his age (where did you get that from?). He is 23 and with all the development he has to make, age is in fact against him. It's harder to develope his ability at that age and it will get harder and harder. At this stage his development should have been about getting smarter and doing small adjustments to his game, not improve his ability.

Januzaj is 18, he will have a real chance at reaching the level Drogba played at (not trying to compare players, just ability and development).
 
I don't see this incredible touch. I see a player who is in his fourth full season as a first team player and yet people still make excuses for him. He's 24 this year not 19. If the basics aren't there at this age they're never coming.

Who of our rivals on either domestic or European stage would want him?

Forlan struggled here but he did everything right but score goals. Welbeck isn't at that position, there is so much about his game that really shouldn;t be for a player of his age and amount of top-level exposure.

People need to stop judging him based on where he's come from because it's getting ridiculous. He'll probably make a fine player for a Stoke or a West Brom but there's virtually nothing about his game that looks good enough for the level we'd require, even for a substitute striker. Not one. This "incredible" touch he has must desert him whenever the ball is near as you lose count of the amount of times he falls on his bum or the ball just deflects inadvertently off his person.

Yes he can sometimes control the ball, yes he can sometimes pass but that isn't unique. That isn't a asset to praise, that's a basic. He also doesn't stick two pencils up his nose, put a pair of under-crackers on his head and shout "Wibble" but based on that to claim he has 'incredible intelligence' would also be an overstatement.
 
Iniesta has an incredible touch. Thiago has an incredible touch. Welbeck sometimes displays a couple of incredible touches in a game. There is a marked difference between Iniesta and Thiago and our Danny in terms of touch. The two Masia graduates display that technique in every game and consistently throughout the course of a season.

Welbeck is a decent player. A good homegrown squad player but his talent just isn't on the level of a guy like Thiago, despite what Fergie says. The sane ones among us will admit that.
 
Giggsforever said:
At this stage his development should have been about getting smarter and doing small adjustments to his game, not improve his ability.
Click to expand...

Exactly, these years should be about tweaking and improving upon nuances of his game not needing to develop wholesale skill-sets such as 'being a striker'. We should be saying things like "he's more effective in the hole" or "he's a poacher, leave him in box".

Instead it's "he'll come good". Generic, overly optimistic and meaningless.
 
Last edited:
Plugsy said:
I don't see this incredible touch. I see a player who is in his fourth full season as a first team player and yet people still make excuses for him. He's 24 this year not 19. If the basics aren't there at this age they're never coming.

Who of our rivals on either domestic or European stage would want him?

Forlan struggled here but he did everything right but score goals. Welbeck isn't at that position, there is so much about his game that really shouldn;t be for a player of his age and amount of top-level exposure.

People need to stop judging him based on where he's come from because it's getting ridiculous. He'll probably make a fine player for a Stoke or a West Brom but there's virtually nothing about his game that looks good enough for the level we'd require, even for a substitute striker. Not one. This "incredible" touch he has must desert him whenever the ball is near as you lose count of the amount of times he falls on his bum or the ball just deflects inadvertently off his person.

Yes he can sometimes control the ball, yes he can sometimes pass but that isn't unique. That isn't a asset to praise, that's a basic. He also doesn't stick two pencils up his nose, put a pair of under-crackers on his head and shout "Wibble" but based on that to claim he has 'incredible intelligence' would also be an overstatement.
Click to expand...

I don't really want to get into a massive debate about it, as you (and many others) have clearly have made your mind up about Welbeck.

I've highlighted the part of your post which I really take issue with. Your argument would be valid if you completely ignored the period of time when Danny played up front for us, covering for RVP, and played well, and scored goals. You say Welbeck is not even good enough to be a back-up option for us. I think covering our star striker while he's injured and getting 6 goals in 6 games is the definition of a good backup striker, no? He's been played so much out of position in the past few seasons, and posters have been saying for years on here that his all round game is great, he just needs to add goals. He's done that - playing as a striker too, crazy.

Danny was terrible against Sunderland and Stoke. Really bad, I can't defend that. But he's not alone - collectively as a team we are playing some of the worst football I've ever seen. We've played some excellent stuff with Welbeck in the team in the past. Welbeck's form has been quite hit and miss this season but he's not performed as badly as Young, Valencia, Hernandez, even Kagawa in my opinion. In fact, Welbeck offers far more than Hernandez does in his all round play, and has more goals than him this season. What are your thoughts of Hernandez?

Already rambling. Basically, I think Danny is more than capable of being 3rd of 4th choice striker for United. Who knows, he might be twice the player in a couple of seasons when RVP leaves. To completely write him off is foolish, but hey that's just my opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.