If we're talking about goals then yes balotelli is better. How does that equate to being a better footballer?
Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances
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I think he was more in his locker in terms of set pieces, finishing, strength than Welbeck does.
Wasn't there a post in this thread that showed that is you discount penalties Welbeck and Balotelli's goals per minute records were materially the same?
Anyway, we know where this debate is going...
Anyway, we know where this debate is going...
Balotelli has never missed a penalty in his senior career as far as I remember. It's pretty daft to discount his penalties.
What about his red cards then? In forty-nine starts for Manchester City, Mario Balotelli has been sent off four times. Danny Welbeck has never been sent off.
In the same time Mario Balotelli has stormed off the pitch in a sulk and openly argued with his manager twelve times. Danny Welbeck has been nothing but a true professional.
Mario Balotelli has argued with and caused arguments between a number of his team mates on pitch on many occasions. Danny Welbeck has been a team player throughout his senior career.
If you're trying to tell me that Mario Balotelli is a better footballer than Danny Welbeck then you don't know shit about football, mate.
I never said Balotelli had the edge on temperament. Read the last page.
Welbeck has only taken one that I can remember at senior level and that was his debut in a friendly when he was 16/17- he missed it. Counting penalties as a sign that Balotelli is a better finisher isn't accurate. Striking a dead ball is a different skill to finishing during a match.
He's had some good finishes in open play before, and so has Welbeck. He's also missed some glorious chances before (the EMBARRASSING matrix moment at euro 2012 comes to mind), and so has Welbeck.
He's had some good finishes in open play before, and so has Welbeck. He's also missed some glorious chances before (the EMBARRASSING matrix moment at euro 2012 comes to mind), and so has Welbeck.
I'm not using penalties as a proof of finishing, but rather of composure. If both were bearing down on goal I'd back Balotelli to finish instead of Welbeck, mostly because he has better composure which aids his finishing. I'm never confident when Welbeck is one on one.
This isn't the Balotelli thread you gimps, we're not doing this again. You've all established your views and got nowhere on this debate before, just let it go. Thread's closed for the night.
Noob.
I've been wondering recently if, at least if we add another winger/wide forward to the squad, Welbeck would not benefit from another PL loan. He should get plenty of suitors, and right now his contribution up front for us will not be that greatly missed. He is more useful as a wide option at present, although even that may change when Nani returns.
Sunderland have been struggling for goals, he could maybe go back there.
Sunderland have been struggling for goals, he could maybe go back there.
Not for me. He needs to be amongst players of the quality he aspires to be, not looking a class above at Sunderland. Plus he's actually getting a decent amount of football with us, even if RVP's arrival has taken him out of the main striker slots. At this point, he just has to be patient. He's still young, and RVP is not. He's getting games, even if some of them are on the wing. He's not scoring at the moment but he's playing very well indeed.
He's 22 now I think, and the next two years are absolutely vital in terms of shaping the player he hopes to become I think. Yes, Persie is not 'old' now, but Welbeck wants to be ready for when he IS old, he doesn't want to still be trying to establish himself as a striker at 24/25.
Just a suggestion anyway, but if he isn't much further down the line in a few years, he could potentially find himself surplus to requirements with us. He needs to have clear daylight between himself and the likes of Henriquez and Will Keane by that time if he wants a future here. The fact is, given the level of influence van Persie has on our team, there is a good chance we would want to replace him with a player of similar quality by the time he goes, as losing what he gives us would severely weaken the team.
You don't think Welbeck's getting enough games to 'have clear daylight between himself and the likes of Henriquez and Will Keane'? How many first team games do you envision those two getting ahead of Welbeck?
'Establishing himself as a striker' at another club is just not worth much at this point in his career. He did that at Sunderland, he's proven he can do it. He's playing regularly enough for us at the moment that he'll do more for his development by staying here than by going to some mid-table team.
As for the last sentence: when RVP ages out, Welbeck will have played more than enough football to keep his development ticking along, but not enough to prove that he can be our main number nine. That's because there is simply no way to decisively prove that you can be the main man for a club like United without being given the chance to do so. So when RVP ceases to be first choice, Fergie will have to gamble on Welbeck based on what he's seen of him, and we'll know pretty soon whether or not he's up to the task.
