Good post. Add to that the fact that in 11/12, Welbeck created an outstanding 80 chances.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
- Thread starter KM
- Start date
- Status
I appreciate your comments. I just don't see Welbeck changing from what he is now in any dramatic way. He might suddenly improve himself as a goalscorer/finisher but I'd personally doubt that. I see it much more likely he'll develop into a 'link man' type player. If he had the killer instinct I think we'd have seen it by now.
You can look at his goal record if you like and that'll tell you something but you only have to look and see how he plays to know he's simply not that (out and out striker/prolific) sort of player and in my view there'd have to be a hell of a dramatic turn around in his entire game to make him one. The discussion has been on the lines of his ability in front of goal. I don't think he misfires because he can't focus or he's too rash or any other hindrance you might expect someone with raw goalscoring ability to have to deal with when progressing as a player. I just don't think he'll ever be that type of player or that type of forward. The way he plays the game, how he plays the game etc. Nothing of that screams 20+ goals a season to me. It's not necessarily a slight. There are many top forwards who weren't terribly prolific but contribute in other ways
Some people think 23 is the new 17. Think of Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc at the age of 23. Sure they'd all improve as players but there was no dramatic re-awakening of a latent talent after that age. They got better at what it was they did. I think Welbeck will too but I don't think he'll be a player who scores more than about 7 goals in an average season and possibly 9 or 10 in a good one. It's not impossible but I can't see it.
Moyes on Welbeck...
yeah..but Moyes isn't going to say anything negative about him publicly is he. He's the new manager of a club that has supported this player. I'm not saying he doens't believe Welbeck is a good player, but the "add some goals" comment says it all really.
To be fair, no-one is mentioning today's game which is completely irrelevant to argue for anything. And only Lynk and Stickles are saying that he won't ever be a good striker. All other posters who are criticizing him (including me) are saying that he needs to start scoring in order to become a reliable option, be it as a striker or as a winger. 2 goals in a season are not enough for an attacking player at United. I personally believe that he'll improve a lot in scoring (though I doubt that he'll ever be a prolific goalscorer) but if in next two seasons he doesn't improve a lot that part of the game, then I doubt that his future is here.
Ah, I see the summer hasn't derailed the "Welbeck is shit" bandwagon of morons.
Strange, because to me the exact thing he has looked is an out and out striker.
He has never looked like a natural number 10 and before last season nobody would have suggested he become a winger, and even now the winger idea seems to have largely arisen by default due to him being written off as a number 9. Out of all positions the most natural one for Danny is an out and out striker, with his pace, strength and hold up play. He proved that in the 2011/12 season which you must have missed.
There were clear factors which disrupted his development last season, but he has previously shown he can play as a leading striker.
The more I see him, the more I think he's going to be one of those players who has a lot of talent but there's no position on the pitch where he really excels. David Luiz is another - you can tell he's unbelievable with the ball, but where is he actually top class?
When he plays as a striker he finds himself in dangerous positions far too often for him not to score a decent amount once he shakes off what looks at the moment like a classic striker's jinx. He is precisely what Moyes describes him as: An exciting player. He has all sorts of potential and as I like to say, worst case scenario with Danny is that he ends up a very handy squad player.
Danny watched Jelavic last season and thought missing a handful of chances would cement his place in the first team.
No need for concern, if he can finish under the pressure of the Champions League knockout stage at the Bernabeu, then he is worth a bit of perseverance.
He's been mainly deployed wide and probably needs a run as an out and out striker.
No need for concern, if he can finish under the pressure of the Champions League knockout stage at the Bernabeu, then he is worth a bit of perseverance.
He's been mainly deployed wide and probably needs a run as an out and out striker.
Not a bad shout, you can't play Danny as a striker when his finishing his so bad, and he isn't really a winger either.
I think he'll prove to be a very valuable, reliable and versatile squad player.
I think he's more suited to playing as the second striker than he is to leading the line. But I also think he's very capable playing from wide. Especially if we were to switch to a more fluid 4231 kind of style with wing-forwards as opposed to wide midfielders.
I'm struggling to understand what exactly you're claiming or arguing against. I don't think anyone expects Welbeck to be a 40 goal a season striker because his game is about far more than just putting the ball in the net. However he certainly has striking ability and he will all but certainly improve on that and improve his goal scoring rate. In his sole full season for United playing as a striker he scored 1 in 3. I'd be surprised if he didn't improve on that record and become a 1 in 2 striker or better in time. That isn't exactly an overly drastic transformation. It's a reasonable prediction.
I think he's more suited to playing as the second striker than he is to leading the line. But I also think he's very capable playing from wide. Especially if we were to switch to a more fluid 4231 kind of style with wing-forwards as opposed to wide midfielders.
I'm struggling to understand what exactly you're claiming or arguing against. I don't think anyone expects Welbeck to be a 40 goal a season striker because his game is about far more than just putting the ball in the net. However he certainly has striking ability and he will all but certainly improve on that and improve his goal scoring rate. In his sole full season for United playing as a striker he scored 1 in 3. I'd be surprised if he didn't improve on that record and become a 1 in 2 striker or better in time. That isn't exactly an overly drastic transformation. It's a reasonable prediction.
He'll be a lead the line striker, and he'll be a very good one. As long as the club have more patience than many of the people posting in here.
What is this based on?
There are many different types of forward. On what basis are you making this 'lead the line' forward on? Someone on the internet said he might not be so out of spite you say "he will".
