No, loan him to Reading, because we've got better centre forwards like Shinji Kagawa.
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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No, loan him to Reading, because we've got better centre forwards like Shinji Kagawa.
I don't know how you want to categorise him, but if we play 4-4-2 he plays as part of the front two. His position is broadly similar to Rooney's when VP, Hernandez or Welbeck are playing.
Fine, but when we play Kagawa we only use one striker, which leaves us with 3 players for one position.
I couldn't tell you. Please show me this quote in context.
The same reason you included Hernandez perhaps?
It doesn't leave us short of subs or rotation, if Rooney doesn't come back from his injury for some reason and Welbeck goes to reading we still have Hernandez, van Persie and Kagawa for two positions, if need be we could switch to a system with only one of them and push the wingers a bit further forward. We'd need a very severe injury crisis for us to be left short.
We're going to see Kagawa on the wing (or perhaps even as part of a midfield 2) more and more in this second half of the season. No way he's starting ahead of Rooney.
I guess it'd make sense in a way, however what happens if injuries decide to feck us up again?
And in a way I'd be sad for him as it'd represent a big step down for Welbeck compared to last year.
And in a way I'd be sad for him as it'd represent a big step down for Welbeck compared to last year.
I am not a big fan of Kie and he talks a lot of crap but I don't totally disagree with him in this instance. We have half a season of football and for four attacking positions the options without Welbeck are RVP, Rooney, Hernandez, Nani, Valencia, Young and Kagawa. He has RVP, Rooney, Hernandez and Kagawa ahead of him for the two striking positions (or one strike, one AM). On the wings he would have Nani, Valencia and Young ahead of him. It might not be a totally ridiculous idea to get him a loan for the rest of the season. I am not sure about Reading but getting him a good premier league team where he can get games week in and week out won't be a totally insane.
Danny is an excellent player but his finishing and composure inside the box needs improvement. This will come with regular game time, which he won't get at United. We can always have a return clause if we need to recall him in case of an injury crisis.
Danny is an excellent player but his finishing and composure inside the box needs improvement. This will come with regular game time, which he won't get at United. We can always have a return clause if we need to recall him in case of an injury crisis.
Not that I would loan Welbeck to Reading but..........Kagawa is best in a forward two as the no 10 or withdrawn striker. He can play behind RVP, Rooney or Hernandez in a front two.
How often has he been deployed this way so far?
How often.........?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...United-great-strikers--Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html
Only, in so much as to mention his limtation (In context)
On this we disagree, fundamentally. I won't repeat myself further.
I don't agree with Kie in his assessment of Welbeck at all, but I do see his point about Kagawa. Kagawa is at his best behind a striker, so instead of playing with 2 strikers, you play with one and Kagawa behind him. No, Kagawa isn't a striker by any means, but he takes the place of one (if played in his best position). This was the main reason I disagreed with the RvP signing this summer, it seemed pointless (I clearly got that wrong). At this point, with Rooney out and the worry of RvP reverting back to his injury prone self, loaning out Welbeck would be a huge mistake. Not to mention, as has already been stated in this thread, he isn't exactly lacking in game time anyway.
I'm pretty sure a squad such as the following:
De Gea
Lindegaard
Rafael
Evra
Buttner
Jones
Ferdinand
Smalling
Vidić
Evans
Valencia
Giggs
Scholes
Cleverley
Carrick
Nani
Valencia
Young
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Hernández
That's 22 players rotating (if you discount Anderson/Fletcher due to injuries). This allows at least 2-3 players for each position. The only time we'd actually require Welbeck would be if we had an injury, which is why you would have a recall clause.
If Fergie felt there was a potential big benefit to Welbeck playing every week I don't think it's a stretch to say he would allow it (although I believe it is unlikely).
De Gea
Lindegaard
Rafael
Evra
Buttner
Jones
Ferdinand
Smalling
Vidić
Evans
Valencia
Giggs
Scholes
Cleverley
Carrick
Nani
Valencia
Young
Kagawa
RVP
Rooney
Hernández
That's 22 players rotating (if you discount Anderson/Fletcher due to injuries). This allows at least 2-3 players for each position. The only time we'd actually require Welbeck would be if we had an injury, which is why you would have a recall clause.
If Fergie felt there was a potential big benefit to Welbeck playing every week I don't think it's a stretch to say he would allow it (although I believe it is unlikely).
Kagawa has played in the No. 10 position in most of his appearances so far by my recollection. Occasionally he's been deployed in a wider role or in a midfield two but it's been largely as a substitute, generally he's deputised for Rooney and there's no reason he can't continue to do that.
I had a look at that page for the quote you were talking about and I found something very interesting.
‘They’re two fantastic players and it’s great to have them both. What gives us even more strength are the combinations I have up front. If you go back to the 1999 season when I had Dwight and Andy, Teddy and Ole Gunnar, they were the four best strikers in Europe.