But to ignore a perfectly good young player - who has never done much less than the best that could be expected given his limited opportunities - just because there's slightly less risk in spending a bomb to replace RVP with an established top striker from elsewhere is City territory, not United. If we don't, in those circumstances, give Welbeck that chance before buying the Falcao equivalent, then we lose all moral high-ground, and any claims at being a club that gives youth and local talent a chance go out the window.
Of course there is currently daylight between Welbeck and Keane/Henriquez, but those lines will become blurred once they all start playing Premier League football. They will simply be 'promising/developing strikers'. What Welbeck will need to have done by then is to have left that bracket of 'promising' and be 'developed', not to mention be developed to a good enough player to start regularly for us. If Henriquez scores 8 goals for Wigan in his loan spell, coupled with the fact that he is already a full international - I would say he would be closing on Welbeck at a good pace. Certainly over the space of 3 years, when RVP may begin to lose his powers, there is certainly enough time for Henriquez to outshine Danny.
As for what he established at Sunderland, I'd say not that much in the context of being a long-term United regular. He didn't perform like a 20 year old that we would try to sign if he wasn't connected to us.
I also would like to see us play youth wherever possible, but I reckon the chances are that a player who is in his mid-twenties and has played second (or third/fourth) fiddle to a world-class player for a few years is not the player you simply put in his place when he goes and expect him to be of a similar level. You get an up and coming player who is has been a regular somewhere.
Essentially, you don't replace a world-class player, your best player, with a substitute, whether that player was a substitute for your club or any other club. Even we didn't simply just put Solkjaer in the first team when Ruud left given he had been a good deputy for him. If he was good enough to replace him, he'd have been challenging harder for his place when he was here. My gut feeling is that failing a Prem loan that will see Welbeck start 25 league games a season, he will never be a player capable of replacing van Persie. To be honest, my gut feeling is that he won't be as good as Persie regardless of how many games he plays, but he'll certainly not get to that sort of level performing an O'Shea-esque role.
He's obviously very low down in the pecking order up front, that's common knowledge. I'm just afraid how low down he's in the pecking order.
He's barely seen any action up front this season, and even in the festive period I don't think he actually started a game up front?
Great reading of the game (as well as a blunder in Wigan's defence) to set up RVP's second yesterday. I just hope he starts in the FA Cup on Saturday to get at least some game time up front.
He's barely seen any action up front this season, and even in the festive period I don't think he actually started a game up front?
Great reading of the game (as well as a blunder in Wigan's defence) to set up RVP's second yesterday. I just hope he starts in the FA Cup on Saturday to get at least some game time up front.
Don't think this will be a popular opinion, but would love to loan him to a PL club, this is the time IMO. I know a lot will disagree but he would see regular game action at most clubs now, its only for our exceptional array of attacking talent that means in truth Welbeck atm does not get a look in.
It's only the beginning of January, there are plenty of games left and he'll start more in the second half of season obviously. I can see us using him against weaker teams at home both to rest van Persie/Rooney and give Welbeck an opportunity to score and build up his confidence.
He'll most likely feature heavily in our (hopefully long!!!!) FA cup run as well.
Apart from one all of 5 days ago?
I do worry about folk on this forum sometimes...
Jesus Christ. For one, I've actually stated in the majority of my posts that I've been away during the festive break and I've actually missed all of the matches since the 20th. Secondly, notice the word "THINK".
"Worry about folk". Jesus wept.
"Worry about folk". Jesus wept.
Yes, that was meant to be taken seriously, as obviously I use the word "folk" in my every day life... being a cowboy and all, not to mention the actual notion of worrying about people on a football forum being pretty absurd in itself.
Having said that, it was a game we played 5 days ago. It's not exactly difficult to find out what the starting line-up was. Especially if you've missed all the matches since the 20th... you'd think you might want to look it up to see what you missed? In fact, if you have missed all the matches, why make such a comment when you surely don't know who has or hasn't been playing in any of these games?! Seems a bit pointless...
Having said that, it was a game we played 5 days ago. It's not exactly difficult to find out what the starting line-up was. Especially if you've missed all the matches since the 20th... you'd think you might want to look it up to see what you missed? In fact, if you have missed all the matches, why make such a comment when you surely don't know who has or hasn't been playing in any of these games?! Seems a bit pointless...
I didn't state it as a fact, hence the word think. I did check the teams on the day they came out, but I didn't remember then since I have more important things to remember like the work for my exams.