My comments were taken deliberately out of context by someone who openly admitted he didn't even read more than the first four words of the post.
What I actually said was just a very mild comment about how I think he'll develop along the same lines as he has/is doing now. More a link up player rather than someone who'll suddenly turn prolific overnight. Suddenly that's outrageous because some people become tabloid journalists and only read the first few syllables of an argument.
Did I accidentally quote you and somehow make you think I was responding to you, or had read what you said?
He'll be a lead the line striker in my opinion, because I think he has the attributes to be. I've no idea what your opinion of him is, and less do I care.
That was me and I haven't taken anything you said out of context.
Do you see continual progress until he becomes a striker that either scores more or creates more? I don't think his critics are, for example. saying that he should be sold or something silly like that, but he really is a bit of a headless chicken in front of goal, no?
Bit late but didn't Lynk dismiss all the time when he was in the newbies?
How do you know you openly admit to not having read what I said.
The argument was about his goalscoring. I said it wouldn't necessarily improve greatly in that area. By 23 you get a feel as to where a player is going. After this they tend to improve in the areas they're best at. Welbeck's case it'll be his hold up/link up play. Now he MIGHT suddenly become a 20 goals a season guy but his game already makes that very unlikely. Unless there's a massive shift in how he approaches things I think he's much more likely to stay the same sort of player that he is rather than do a sudden about face and become the next RvN.
That's all I was saying. Your "Wow, I'm not going to go beyond this" or whatever it was after the first three or four words of the argument was taking what I said entirely out of context and encouraging others to do so too.
I think he'll improve his finishing. In fact, I'm sure he will. He already has good ability on the ball, a good touch, strength and pace. I reckon he'll grow into a very good lead the line striker, and a skillful one too.
He's already shown with England he can play that role effectively, so I've no doubt he can do it for us too. I think he sometimes gets anxious in front of goal, and strangely seems to be more anxious playing at club level than for England. Maybe the pressure of being a Manchester lad plays on him when he plays for United. I think he'll get over it though. He'll be a very good striker, and hopefully that happens at this club and not elsewhere.
Ruud van Nistelrooy, who had his first 20 goal season in his 5th season of first team football, at the age of?
Yep, 23.
Oh I think you are right about feeling pressure as a United player, I just can't see how he's gonna overcome it, because he's not in his teens any longer and I suspect his "growth spurt" has long passed. A striker really ought to be scoring goals and I think many of his goal efforts are quite franky appalling.
I also doubt Moyes will have as much patience or faith in him as SAF if he continues to play as he has been. No one doubts his skills, but while Chicharito is nowhere near Welbeck in that capacity, he knows how to score, and that's priceless.
He was always that sort of player. Welbeck is obviously a more defensive type forward. It's not just his goal scoring record but how he plays the damn game. He's a completely different type of player to most prolific goalscorers you'll ever see.
If this is up for debate then we may as well start questioning whether Rafael has pace or Carrick can pass because they seem to be the most obvious attributes of each player as is fact Welbeck is a more defensive forward.
I'd say a lot of it is mental at the moment. He's shown he can score between 15-20 goals a season already. Just needs to get over the hump and it should start to come naturally again.
It's you that took it out of context, not me. I didn't argue with anyone about goalscoring. I made a comment that I couldnt wait for him to prove people wrong (re his ability as a player). Then you started banging on about Ruud. I don't expect him to hit the heights Ruud did in terms goals. He's not that type of player. Never has been. Never will be. Ruud was about goals and goals only.
You immediately discredited your own argument with that absured comment that's so absurd I don't even need to quote it.
Spot on man.
He's shown for us already that he can lead the line, Rooney was playing off him in 11/12 and Welbeck looked excellent - the only thing he is lacking is consistency in front of goal, but I've got no doubt that will improve.
Was he indeed? Did you watch a lot of Ruud Van Nistelrooy at Den Bosch and Heerenveen to know this? Fact remains, until he turned 23 he'd never had a single season where he'd scored 20 plus goals at first team level, yet here you're holding him up as exactly the kind of player Welbeck will never be, because if he hasn't done it by 23 he never will.
Danny not scoring is disgraceful - everyone scores in Bangkok!
Defensive is a really weird way of describing it. He's hard-working, loves to press and is good at winning the ball high up the pitch. But I think his best assets are attacking - they just don't include goalscoring, at the moment. Dribbling, ball control, dynamism (even when the rest of the team is in 'zombie' mode), creativity and pace. If he was short, everyone would recognise him as an excellent, hard-working playmaking forward who needed to work on his poor finishing.
How has he shown that when he has scored 20 goals in the last 3 seasons combined?Apologies. I actually thought he'd scored more in the 11/12 season than he did. I still believe he has the ability to do it. I doubt he'll ever be prolific though.
Oh Danny boy
I have faith in Welbeck. All the tools of good striker are there. He just needs a 'breakthrough' game, like that Nani against Arsenal's.
Quite rusty was Danny yesterday
It's like he knew as soon as he was dragging his footback that his trick was fecked.
It's like he knew as soon as he was dragging his footback that his trick was fecked.
yeah..at least he laughed at himself with the crowd...great sport...
Nah, it's quite clear that a few posters are silly enough to read quite a bit into yesterday's performance, including that sensational simpleton Lynk who actually - I kid you not - bumped this mofo 45 minutes into pre-season. Shortly thereafter, the little runt, who in his desperation has become far and away the top poster in this thread, treated us to this golden nugget of logic:
A good time was had by all.
- Status