‘I think I’m getting towards that now. I’ve got Chicharito, Wayne, Robin, Danny Welbeck and Kagawa. It’s a fantastic collection of players — hopefully I pick the right combinations. It’s great to have a player of Van Persie’s quality come into the squad.
Reads to me like Ferguson sees Kagawa as one of his strikers.
I'm sure you could have found a way to discredit van Persie as well if you tried hard enough.
Kietotheworld is correct, Kagawa has largely played his football occupying a strikers role. Arguably his natural position and best role.
Not sure if this means Welbeck should go on loan though. I'd rather have him around, he'll be needed I'm sure.
Not sure if this means Welbeck should go on loan though. I'd rather have him around, he'll be needed I'm sure.
It would be an unusual time to loan Welbeck out considering his pedigree and stage of development, but it might not be the worst idea in the world. I'm not sure Reading is the best club for him but a run of games at CF in a struggling team would certainly improve his killer instinct around the box. Little things like following shots up are not natural for Welbeck at the moment. His main job at Reading would be score some fecking goals, fast
With Rooney injured and our wingers in poor form, it would be crazy to loan out Welbeck imo.
http://www.manutd.com/en/Fanzone/Ne...98481dc68544d34ba5ac7529ec7c022&_z=z&pageNo=2
“Van Persie’s arrival should give everyone a push,” Sir Alex told ManUtd.com. “Chicharito has done nothing wrong, while Welbeck is promising and has shown that with England. He's in the same position as Chicharito in that they’re not first-team choices at the moment.
“That doesn't mean to say it will stay that way, because competition is always healthy. Being the kind of young lads they are, they're desperate to establish themselves in our first-team. That's what competition is.
“We had it in 1999. It did a lot of good for Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke, because they knew Teddy Sheringham and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wanted to play. They did get a lot of football and I was able to change them around several times.”
“Van Persie’s arrival should give everyone a push,” Sir Alex told ManUtd.com. “Chicharito has done nothing wrong, while Welbeck is promising and has shown that with England. He's in the same position as Chicharito in that they’re not first-team choices at the moment.
“That doesn't mean to say it will stay that way, because competition is always healthy. Being the kind of young lads they are, they're desperate to establish themselves in our first-team. That's what competition is.
“We had it in 1999. It did a lot of good for Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke, because they knew Teddy Sheringham and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wanted to play. They did get a lot of football and I was able to change them around several times.”
I think Sheringham and Solskjaer were closer to Yorke and Cole than the current 3rd and 4th choice in quality, reliability and experience. The main thing they have in common is there's 4 of them. Yorke and Cole were at greater risk of being dropped for whatever reason than Rooney or RVP are.
I said the same thing at the time and to be far we were kind of right. As great as RVP is, his signing was always going to cause this problem. Five forwards into two positions is one too many. Something's got to give.
I don't want him to go out on loan and given the game time he's had, I don't think he'll want to either. This situation was inevitable though.
Tell you what, that doesn't half read like faint praise.
Going on loan would be a big step back. He needs to stay here and prove himself if he's going to be a long term mainstay of the squad imo.
He's had plenty of chances this season to play football, the issue is he's not taken them not that he's not had the opportunity.
He's had plenty of chances this season to play football, the issue is he's not taken them not that he's not had the opportunity.
Well in theory if you've done nothing wrong then you've done everything right, but whether Fergie has that sort of literary take on matters is another thing entirely 
Steady on, you were burying all of our forwards to try and make Welbeck look good, if you're going to say they're all either woeful, inconsistent, crocked or shit you should at least include the one who doesn't fit into any of those categories to show the options we've got.
What's your point here? Ferguson is bigging up his options, like he always does, nowhere does he say that 4 strikers are essential or anything like that, even if he did he probably considers that we've already got 5 considering we've 5 players for the No. 9 and No. 10 roles.
I highly doubt Welbeck will be going on loan, and especially to Reading. It's a bullshit story, as per usual. It would make absolutely no sense.
Well in theory if you've done nothing wrong then you've done everything right, but whether Fergie has that sort of literary take on matters is another thing entirely
Yeah, it's an ambiguous quote, to be fair. I just hope the boss won't be tempted to sell either player, mate.
Nah I doubt he will, especially Hernandez, he knows his worth to this team. I think he's the sort of poacher Fergie has missed since OGS left (obviously not of the same standard).
I'd say the only way either would leave is if they got fed up sitting on the bench and started asking to, which was always a risk when we decided to get both Kagawa and RvP.
This.
Rumor seems absolute shite to me.
Only club I wouldn't mind loaning him to for 6 months would be Spurs for example, a top team who need a striker and would offer him 1st team football. Good facilities also.
But loaning him out at all would be stupid. We need the squad depth, especially somebody as versatile as Welbeck.
Welbeck's not going anywhere anytime soon. At the very worst, he'll be the striker version of Wes Brown...
