I know a few City fans who really rate Welbeck, and they're not into rating United players very much.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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He's waiting for someone else to offer themselves for a pass so he doesn't have to take on the sole responsibility.
I really do think it's a confidence thing, where he believes he needs to defer to his more senior teammates and put himself about for them to exploit the spaces he creates.
Once he grows a pair he'll be devastating.
This for me is where the problem is.
Firstly, I should say that he does need to add more goals, unquestionably. When you look at how man midfielders score at a far more regular rate than him it really isn't good enough.
That said, calling him a striker and in doing so judging him in that bracket is a little unfair in my opinion. When you see the average position, space and movement other strikers are afforded and then you compare their figures to his it's very unflattering.
It's like an opposite to the situation when Ronaldo was here and we marvelled at how many goals he scored as a "winger" when really he would come inside an attack centrally and his off the ball positioning was nothing like other wingers who are generally expected to hug the line.
In Welbecks case, he's the one that drops deep to hustle while RVP or Hernandez stay on the last mans shoulder. He's the one who goes wide and carries the ball forward before laying it off. He's very, very rarely the one who can attack the 6 yard box.
I think he will move further forward as the years go by and as Rooney moves back and their respective figures will switch.
Out of interest how often has Welbeck played up top as the main man with Rooney in behind him, that was something that flourished at times but I don't remember seeing that this season.
I think he is quality, funnily enough the main improvement he needs to make is to stop thinking when he's through on goal. Because he's such a smart football he tends to overthink it in the box and panic, needs to start going with his instinct and just hit it a bit earlier and more often. I'd be interested to see how many shots he averages per match compared to the other strikers.
I'd guess it's not many
You're spot on though, he is overthinking the shot and I can't understand why with all the coaching back up he hasn't just taken the shot
He's taken 36 shots this season, compared with 110 by RVP and 76 by Rooney, but I think that's misleading. He tends to prioritise looking for the pass rather than taking shots, so he usually ends up firing at goal only once he's in an impossible position and the 'keeper's already bearing down on him.
Hernandez, by contrast, has taken 33 shots and scored 8 goals (which is amazing) but he's clever enough to ensure that most of those were tap ins.
That's the point I'm trying to get at. He rarely takes shots and when he does its only usually because he has to. The biggest development we'll see in his game in when he starts to pick when to pass and when to shoot, too often he looks for the smart ball into feet rather than backing himself like he did at times last year. If he gets a bit more selfish he'll get more goals. I'd say its a much better problem to be this way round that Sturridge who you have to change pretty much the way he plays.
I'd imagine Danny's summer homework will be on getting early shots in and drills in situations where he could pass or shoot. It will help his thinking and make him stop trying to score the perfect goal.
I really think once he sorts this part of his game he's going to be a monster.
I don't think anyone is judging his productivity against the likes of Suarez or RVP. The fact is Welbeck should be contributing 10-15 a season through goals/assists (as an example: Cazorla 22 from 30, Walcott 22 from 25, Mata 24 from 27, Fellaini 16 from 25, Hazard 16 from 28, Podolski 17 from 26, Silva 13 from 25...)
None of those players play as striker and all would be looking to get a minimum of a goal or an assist every other game. Stats obviously don't show the whole picture but having the same productivity as Nani and Valencia, the former who has played 1/2 the games and has been terribly out of form and the latter who has been truly aweful and has played far more defensively is acceptable.
It's why I'd like to see him in central midfield.
I know his dad and he was telling me how their family have been trying to encourage him to be more aggressive. If he could get that into his game he could conceivably develop into something akin to a more technical Drogba (that's racist) or a harder working Zlatan (that's not racist).
Still so young .... g rowing up and improving literally every week. He is going to a world beater, at least at club level, by the time he is 23 and after that, we have many years of consistency to look forward to.
Just has one final piece to perfect which is finishing at the top level ... but that will come very soon. He is way advanced to the likes of Benzema, Ibra, Villa and Suarez at his age.
Just has one final piece to perfect which is finishing at the top level ... but that will come very soon. He is way advanced to the likes of Benzema, Ibra, Villa and Suarez at his age.
itk
That might be true if I actually knew anything. He's more of a passing acquaintance than anything.
