RvP is on the wrong side of 30s. So Welbeck will have enough chances to establish himself as a strkier which is his best position IMO. But there are questions marks over his mentality. He works a lot but seems to be mentally fragile
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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RvP is on the wrong side of 30s. So Welbeck will have enough chances to establish himself as a strkier which is his best position IMO. But there are questions marks over his mentality. He works a lot but seems to be mentally fragile
Agreed, not good enough for a top club.
I'd love to agree however have you saw him in front of goal, couldn't score in a brothel comes to mind.
True, maybe the club is to big for him?
Fair enough. Generally speaking, our offensive players have been lacking an end product worth capitalising on but they still possess other qualities so the manager see a place for them in the team, but out of their favourable position.
A loan would be good for him, he's in terrible form and isn't helped by Moyes who is throwing him out there without giving him the chance to build his confidence up with substitutions.
I have always backed him to become a top player. So much so, that I am on record that he could be one of the 24/30 nominees for WPOTY/whatever it is called now.
As someone has said, he is skilled enough. It is getting it right mentally which is the problem. I am not sure when it will happen but when it does he will make a lot of people look stupid.
I think he feels much less pressure playing for England than for us, which is strange. I really hope he gets things together here.
As someone has said, he is skilled enough. It is getting it right mentally which is the problem. I am not sure when it will happen but when it does he will make a lot of people look stupid.
I think he feels much less pressure playing for England than for us, which is strange. I really hope he gets things together here.
Just think: if his decline continues for another couple of years or so then Celtic could sign him and he would be your best player since Henrik Larsson. It is a cruel world.
He was really poor, he doesn't even look fit, if there is one attribute for which his haters would admit that it's great, than it's his pace, and he doesn't look half as fast at the moment.
But I still think hate for him it's really ridiculous, considering this thread has more than three pages of people discrediting him for last night performance, and there you have Valencia, who is first team regular, undropable at the moment, fully fit, has all the time and space of this world, who is supposed to supply the likes of Welbeck, and he has created how many chances for our strikers in last 2 premierleague games exactly?
How can you expect anything from Welbeck when you have Valencia "creating" chances for him? Van Persie barely has few good games this year as a striker, how can you expect anything from Welbeck who is just back from injury and thrown into team that can't create decent chance for his strikers at the moment.
And for all the talk about Hernandez being better striker than him, that's two games in a row where Welbeck is bellow average, with yesterday's game being one of his worst for United, and with bringing Hernandez in both games our team performance is becoming even worse, we immediately stopped creating anything in both games after brining Hernandez on. I have nothing against Hernandez, but that's just showing that you can't blame striker for anything that's happening in the team at the moment, even Rooney who is excellent poacher barely got into any goalscoring position, and how could he, when our delivery in the box is awfull this season, and in general, our play in final third is terrible.
But I still think hate for him it's really ridiculous, considering this thread has more than three pages of people discrediting him for last night performance, and there you have Valencia, who is first team regular, undropable at the moment, fully fit, has all the time and space of this world, who is supposed to supply the likes of Welbeck, and he has created how many chances for our strikers in last 2 premierleague games exactly?
How can you expect anything from Welbeck when you have Valencia "creating" chances for him? Van Persie barely has few good games this year as a striker, how can you expect anything from Welbeck who is just back from injury and thrown into team that can't create decent chance for his strikers at the moment.
And for all the talk about Hernandez being better striker than him, that's two games in a row where Welbeck is bellow average, with yesterday's game being one of his worst for United, and with bringing Hernandez in both games our team performance is becoming even worse, we immediately stopped creating anything in both games after brining Hernandez on. I have nothing against Hernandez, but that's just showing that you can't blame striker for anything that's happening in the team at the moment, even Rooney who is excellent poacher barely got into any goalscoring position, and how could he, when our delivery in the box is awfull this season, and in general, our play in final third is terrible.
He can't be trusted to start games. He is not a match winner, he misses sitters, he doesn't create anything. He works hard, but so what? He's not good enough to be starting games, and wouldn't get near any other top side. Every time a good chance falls to him you just know he will somehow make a mess of it.
I think most people just expect crap from Valencia now... but most people (like me) believe there is a good footballer in Danny Welbeck, and he is capable of a lot more then he is currently showing.
Also, as I said in this thread, his performance last night was one of the worst individual performances from any of our players this season - if not the worst - so it's hardly surprising he's getting a lot of stick for it.
I think the majority believe he can still become a great player for us though.
He shouldn't have started the last 2 EPL games. Especially out of position yet a Nani was ace vs Leverkursen.
I think 'great' is strong, personally I've never felt he's looked potentially great, that just seemed like people overblowing him a bit because he's an academy product, a bit like they did with Cleverley, only unlike Cleverley, he clearly does have the potential to be good enough to be at Utd long term. I doubt he'll become a great player though, he's a striker and by now we should've seen more than we have, as they generally mature earlier than midfielders and such.