He's got far too much quality about him, and I'm sure Fergie see's that. Plus, he's English, and he's from Manchester... he's a great player to have and he'll play a big part in the second half of this season I reckon.
He's got far too much quality about him, and I'm sure Fergie see's that. Plus, he's English, and he's from Manchester... he's a great player to have and he'll play a big part in the second half of this season I reckon.
Nani - injured
Young - been injured
Valencia- woefully out of form
Rooney - injured and inconsistent
Hernandez - a poacher and less of a team influence
Kagawa - been injured and yet to shine
The list of players and their impact, Hernandez apart, shows exactly why we need Welbeck.
Does this support that accusation, KTTW? Anybody?
He is extolling the virtue of competition upfront.
He may even include Macheda and make it six, but Danny was played regularly last year and this year, which also shows his importance, in the manager's eyes.
It is a bit of a myth. Having four top strikers happened once, 15 years ago. I think we can move on from the theory that it's a necessary amount if you want success. It never lasts either, one will always leave because they'll be too good to bench warm.
I certainly wouldn't rule anything happening in football, but it would be downright strange if we sent Danny out on loan. He's getting games here and there and his recent form has been good, apart from his goalscoring. As said above, SAF obviously rates him. I think that he's going to be a brilliant player and striker, when everything starts to click into gear.
Probably, but then they had so much extra to offer as a duo that a lot of the times when it came to selecting the front two, you almost couldn't pick one without the other.
Also, Sheringham was also considered a bit of a lame duck at the time. He was better than that, of course, but his first season didn't end well and he had a lot of injuries in his second. He became a bit forgotten. Ole of course was a different story.
I'm hoping we manage to fit Welbeck in. When you look at how he performed in a pressure game like that Everton disaster, it's clear he can do the job in a run in. But obviously it depends on how we do in the Cup and the CL. If we've got mainly the league, it'll be hard to overlook RVP and Rooney time and again.
Berba-Rooney-Tevez-Ronaldo (If you'd class Ronaldo as a striker)
You're right, one may not be happy (Tevez on this occasion), but a young, club-product would be less likely, you'd hope.
First of all Welbeck is no competition to Rooney or van Persie and he never is going to be unless he develops and proves himself to be extremely good, or waits for them to become old and crap or leave the club - I'd prefer the former, but the only way I can see him developing is at another club with first team action, or by being picked over superior players at United. Second, as I've already explained we'd still have plenty of options upfront if he left.
Welbeck playing regularly last season showed his importance last season, but what's being advocated here is that we loan him out this season. This season he's obviously a lot less important to the team, you can see that by the fact the manager has been playing him out wide and dropping him to the bench for other players, and it's obvious anyway because of the acquisition of a No. 9 (or 9.5) and a No. 10 this summer to play in both of his central positions.
Very true, we struggled to keep 3 happy with Rooney, Berbatov and Tevez/Hernandez, not to mention Rossi.
Followed by Berba leaving when he wasn't getting the games. Three is enough in my opinion, anymore and it goes beyond a selection headache. Kagawa and Nani being injured most of the season has eased the problem to some extent, but when all fit, I don't think even a young, talented player would be happy with so few games.
We'd be very stupid to loan him out somewhere.
Even if he were to go on loan and become a regular goalscorer, he's still going to find himself in the same situation he's in currently next season, with Rooney and Van Persie ahead of him and playing whenever possible.
All we'd accomplish with a successful loan deal is unsettling Welbeck and making him ponder his options elsewhere where he could be a regular starter. Right now he seems okay with his role and theres no need to change that. Not to mention it's not like he's not getting game time and actually needs a loan move like Fabio.
Even if he were to go on loan and become a regular goalscorer, he's still going to find himself in the same situation he's in currently next season, with Rooney and Van Persie ahead of him and playing whenever possible.
All we'd accomplish with a successful loan deal is unsettling Welbeck and making him ponder his options elsewhere where he could be a regular starter. Right now he seems okay with his role and theres no need to change that. Not to mention it's not like he's not getting game time and actually needs a loan move like Fabio.
Hence, I never said that!
He has made 22 appearances this year.
If you say things don't get any better or worse, he would be needed a lot before the season ends. (Esp. if we go far in the cups)
When do you expect this to happen?
Edit: Berba was forced out. He never pushed for a move.
All you need is a fourth option, a winger who can do a job or an attacking midfielder. Or you could land lucky and have a fourth striker who's happy to spend most of his time on the bench. Given that player would still have to be quality I reckon he would be difficult to find.
Probably because Yorke and Cole were very good players, whereas Rooney and RVP are amongst the best to ever play for this football club. Signing the latter was always go to stall Danny's development for a couple of years, and it's no negative reflection on him as a young footballer in the least.
How do people think Neville would have fared if we'd signed Cafu in 1996?
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