You seem to have made 2 incorrect assumptions here. Firstly, that I have somewhere said Welbeck was shit. I haven't. I just disagreed that he was the best player on the pitch, because he wasn't. Secondly, that I have somewhere said that Gerrard was shit. Again, I haven't. In fact I said in another thread that I thought he played well.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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You seem to have made 2 incorrect assumptions here. Firstly, that I have somewhere said Welbeck was shit. I haven't. I just disagreed that he was the best player on the pitch, because he wasn't. Secondly, that I have somewhere said that Gerrard was shit. Again, I haven't. In fact I said in another thread that I thought he played well.
Agree with this. Worked hard as ever, gets into some decent positions but is let down at times by his decision making. Does a good job for the current England team.
I worry that at United, if a better player comes along he wont get the regular football he probably deserves to get, even if its elsewhere. Fundamentally, his finishing and first touch are average for me, and I think that stops him becoming a really top player.
Chill, wasn't directed solely at you.
He is not a natural goalscorer.That may never change but it should improve.Van Persie was never prolific at the same age but much better all the same.That can be worked on.
His first touch is not brilliant but hardly shocking.That will most surely improve and as a result we should have a very good player on our hands who is likely to spend his whole career with us.We're lucky to have Danny I think.
He does some gorgeous stuff outside the box and then whenever he actually gets a chance at goal it's like his brain morphs into that of a newborn giraffe and his legs buckle all over the place.
But it shouldn't even be partly directed at me as I never insinuated that anyone proclaimed that Welbeck was 'world class'.
The problem with that arguments is the obvious fact that the vast majority of players who aren't as good as RVP at 21 don't go on to develop into a top class centre forward. Even if he wasnt "prolific" at a young age, he's very much the exception.
As I've said before, I like Danny Welbeck because he's a local lad made good and his attitude is excellent. The question is whether he's good enough to hold down a regular place. As it is he's not anywhere near the standard of Wayne Rooney or RVP so finds himself shunted out wide. He's a good option but its not beyond the realms of possibility that United either buy, or develop a player in the next couple of years who are better than him in that role. Januzaj looks like he might be the player - in his first game he looked much more dangerous in that position, albeit we should obviously reserve judgment for a while yet.
Top level football is a game of fine margins and I dont think things like first touch, finishing and composure neccessarily improve massively for the vast majority of players - largerly because they're "instinctive" rather than something that can be learned.
I of course hope he does improve and does become a superstar - I just dont think it'll happen based on what I've seen. No doubt he can have a long and succesful career at United - if he's preapred to not neccessarily be a regular week in week out and considered a marquee name.
For me the reality is that in his best position, he isnt good enough as it is get a regular start in the best XI. I think outwide he does well but it isnt his natural position - and I suspect we'll need more quality and production in that position in the near future.
I can see why United fans like the lad - but if he were playing for another team I suspect the opinions on him would be different.
Composure under pressure is a massive part of the game - its what all the truly top players have which allows them to not only be consistent, but to do it in thebig games when it counts.
Another good performance but he just has so little luck in the box. Composure is part of the problem but I think that little bit of luck is just missing for him atm. I think when you have the other player on the flank, in this case Towsend playing really well, and Rooney doing well too, then it's not such an issue, but if they weren't playing that well then could easily see Welbecks place being under threat. He's still not really a creator but he's not got that cutting edge yet either. Still think it's only a matter of time before that changes and when it does he can become a top player.
You named a number of players, not including Gerrard, who you said were "comfortably better" than Welbeck. None of them were. You could make a semi sensible argument for Rooney I suppose, since he scored and generally played well, but the other two made no sense at all. Baines didn't even have anything to do other than stand in acres of space the entire game and take as long as he pleased to fire crosses in...and even that was partly down to Welbeck.
The ignorance of Gerrard to name Baines and Townsend also suggests to me that his performance was just ignored since it was blatantly staring anyone who cared to look in the face that he was better and more influencial than either of those two.
The only way anyone can think Welbeck didn't play well is if they basically just ignored the entire game and judged the whole thing on him spooning that chance from the corner or something. There can't have been more than about 30 seconds during the entire game where he wasn't involved in some way. He even bailed his centrebacks out numerous times. I mean feck me, what more do you want?
If you want him scoring tons of goals you don't play him as a left winger, and as it happens his goalscoring record for England would be very good even if he was played as a striker in every game. If him and Sturridge did sort their clown like finishing out then on last night's evidence England would suddenly be one of the most dangerous teams going.
His ball retention is so good, let's hope Roy doesn't substitute him for Andy Carroll after 60 mins again in Brazil, easily the worst decision Roy has made as England manager.
