Reading that was like trying to understand that scene in the Matrix 3 where Neo met the creature.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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Reading that was like trying to understand that scene in the Matrix 3 where Neo met the creature.
From discussing whether he's good or not to people who support his club wanting him to fail? Wtf?
Amazing.
Its not really though is it.
If Welbeck was starting every week at a small club with fans who arent as demanding with lower expectations i think we all know we'd see a far different story.
Learning your trade with a top team is far more challenging the Dutch league will ever be.
but dont let that stop the lol's now eh?
While those are very valid points, it does beg the question, why was the Ruud comparison made in the first place?
Not 100% certain. Its probably Welbecks fault either way though...
Fiskey asked what Ruud was doing at his age and than Giggsforever told what he was doing, which was much better that what Welbeck is doing. Then Fiskey called people brain dead idiots, because he was owned in an argument he started himself. That is what I found hilarious.
Saying that, I don't see the need to compare Welbeck with the great strikers of last generation. Except to a few people who thought that he will be the greatest thing ever, it was pretty obvious for a long time that he won't be a Henry/RVN calibre of player. Personally I'll be happy if he reaches the Saha level (without injuries) and I think that he has a good chance to reach that level, which will be great for both him and United. We don't need all players to be best in the world in their position.
It is a ridiculous thread anyway (same like Cleverley thread, but now it has become more difficult to defend Cleverley after he regularly gives Liam Miller performances). People are more attacking each other than talking about Welbeck. There is a group of posters who think that Welbeck is better than Maradona and Pele combined, and attack anyone who suggests that he is not. Then in return the other group turn the favour by explaining than he's worse than Heskey. And the cycle goes on with people calling each other idiots. What I think though (not that important anyway) is that Welbeck is a talented player with a big problem, his inability to score goals. The biggest problem is that he hasn't shown any sign that he can improve it. He is good at many other attributes although, and at the moment he is a useful squad players (especially with all our senior wingers being a bit shit at the moment). However if he wants a future here, I think that he needs to improve that aspect of his game. I agree with an another poster who said that people are criticizing him for the same things he was criticized 2 years ago, which shows that he has really stagnated here, and it's a bit worrying. Being played out of position is not an excuse for losing clear chances (by the way, I don't think that yesterday's chance was that easy to score as has been said by some), and there is no way that he'll play as a striker as long as we have three superior strikers in his position. Being shit at finishing is a big problem, regardless if he plays as a winger or as a striker.
To conclude, at the moment he looks what he did 2 years ago, a talented young striker/winger with potential to become a good/very good player. Until he becomes that good player though, I found very biased and stupid when I see people saying that he'll become another Henry, is already one of our best players, better than Sturridge/Balotelli/Lukaku or he'll score 20 goals this season. Countering this opinions, doesn't mean that those posters hate him and want to see him fail.
My suggestion would be because they're right. Or because what awful woe it is supporting Man United when they play homegrown players rather than buying superstars. Or in some cases, maybe they even just took an irrational dislike to a certain player.
Your example is a good one. Another would be fans who take a perverse pleasure when their teams gets an unjust decision when playing against United. Because they then relish the opportunity for a good old rant about how corrupt it all is. (see Andy@Allerton on RAWK)
Welbeck often gets compared to Dirk Kuyt (due to their willingness to work hard and sacrifice their own output for the team), who regularly got 20+ goals (more than 1 goal in 2 games) in the Dutch league in his early 20s.
Who knows how many goals Welbeck would get playing as a striker every week these days? He scores regularly enough for England when he's played up top, and they are pretty shit.
I agree with the a lot of what you say above. The extreme sides of the argument are as bad as each other.
I do however think hes a more rounded player and has developed in the last 2 years. The problem with his finishing as I see it is a mental one and not something thats down to ability.
I think we've all seen enough of him to know "its" in there somewhere. If hes still at this stage in 18 months there will be serious question marks over him then. Still think time is on his side. Playing regularly upfront for England will hopefully help from our point of view....
In some aspects of his game, definitely yes. He's probably the best player in the league when it comes to do pressure against the opposition. I meant, he hasn't progressed (some would say even regrassed) when it comes to finishing and composure. I agree that it is a mental problem, he definitely has on it to score goals. We have seen wonderful finishes from here a lot of times (from the youth levels to the goal vs Swansea). But there have been a lot of talented players who because they were 'weak' mentally, never made it. Quaresma for example, was so talented that could have been one of the best in the world. I am not saying that Welbeck is in this category, but he might be. It will be a real test for him if he can pass this mental barrier. If by the end of next season (summer 2015) he hasn't improved a lot in finishing then I agree, time to move on. Until then I think is a bit stupid both wanting him out or saying that he'll become the next Henry.