I think he could become great - he'll probably just become good... but there is potential in there.
He badly needs confidence though... I also want him to have an off the ball movement seminar with guest lecturer Javier Hernandez.
Yeah that'd be good. It's a shame no device exists to combine the two of them together, they'd basically transform into the perfect striker then. Welandez? Hernanbeck?
.... Hernanback sounds like the name of a cowboy or heroic outlaw.
He'd be the meanest Lesbian in all of the west.
So Welbeck being thrown in when out of form/not fit is damaging his confidence? And Hernandez never getting a run of games is likely damaging his.
I'm beginning to think Moyes is a secret agent....
I'm beginning to think Moyes is a secret agent....
But then that's unfair on Welbeck, or any other player who is getting similar treatment. As I said, how can we expect better from Welbeck, when 45% of our attacks is coming from the right side, from the player who has 2 assists this season, even though he is starting every game.
I know that Welbeck was really poor, I am big fan of him, but it was really one of his worst performances for us, but I think our strikers are having toughest job at the moment. If you compare van Persie's performances with his last years, you can see obvious difference. It's not just the movemant inside the box, I don't think we are giving them much space outside of the box too, whenever they get the ball anywhere across the pitch you can expect them to lose it because they are easily marked by minimum one player, they are easily taken out of the game, I don't know why is that, but maybe the managers are figured out that it's better to mark our strikers properly, than bothering to double our "wingers".
And I don't think there is lot of people who think that he can become great player for us, if anything, most of people here are baffled by those thoughts, and always were, even at his best form. I am like you though, I really think he is top talent, and that he should perform better, and I am fine with criticiseing him for last night's performance, but in the current setup, I cannot expect much better of him anyway, because if you compare him with van Persie the only difference is that van Persie was scoring goals earlier this season(I know goals are big difference, but van Persie is great at that aspect, where Welbeck was always poor in front of goal), van Persie's movemant and all around play weren't much better too, if anything, I think van Persie was losing possession much more often.
As long as we aren't creating enough chances for our strikers, and they aren't scoring goals regulary, I think our general view on their performance will be unfair, even though if their all-around play is more than good. It's really simple, if Welbeck scored the winning goal yesterday, even if it was a tap in created by someone else, I think he would get MOTM, the difference is that tiny, but yet so big.
I don't think a goal would have got him MOTM last night... but to be honest, we could have played that game all night and Welbeck would never have scored. He didn't even want to get into the right positions to even maybe get an opportunity... There was a point where he ran to the front post when a cross came in and gave the most half-hearted attempt at trying to head a ball that I think I may have ever seen. He clearly wasn't fit and had no confidence in himself either.
I cannot agree with this.
Bold part, I really think it would, I am not saying it would be deserved or something like that, but it would just change people's opinion on his performance, as always. Even when he is having good performance, some people say he was crap because he missed chance or two, like against Cardiff. Goals change people's view on players performance, that's my point.
I agree on the second part though.
As I explained in this post, I am not saying his performance was good that goal would led him to deserving a MOTM, it would just change people's opinion on his performance:
I think on the caf, a goal by Welbeck wouldn't have changed that many views when the general performance just stinks like that. Goals do change the perception on players but Welbeck was too crap for a single goal to change the views on him IMHO/
I really think it would, but we'll never know. As I said, against Cardiff he was breath of fresh air, we really started playing better when he was brought on, but yet first thing that people noticed was his miss, I think just few posters said his performance was very good, and others just criticised him for his miss. Goals change people's view on player's performance, van Persie is obvious example for that. Whenever he finishes game without goal, people say it wasn't his best performance, but if he scores in next game and plays poorly, people say how he is back to his best.
He's a squad player, whose weakness is magnified by our poor form. He's the John O'Shea of our attack. Not good enough to hold one position, but willing to played various position to cover for someone better. As a striker his finishing is woeful, as a winger he can't beat his man consistently, but he's disciplined and can do a job as long as it's not about scoring regularly. If the rest of our attackers is in form then playing him will not matter very much. If we're hoping for him to be a game changer, it's never going to happen.
He will definitely start on Saturday. I'm convinced he's another player Moyes has taken a liking to because he's a grafter.
Depressing really when better players putting in 20 minute cameos can't get the same treatment when offering more of a threat.
Depressing really when better players putting in 20 minute cameos can't get the same treatment when offering more of a threat.
He's a forward, of course goals is part of the criteria to judged him
He's a striker who does anything but strike. He can't shoot and in a lot of games moves in and around the box breakdown as soon as the ball gets to his feet. What use is he if he's poor in the one area of the pitch he is supposed to command? Centre forwards are judged by goals first then everything else. He gets off lightly because he's a local lad. He'll never be good enough for us. He along with Young and Anderson are players I can't wait to see leave the club.
