Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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Lets sign Andy Carroll, get someone the wingers can cross to. He'd be a nuisance for defenders
He has great feet for a big man as well...
Ricky Lambert. 
That winger should be Matt Jarvis. We could justify it by showing a video of the couple of times he had a great game against us.
If it wasn't for his age, I think Ricky Lambert would be a decent signing.
No.
No.
He's still better than Ashley Young. I'd take Jarvis over Young any day. At least he runs forward with the ball.
I wouldn't go that far, but if I had to pick someone to play centre-forward just for a one-off game tomorrow then I would pick Lambert before Welbeck.
The cafe only allows criticism of one player at a time though, and at the moment it's Young. Everyone else is just brilliant.
Tonjo's post was a bad one, but the way we insist on pumping cross after cross into the box you'd think that we had a big target man in the box. It's West Ham's tactic for example. I'd love to see us create more chances using through balls and cut-backs and be less reliant on the crosses from the wings, because they're almost always ineffective as they invariably get cleared easily or go out of play. I think we have crossed more than any other team in the league but have we scored from one?
That had nothing to do with Welbeck btw, apologies.
That had nothing to do with Welbeck btw, apologies.
You seem determined to have a go at every aspect of Moyes management but do you honestly think that putting early crosses into the box is a) something we didn't do before and b) something we do more than any other club in the league?
Our over-reliance on Valencia and Young has been done to death but the pattern of play you would expect when they start is nothing we haven't seen throughout previous season. It's only 2 or 3 years back when Rooney seemed to score a header in every second game he played.
Where have I said it was Moyes fault? We did it under Fergie at times last season. We are just persisting with it but the majority of the crosses that do end up in the box get dealt with. I think I read somewhere that we had played the most crosses this season but they are largely ineffective. Fellaini in the box more would make sense if this is what we're going to continue with.
Fergie's approach during his last years, post Ronaldo, was idiosyncratic in many ways. We often started two traditional wingers AND two highly offensive, "modern" fullbacks. This could be deadly as a counter attacking set-up but it often made us look very stale and rigid when we had to create something from nothing ourselves. If you look at the method we often resorted to in isolation - push the ball wide and get a cross in - we could, in fact, have benefited from fielding some kind of target man in the box.
But you can't look at it in isolation, because the whole team wasn't actually set up to control a match throughout, creating from scratch most of the time, etc. It was set up to punish the opponent on the counter - requiring speed and a bit of flair, rather than some Lambert style big man up front.
Anyway, the key term as far as Fergie's system goes would be idiosyncratic. It worked for him, at least it worked most of the time and to a sufficient degree for us to win the league twice in his last three seasons. But it's not a system I would attempt to copy. I don't think Moyes wants to do that either, not long-term. He has in a sense fallen back on Fergie's approach for the toughest of our fixtures so far - and he has been shown the limitations of this approach as well, not least on Sunday. I think he will attempt to use the players we have differently. His version of United will end up looking more like the team we fielded against Leverkusen than the one he chose again City.
But you can't look at it in isolation, because the whole team wasn't actually set up to control a match throughout, creating from scratch most of the time, etc. It was set up to punish the opponent on the counter - requiring speed and a bit of flair, rather than some Lambert style big man up front.
Anyway, the key term as far as Fergie's system goes would be idiosyncratic. It worked for him, at least it worked most of the time and to a sufficient degree for us to win the league twice in his last three seasons. But it's not a system I would attempt to copy. I don't think Moyes wants to do that either, not long-term. He has in a sense fallen back on Fergie's approach for the toughest of our fixtures so far - and he has been shown the limitations of this approach as well, not least on Sunday. I think he will attempt to use the players we have differently. His version of United will end up looking more like the team we fielded against Leverkusen than the one he chose again City.
I certainly hope so!
That's a very interesting post. I can see what you mean 100%. All the sensationalist "debate" since Sunday has revolved around the demise of the empire. It may end up being a defining point for our new manager in a positive sense. His approach to date is understandable in the circumstances.