You're hung up on this one season. He played the next season as well. Let me remind you again, my post was answering someone that talked about him and Cleverley not getting chances. The next season he didn't play striker, not just because of RvP. It's not like he was just playing striker the season before. Hernandez played 36 games last season. That's 36 games of him playing ahead of Welbeck (excluding the ones where they played together up front but I can't remember any). It's not like he didn't get plenty of goalscoring chances and it's not like he was playing as a winger just because he was on the left.
I am being fair. I'm talking about why he isn't playing as a striker. I'm not shitting all over him. The fact is that he's a poor finisher. He's poor at what makes a top striker a top striker. It's a quality that's one of the hardest aspects of football to get better at because it's mostly in your head. All these footballers can hit a pinpoint pass from 50 yards with no pressure on them in training. Very few can finish a goalscoring chance properly. I know he got a decent shot on him. He has power, he has technique but he needs more. And I agree, he won't be able to improve here at United. I'm not even sure he'll be able to improve that elsewhere either. That means he'll never be anymore than a squad player here. You agree with that as well.
Let me make this clear, I don't think he was bad in his first season. I don't think he was great compared to other players. Being 20 and it being his first season I thought he did very well by comparison. However, I've always been skeptical because we've had Hernandez as a direct comparison the whole time and I just like him that much more upfront.
Why is he playing on the left though, for club and country? Might it have something to do with his goalscoring abilities and the fact that there is very slim pickens on the left for United and England?
He's now past the point where we can keep making excuses for his finishing. He's just turned 23 - while there is clearly much more scope for development in his game, it's not unreasonable to expect him to take more of the presentable chances that come his way. He's certainly no novice.
I can understand why people are so keen to champion Danny - he's a youth team product, a local lad, blessed with good technique and a really hard worker, but his finishing, a pretty key component for a forward, is dire.
People have compared Danny to Kuyt - that's harsh on the latter, who was actually a regular and big game goalscorer for Liverpool.
I would love to see Welbeck play ahead of Rooney today. Please.
Same here.
No thanks.
Kagawa behind Rooney. It's too big a game to risk playing Welbeck as a striker.
Why would you want to leave out our most in form player, let alone in form striker, who provides goals for our team to put in someone who is struggling to score for the past 2 seasons in a game where we need to win to make sure we get top spot? Play him as a striker against a weaker team to prove your point, not an important one.
Nobody wants Rooney to be left out. Either Kagawa and Rooney or Rooney and Welbeck.
I misread it as instead of, if that makes sense.
Why the hell should United and Moyes gamle on today's game? This game is so very important to us, we need to field as strong team as possible and we already have Vidic, Carrick and RVP out, we can't afford to put a player like Rooney out. We have to rely on him leading us to victory today.
I've been very critical of Welbeck, but this is really a good point. I retract my earlier post about getting rid of him (although he needs to become more clinical, obviously.)
I have a feeling he'll get some time against Spurs. He's been out injured for a fair while so we probably don't want to rush him into games. Plus despite all his obvious quality, until he sorts out the shooting he doesn't have much of a shout for the forward position, so he's going to have to be patient fighting it out with the wingers for game time.
As always, if you're a fan of the team not the individual players, it's a nice problem to have.
As always, if you're a fan of the team not the individual players, it's a nice problem to have.
Yeah if he's fit he'll probably come off the bench to add some legs and energy, winning or losing.
Big game for Welbeck. He performed really well in a 4-3-3 at WHL earlier this year. Expecting some big moments from him in this match.
Good luck to him. If we play with the fluidity of midweek, he should get some chances, he is bound to put one in.
im sure he will be great tonight. Him and Kagawa can amplify their virtues playing together. I cant say he will score (i hope so), but im sure he will have a big game. Cmon Danny boy!!!
Pleased he is starting, gets criticised too often on here
He's been non-existent thus far.
He was out of the game on the left, been central to the improvement in possession since he's swapped with Kagawa and we've controlled the game.
His energy level and mobility are well down on his usual standards, can only assume he's still carrying that knee injury but is playing through it.
Moyes fault... i think
He should stick to the left, but he is just moving freely and Kagawa got stuck in the left...
i hope moyes fix this for the second half. some good 1-2 so far but needs to get more out of his pace.
A bit rusty still. Combine well with Valencia towards the end of the half
Welbeck playing out wide always screams negativity for me, he clearly offers so much less than either Adnan or Nani do and I feel he's purely there for his work rate and what he offers defensively, which hasn't been a lot today because Lennon has been probably the most dangerous player on the field.
He is purely there for his defensive contribution when on the left - although he has become a lot more useful when moved centrally today
Shouldn't be playing then should he. Rafael is "not fit" and he's not playing.
Yeah definitely, the odd thing is that he's clearly been told to come inside as well so it's not like he's actually doing a job on lennon/walker, so he's not adding defensively and we're getting nothing down the left side. I don't think Nani would offer that much less defensively certainly not in this particular game but he would definitely give them more to think about in attack, likewise januzaj. With Giggs out as well we've lost a fair bit of attacking threat/creativity from midweek.
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