Completely agree it was Hodgson's worst decision, but it wasn't his ball retention that was the primary reason he was essential to England's chances in that game. Once he left the pitch there was noone in the England side that high up the pitch with the defensive positional sense to cut off the passes to Pirlo and he took over the game. We were lucky to hold out for penalties.
Gets far too much stick for very few indiscretions
Indeed, we were in desperate need of both those attributes in that game so it was completely baffling/infuriating when Roy took him off. Roy does seem to like him, and trusts and values him quite a bit though so I doubt he would make the same mistake again. Iirc, Welbeck had 93% accuracy vs Italy (or was it the whole tournament?)...
Rapidly becoming the nearly man of Utd.So much ability but goodness knows what happens in his head when he puts on a Utd shirt
Frankly, it's about time Kagawa and Hernanez were ahead of him in the pecking order. Sturridge is miles better
So, it's all Welbeck's fault now?
He rarely saw any of the ball, and only situation where he should have done better was when he opted for passing it to Rooney instead of dribbling.
He rarely saw any of the ball, and only situation where he should have done better was when he opted for passing it to Rooney instead of dribbling.
Unfortunately Moyes doesn't see that
Is he the new scapegoat now? You make me laugh some of you.
He's become that long time ago, he barely saw any of the ball and his thread was bumped from some reason.
I can't really comment on the game, because I overslept and missed most of it but I saw the goal on a crappy stream and well its an individual error that happens. Also did not see the reason why Smalling was brought on. But Welbeck is not the only reason we dropped points.
He frustrated me so much today. Took too long everytime we had the ball in a dangerous area today.
It's funny how people think he's ahead of Hernandez in the pecking order. Barring the Manchester derby, when was he picked instead of Hernandez to play up front over the past couple of seasons?
I'm certain Hernandez has played more times up front whenever one of Rooney or RvP were unavailable.
I'm certain Hernandez has played more times up front whenever one of Rooney or RvP were unavailable.
He left De Gea to mark a soton defender and then missed his header, soton subsequently scored due in parts to the missed header and the fact De Gea was being blocked off on the line. Danny is slightly to blame here. I love the dude so im not trying to have a go for no reason.
The minutes he had today was pointless, he is so ineffective in every aspect. I think he and Fellaini is starting to look a bit alike in that aspect, they seem to have no clear style or preference and it all seems a bit random when their in possession.
I think his development would have been better if he was out on loan and got to play 90 min every game and got to develope into a certain role or position. Because he is as of now lacking a lot.
I think his development would have been better if he was out on loan and got to play 90 min every game and got to develope into a certain role or position. Because he is as of now lacking a lot.
Welbeck annoys me but that fault isn't exclusive to him. A lot of our attacking players take far too long to try something when we're in an attacking area.
First touch was poor today and took too long with his decision making.
It's nothing new though with him and not exclusively today. His decision making and especially the pace of his decision making really has to improve.
Sometimes he looks so fast, and other times so slow. He had decent opportunities to do something useful while he was on the pitch but his speed of thought wasted them. That chance to play in Rooney for a clear chance sums it up. He left their defender in his wake then somehow got caught before he could release the ball. Seriously needs to work on being sharper and more decisive.
Of course he wasn't, the critics are ridiculous, but people for some reason think he should have come in and dribbled past 5 players and score a goal all by himself.
I wouldn't worry about it though, its always kneejerk.
He's not the reason we lost the game, of course not.
But the improvement in his forward play is practically nil. And he has no confidence whatsoever when he has a chance to shoot.
But the improvement in his forward play is practically nil. And he has no confidence whatsoever when he has a chance to shoot.
Actually it is far from ridiculous, what's ridiculous is your assumption that we as football fans are rather poor observers of the game and certain players in particular.
your initial post said it all...he should have done better. How many time are we going to keep saying it, he's had chance after chance. I would love danny to really become a star due to him being a local lad and homegrown but it's now saddening me to see him not deliver
As good as he could be, Welbeck has always been overrated on this forum. Still, it wasn't Welbeck's fault Southampton were better than us today.
Overrated by a few who are getting tedious at this stage. Most people have a balanced opinion / point-of-view of him.
Think you're missing the point of the debate. No one's blaming him for today just the lack of any impact whenever he seems to play
I have literally not seen one person blame him for today's result.
He had one good chance,where he decided not to be selfish and instead of passing should have go for dribble, and you call that chance after chance? And it's not like he was in one on one situation with the keeper and he missed it, it was decent chance which would never happen if he wasn't that fast in first place. I don't think either of Rooney/Kagawa/van Persie would be in that chance like him in first place, because they aren't that quick.
Nah, I get that. Thing is I'm not that surprised by his lack of impact as I think he is overrated here. Wasn't saying anyone was really blaming him for today (though their goal wasn't his greatest moment), more that I think we have way bigger issues than Welbeck right now.
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