He's going to be a top player. I think it's pretty likely he'll be among our best players by the time he's 25 - he's only just turned 23!
All this criticism is all well and good and I agree with pretty much all of it and then some.
But chances are he'll score with a deflected goal off his arse on Saturday and this thread will be full of
"See, feck you doubters! fecking disgraceful how a home grown talent gets treated. He will be immense!!1!"
But chances are he'll score with a deflected goal off his arse on Saturday and this thread will be full of
"See, feck you doubters! fecking disgraceful how a home grown talent gets treated. He will be immense!!1!"
If RVP or Rooney are in scoring positions that need quickness of thought...then you feel confident there's a big chance of a goal, with Welbeck you just don't have that feeling. There is a big difference. You can't teach that..it's instinctive.
Thank you.
I don't want to live in a world where Lynk was right about Danny Welbeck...but I think it's becoming that world. feck my life.
What makes you say that? He can't score and he certainly can't create.
You know Lukaku will be a top player one day. Where as I don't have that feeling with Welbeck.
Yeah but Lukaku is lying about his true age.
I've been saying it since we signed RVP - he needs a good year or two on loan to hone his finishing. Playing on the wing and sporadically up front will lead to stagnation in his development and his career will be that of O'Shea, playing as a back up in numerous positions until eventually being shipped off to Sunderland.
The fact is he hasn't improved at all in the last 3 years, at a stage in his development where he should have come on leaps and bounds. You look at Lukaku's progression and think that 2 years on loan and he could be ready to step in as RVP starts to fade. At least if he didn't make it after starting up front at Swansea every week we could be content knowing he just wasn't good enough to make it.
The fact is he hasn't improved at all in the last 3 years, at a stage in his development where he should have come on leaps and bounds. You look at Lukaku's progression and think that 2 years on loan and he could be ready to step in as RVP starts to fade. At least if he didn't make it after starting up front at Swansea every week we could be content knowing he just wasn't good enough to make it.
In 2004/2005 when Van Persie was 22 he scored 10 in 41. A goal in every 4.1 games.
In 2004/2005 when Van Persie was 23 he scored 11 in 38. A goal in every 3.45 games.
In 2010/2011 when Welbeck was 20 he scored 6 in 28 for Sunderland. A goal in every 4.6 games.
In 2011/2012 when Welbeck was 21 he scored 12 in 39. A goal in every 4.1 games. 3.12 games.
This is when both players have been predominantly played as a forward. I think it's worth thinking about for a bit of perspective. In my opinion his finishing ability has been greatly hampered by his lack of game time up front with the likes of Berbatov, Rooney, Van Persie and Hernandez ahead of him there.
In 2004/2005 when Van Persie was 23 he scored 11 in 38. A goal in every 3.45 games.
In 2010/2011 when Welbeck was 20 he scored 6 in 28 for Sunderland. A goal in every 4.6 games.
In 2011/2012 when Welbeck was 21 he scored 12 in 39. A goal in every 4.1 games. 3.12 games.
This is when both players have been predominantly played as a forward. I think it's worth thinking about for a bit of perspective. In my opinion his finishing ability has been greatly hampered by his lack of game time up front with the likes of Berbatov, Rooney, Van Persie and Hernandez ahead of him there.
Comparative stats mean feck all. You can just tell by watching that Welbeck is not gonna reach Van Persies level. And besides, Van Persie played on the wing and had the likes of Pires, Henry and Bergkamp ahead of him that season. So there goes your argument.
So within two years he'll learn how to finish, learn how to guard the ball and use his strength, learn how to be decisive in matches, learn how to create chances actually, improve his off the ball movement immensely, and basically change completely as a player? Pretty much the only thing he's got going for him is he has a pretty good touch, pretty good passing and he's fast, and tall, and strong. He doesn't know how to use his strength though, and he doesn't even show his speed when he needs to half the time.
Anyways, I don't think he'll become a good player at United by playing on the wing, and he won't get the chance up top because he isn't good enough. He needs a loan to a smaller team where he will play up front consistently, and he needs one badly.
You could tell by watching Ramsey last season he'd end up at a midtable side.. it's the nature of young players, they can go through extremely quiet patches and seem quite a lot worse than they are.
Anyway, you can clearly tell that Welbeck is out of shape after missing close to 2 months with a knee injury that he's in all likelihood still carrying but is playing through, harsh to judge his level based on these two games. He was fine for us and good for England before the injury.
Anyway, you can clearly tell that Welbeck is out of shape after missing close to 2 months with a knee injury that he's in all likelihood still carrying but is playing through, harsh to judge his level based on these two games. He was fine for us and good for England before the injury.
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