Benzema was making a big impression in Europe at a younger age than Welbeck is now and had scored 30 goals for Lyon and was being compared to Fat Ronaldo. Ibrahimovic had 15 goals and 7 assists in 31 for Ajax before moving to Juve the season after and David Villa had scored over 20 goals for Zaragoza at the same age as Welbeck.
Yeah, but Welbeck has more goal than them all in the PL!
To be a bit more serious, I have really high hopes for Welbeck. He's improved a lot over the last few years, but I think there's still plenty to come. His overall game is excellent IMO. He wants to get the ball no matter where he is on the pitch and more often than not he does well with it - whether it's picking a pass or going around a player or two. The little flicks he does is what we often need to unlock opponents and he just needs to improve them a bit and get the other players in on it to make it really effective. The only (which admittedly is rather large) downside to his game at the moment is the lack of goals, but I'm certain that'll come. Otherwise we'll have to bring Ruud back to give him some more lessons!
Welbeck is a "young" 22.
I think in terms of the growing he's yet to do and his potential career-span thereafter, he ought to be compared to much younger players.
People put far too much stock into the number of someone's age imo. It's a reasonable predictor for a lot of things, but a couple of years here or there is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
I think in terms of the growing he's yet to do and his potential career-span thereafter, he ought to be compared to much younger players.
People put far too much stock into the number of someone's age imo. It's a reasonable predictor for a lot of things, but a couple of years here or there is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
One of my students is a huge Real Madrid fan, and he was blown away by Welbeck. Really rates him. The great thing is that we can afford to be patient with him. Welbeck in 4-5 years will be something else, in my opinion.
Too much Football Manager and FIFA means that people expect players to develop and grow at the rate that they do on the game.
Wrong goal, you're thinking of a 25 yard screamer (this happened) against Stoke which Scholesy the poster lambasted him for.
EDIT:Wrong again, it was against Wolves in the League Cup.
I remember the Stoke goal. Manucho's greatest moment in a United shirt, that, passing the ball to Danny
Sometimes players have all the ability in the world, but the goal scoring just 'clicks' late. Look at Van Persie, from the 04/05 season through the 09/10 season, he scored 20 goals in all competitions once. Other totals were 13, 11, 10, 10 and 9. Granted he was injured in two of them, he still wasn't prolific as a younger player but you always knew he was talented. Patience is key.
I think he's going to be an absolute beast and the goals will definitely click.. I'm scared of his potential, a definite world beater. Once his general play becomes effortless in his head, he will be able to concentrate on the finishing side of his game. Very high ceiling as a player as due to his physicality and technical ability, he can take games by the scruff of the neck and unlike Yaya.. he can do it over 90 minutes non stop. Goals and a killer instinct is all that is missing.
I've always rated him very highly, but in recent months when he's taken up that deeper position and helped disrupt the opposition play has just added yet another string to his bow. Fantastic talent, and the final ball will come in time, he's too good for it not too.
Benzema was all about his power. Suarez technical ability.
Personally I don't think technical strikers get an easy turkey shoot run at any stage in the Premier League. Even Suarez has shown he can be total mare at times as well as dribble past 8 players and scuff a strike into the bottom corner at others.
The Premier League for me is literally changing to a less speed and more technical league but it will never be one where players without the minimum pace requirements can just get by on technical ability. (Apart from deep lying playmakers such as Scholes, even Giggs still has bursts of speed)
Danny for me has all the technical aspects, the touch, the comfort with the ball at feet in tight situations. Still for me it is his movement on the ball at full throttle that is a problem. But how many strikers in world football do you go 'wow they have pace and dribbling ability..' I can think of two off the top of my head and scrap for maybe 4 or 5 more.
It still for me to get the best out of Welbeck is to play him on the shoulder and have a balanced midfield that is pushed up and supplying on a steady platform as well as having that hole player being free to keep the platform secure and feeding balls in. It's much like Hernandez. He really thrives off the ball from wide areas but you see very little of the ball being brought up from central midfield and played in behind on the edge of the area. 1on1's there have been a few such as over the top and diagonally. But I think Welbeck would thrive from that kind of service that Arsenal was giving RvP last year.