Apologies if I upset you. It's just too bad that you didn't actually want to comment on the whole purpose of my post, and just wanted to point out a tinny-tiny flaw in it. Nice one
Apologies if I upset you. It's just too bad that you didn't actually want to comment on the whole purpose of my post, and just wanted to point out a tinny-tiny flaw in it. Nice one
I don't agree with the sending him on loan idea, he's fourth choice and can also play on either wing if needed. With Rooney currently injured he's third choice and the only striking option we have on the bench with RVP and Hernandez playing together. Would you prefer we had Macheda coming off the bench or Welbeck?
He'll get plenty of playing time, I'm sure of that.
He'll get plenty of playing time, I'm sure of that.
Can't see him being sent on loan. He is past that point in his career now. The problem he has right now is that he isn't doing anything to justify playing him over any of our other strikers. You can't exactly say he hasn't been given chances either as he started up front just recently and comes off the bench fairly regularly as well (admittedly for a winger a lot of the time). He just hasn't seized those chances this season unlike Hernandez.
Welbeck really needs a goal I feel right now. He just doesn't look like a major threat upfront right now and this is likely down to confidence as much as anything.
Welbeck really needs a goal I feel right now. He just doesn't look like a major threat upfront right now and this is likely down to confidence as much as anything.
Sending him on loan? Wtf? It's not like he is being frozen out ffs. He started up front a few days ago and will so vs West Ham. Also is 3rd choice striker at the moment with Rooney's injury.
Some people should think first before they type.
Some people should think first before they type.
Hope Welbeck plays the No.9 role against West Ham. I'd like to see him play alone up there and load up behind him.
His interplay and one-touch can be wonderful to watch and if Kagawa plays too, should be fun to watch.
His interplay and one-touch can be wonderful to watch and if Kagawa plays too, should be fun to watch.
Drama Queen overreaction of the year thus far. Silly bitch!
Lee Bowyer
I'm not opposed to him going on loan, but it's not going to happen.
He's not going to get games up front with the form RVP, Hernandez and Rooney are in and he's not going to force himself in in the wide areas over Nani, Young, Kagawa (I assume he'll play off the left when back) and Valencia.
But where could he go that would be beneficial for him? Tottenham could be an option as they need a striker, but he'll be out of the team quickly if he can't get goals and that will knock his confidence. Arsenal too need a striker, and if Henry does go there on loan the chance for Welbeck to learn from him is drool worthy, but it would hurt Wenger's pride too much to entertain the idea. Everton are a possibility as well, I guess, but something tells me thats also unlikely.
Any lower than that and there's nothing to be learnt, I don't think, so I can't see it happening. Tbh, I think Fergie prefers the idea of Welbeck as 4th choice and not getting many games over having Macheda (?) 4th choice and Welbeck getting games on loan.
He's not going to get games up front with the form RVP, Hernandez and Rooney are in and he's not going to force himself in in the wide areas over Nani, Young, Kagawa (I assume he'll play off the left when back) and Valencia.
But where could he go that would be beneficial for him? Tottenham could be an option as they need a striker, but he'll be out of the team quickly if he can't get goals and that will knock his confidence. Arsenal too need a striker, and if Henry does go there on loan the chance for Welbeck to learn from him is drool worthy, but it would hurt Wenger's pride too much to entertain the idea. Everton are a possibility as well, I guess, but something tells me thats also unlikely.
Any lower than that and there's nothing to be learnt, I don't think, so I can't see it happening. Tbh, I think Fergie prefers the idea of Welbeck as 4th choice and not getting many games over having Macheda (?) 4th choice and Welbeck getting games on loan.
To have a player like Welbeck as 4th choice just speaks volumes of the quality we have.
He might not be free-scoring, but when you need someone who can hold onto the ball or chase down the opposition, he's quality. Against City we could've gone either way (with him or Hernandez), he chases down a ball which looked safe for City and the rest is history.
He seems a good lad, but I hope he can stay patient whilst being given limited chances up front. For me, he plays a lot better when we have the little technicians around him...I think he'd play a lot better with Nani in the team as well as Kagawa and Cleverley. His quick 1-2's are a huge asset for such a big lad.
If he can come off the bench and knock in a few chances, he'll go back to being Welbeck the hero. As you've seen with our strikers, the power shifts with form and those who take their chances. Hernandez took his chances in his first season and eventually became just as, if not more important than Berbatov. Then Welbeck came back last summer and took the place from both Berbatov and Hernandez by putting in some very impressive displays even whilst he wasn't scoring. Now we've had Berbatov leave and both Hernandez and Welbeck playing second fiddle (or coming in for an injured Wayne Rooney) to RvP (who literally hasn't had a bad game).