I thought it seemed silly at first but it looks like Evra's been told to whip them in early on a more regular basis and even Smalling's been doing the same. If he really sees this as a key weapon to have then it would explain why we he was so desperate for Baines. Although it's annoying we're going ahead with it regardless because Evra's a very mediocre crosser.
I wonder if the fact that were known for exciting wing play meant he felt a slight obligation to play that way? I've heard it said to him before, I even think Stuart Gardner mentioned its importance in the post match interview against Leverkusen. I thought Pienaar and Meirallas played more tucked in under Moyes?
Is our build up play too slow for this method of getting the ball wide and crossing into an inevitably crowded box?
Honestly haven't seen any evidence that this is the case. Not to an extent where it'a a noticeable change in approach compared to previous seasons.
We'll have looked a lot more threatening with Rafael/Jones crossing into the box instead of Smalling regardless.
I would say the answer to the last one is definitely yes. Which means that we should look to create chances from other types of play. The Fergie style set-up is effective when you hit 'em on the counter - that's what it's for, really. The other method, getting it wide and crossing it, is almost like treading water - biding your time, waiting for a new chance to actually let the system do what it is intended for.
I don't know if Moyes has felt obliged to use wingers in Fergie's tradition out of, let's say reverence - I think it's more likely that he has simply decided to stay with a system the players are familiar with for those tough fixtures. And on a similar note he has been using the players he felt would be most disciplined and defensively solid, not taking any chances of the sort many would have liked him to - such as gambling on a Kagawa or a Nani, who weren't quite ready (at least as he clearly has seen it).
Whatever his motives have been, I think he is now on a new page. And that should mean both different players and a different approach to using them.
Hehe, yeah. Gotta keep our chins up. No reason to burn the season ticket just yet.
Excellent performance. In the right place for the goal and diligently tracked runners on the left flank.
He's a reliable big game player for us, wherever we play him.
He's a reliable big game player for us, wherever we play him.
Took his goal well, but thought his all around game was not very good. Didn't hold the ball well, and was sloppy in possession. On that left side and with his pace he should really be the main outball.
Crazy to think he wasn't very good tonight. You clearly only watch what players do when they have the ball.. jesus, he was excellent
Excellent? You must have watched a different game. He scored a good goal, but when in possession, he was way too casual and sloppy. Yes, he worked well when not in possession and tracked back. But his main job is to create chances, keep the ball, bring others into play, explore space etc...
Works hard, if he doesn't have time to think about it, finishes well. Other than that, gives away possession, lacks consistency, misses easy balls and couldn't hit a barn door (if given time to think). Nothing changed and I don't think it will.
Took his goal well but wasn't one of his best games.
He works hard. Scored a goal. Doesn't create enough. Him and Valencia are our version of Milner.
I thought he was pretty good, he didn't create a whole lot but he was generally good in possession and tracked back extremely well. Tonight would've been the perfect game for him to play centrally, it's a shame he was forced out wide again.
Unequivocal proof he's going to be class.
Away at our toughest opponents in our group in Europe? It's more important for the team to be tight.
As well as scoring, his job was to offer an outlet for our midfield (which he did- his movement was very good), to keep the ball (which contrary to what you seem to think, he did well given the opposition), and to defend- if you watch him he slowed down their attacks with his defensive work time and time again- blocking the passing lanes, pressing the man on the ball and so on- often they got frustrated and played a long risky pass and lost the ball because he was aware of the out ball and blocked it off. Tactically he is well beyond his 22 years.
Get in Danny!
Sorry, versions.
Welbeck is quality. Good to see him adding goals to his game.
Sloppy in possession tonight? Now I've read everything.
Gave the ball away too frequently, for me he was poor tonight.
I love Danny but I don't think he played well tonight. He gave the ball away very cheaply at times, and he seemed a bit hesitant to drive forward with the ball which he's normally so good at. Great shift defensively though, as usual, he always gives his all.
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