A player not as deep as Carrick but someone between Welbeck and Carrick to beat a man and bring it up and play a ball in behind to get him isolated on the edge of the area for a key pass or shot.
His development is purely education at this point which is why this thread gets a bit ludicrous at times with people barking 'HE NEEDS GOALS, GOTTA ADD GOALS'.
He just needs to keep playing in an advanced area and working as hard as he can the goals will come when he moves into that proper striker role on a consistent basis.
I agree, it's why I said I think he should definitely be scoring more. I think the best comparison role wise is Kuyt, while Welbeck has far more quality, Kuyt had the knack of putting the odd goal away.
The weird thing with Welbeck is that young strikers usually have a knack of putting the ball in the net and very little else to their game. He's the polar opposite. He has everything but that ability. Either way I still think he will be a brilliant player for us. The central midfield suggestion is interesting, not something I have thought about. I think he needs to work on shielding the ball and holding it up a bit more and his passing game isn't there yet.
Benzema was about much more than power, he looked like he could be the complete package as a centre forward, was being compared to Torres (2008 version) at the time as well.
Fair enough, but I think at the time in the French League his power was what was giving him an advantage. But that's just my opinion.
He sort of reminds me of Rooney. Burst onto the scene as explosive players. Both developed their passing games in a supporting role for Ronaldo. Both criticised for their national teams after being seen as the saviours of their national teams. Rooney has put a lot of criticisms to bed with his performances since but Benzema may need a move to solidify himself as a top forward.
That's where I tend to disagree. Van Persie was scoring once every 2.5 games between 21 and 23. Villa, Benzema and Ibra at the same age were scoring every other game and being the best players in their teams (albeit lesser teams than United). Suarez scored 49 goals and assisted 16 when he was 22 (again albeit in a lesser league).
Most players at 22 don't go from being unable to hit a barn door to being renowned goalscorers and most would agree that currently our defenders look more comfortable in front of goal than Welbeck. I genuinely can't remember ever seeing an attacking player whose scoring ratio is less than 1 in 5 in his early 20's suddenly become a 20+ goal a season striker (a figure which he will need to attain to ever be considered a first choice).
He definitely has quality and gives something different, but I just can't see it happening up front, at United anyway.
It's not something I ever thought about until the previous post.
I think he has a much higher chance of fine tuning his good qualities (qualities one would associate with a central midfielder): shielding, passing, tackling as well as stamina, positioning and possession in tight spaces etc than he has of going from very poor, to United quality up front.
Because of his (lack of) ability in front of goal I can't help but think that even if he vastly improves, he will never be good enough to be one of our main 2 strikers, who essentially have the burden of guaranteeing us 20-25 goals a season.
/edit: To clarify - my point is that I'd much prefer him using his qualities to develop into one of the first names on the team sheet (which I think he could do), rather than just becoming a 4th choice centre forward.
Benzema moved to that circus in Madrid way too soon and it definitely damaged him mentally.
He has that court case hanging over him for the last three years. I think the proceedings are still on going.
Started the game brightly, but then was poor after 20/25 minutes.
Such a frustrating player with his end product.
Such a frustrating player with his end product.
Putting Valencia on for him seems to be Sir Alex's go to sub of late, whether it makes sense or not.
Clearly wanted to play through the middle, his best moments came there tonight and he was largely anonymous out wide. To have him up top regularly though may mean Rooney in midfield long term
Noodle put it best earlier in the season in one of his weekend reviews;
Noodlehair said:
A Cafquote classic.
Oh and hate hate hate hate hate hate hate.
Was pretty pointless again today. Bringing on Val for him was pure comedy though.
I thought today was his first bad game for us in a while.
If he hadn't have gone down in the box I wouldn't have known he'd played.
Don't even think he was bad. He's always tiny on the ball. Thing is though, that apart from his Madrid goal he is a bit pointless this season. He's just not contributing to the important stuff enough. He's a striker so he needs to score. And even if he's played on the wing as he's been often this season he needs to contribute more to our goals than he has.
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