He's one of our own at the end of the day, he's done very well to get this far and I'm confident he'll go further.
He might not be free-scoring, but when you need someone who can hold onto the ball or chase down the opposition, he's quality. Against City we could've gone either way (with him or Hernandez), he chases down a ball which looked safe for City and the rest is history.
He seems a good lad, but I hope he can stay patient whilst being given limited chances up front. For me, he plays a lot better when we have the little technicians around him...I think he'd play a lot better with Nani in the team as well as Kagawa and Cleverley. His quick 1-2's are a huge asset for such a big lad.
If he can come off the bench and knock in a few chances, he'll go back to being Welbeck the hero. As you've seen with our strikers, the power shifts with form and those who take their chances. Hernandez took his chances in his first season and eventually became just as, if not more important than Berbatov. Then Welbeck came back last summer and took the place from both Berbatov and Hernandez by putting in some very impressive displays even whilst he wasn't scoring. Now we've had Berbatov leave and both Hernandez and Welbeck playing second fiddle (or coming in for an injured Wayne Rooney) to RvP (who literally hasn't had a bad game).
He's one of our own at the end of the day, he's done very well to get this far and I'm confident he'll go further.
I know that this sounds like a broken record, but he does have a lot of time on his side. I just hope that he's going to be ready when the likes of RVP and Rooney's influence on the team starts to decrease. I have little doubt that he will be ready, as he's a hard working lad, with a lot going for him.
SAF obviously thinks a lot of him too. So much that he have him his chances over a player like Berbatov last season. Even though he wasn't a prolific goal scorer, he still contributed a great amount and gained a lot of valuable experience.
SAF obviously thinks a lot of him too. So much that he have him his chances over a player like Berbatov last season. Even though he wasn't a prolific goal scorer, he still contributed a great amount and gained a lot of valuable experience.
The only thing Danny Welbeck really needs to improve is his composure in front of goal. His touch, dribbling, passing and general play are already very good its simply his shooting he has to work on and as we saw with Ronaldo that can be improved with time, practice and hard work. Once Welbeck perfects the art of hitting the ball hard, low and accurately he could be the next Dwight Yorke.
I watched the 2011/12 season review today. It hit home how important he was to our first team last season, it must be difficult for him to now be down in the pecking order despite not doing a lot wrong.
People quite rightly say that he is below v.Persie, Rooney and Hernandez in the pecking order, but I'm not sure if he is also behind Kagawa as well. I'm still unsure on Kagawa's permanent position here.
I wouldn't say loan him out or anything like that, but we may be looking at making left wing his new position, at least for now, to get him some much needed game time for the meanwhile.
I wouldn't want to drop any of v.Persie, Rooney, Hernandez or Kagawa for Welbeck to be honest, but I could see Welbeck giving Ashley Young some decent competition.
People quite rightly say that he is below v.Persie, Rooney and Hernandez in the pecking order, but I'm not sure if he is also behind Kagawa as well. I'm still unsure on Kagawa's permanent position here.
I wouldn't say loan him out or anything like that, but we may be looking at making left wing his new position, at least for now, to get him some much needed game time for the meanwhile.
I wouldn't want to drop any of v.Persie, Rooney, Hernandez or Kagawa for Welbeck to be honest, but I could see Welbeck giving Ashley Young some decent competition.
What always particularly amazes me are his possession stats. For a striker, especially one who dribbles and takes people on, he almost never loses the ball. He often rivals midfielders like Carrick and Cleverley for passing %.
I also love the consistency with which, when chasing down a defender or a goalie, he succeeds in winning the ball. I think it's down to his long legs. He's able to get a foot around in front of the player he's chasing much more quickly than others can, and it seems to take defenders by surprise.
I also love the consistency with which, when chasing down a defender or a goalie, he succeeds in winning the ball. I think it's down to his long legs. He's able to get a foot around in front of the player he's chasing much more quickly than others can, and it seems to take defenders by surprise.
I reckon he's still growing and filling up? He could be an absolute beast in about a year.
He mightn't lose the ball that much in passing but he frequently loses it when one of his dribbles turns into something like this
That is a funny gif but you're still a fecking idiot
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