You're missing the point of his post entirely, and your retort is simply to argue over semantics.
Danny Rose | Rose: "I will play up North before I retire"
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You're missing the point of his post entirely, and your retort is simply to argue over semantics.
Give me the weekend and on Monday I'll find and quote some of your posts
It's all building to awkward situation though, surely you can see that?
You had 2 incredible athletic full backs, best combo in England by far, arguably one of the best in Europe, which i'm sure you used to boast about.
All of a sudden, it's like you don't mind Walker being off, as if Trippier is now some sort of better player.
Dier and Rose both clearly want out, way too much noise in the media from the former, and the latter's position is pretty obvious.
Add in that you're in a very difficult position of how to improve the squad. You tried a squad player with Sissoko, that didn't work, and now know that any starter is going to be huge money, unless you think you'll magic another Alli from somewhere.
With the stadium draining a lot of money, star players suddenly cottoning onto how much money is available elsewhere, if you don't make a last step of progress this year, it's inevitable players will look to move on.
Kane strikes me as a fairly laid back, dopey kind of guy who has pretty limited ambitions bar personal goal tally, and is happy where he is however the team are doing.
Alli on the other hand, I'd say it's fairly certain he'd want to take a step up if he thinks his ambitions aren't being matched.
Don't forget, that all of a sudden, the Europa isn't that important, now Tottenham have had their year or 2 in the champions league! And all that original Tottenham stuff about how football is about "winning trophies" and it's "pathetic" to target top 4...well that suddenly has changed too!
I haven't said that Trippier is a better RB than Walker. I've said that Walker is better overall, but Trippier is better in some respects (and worse in others) and the difference has become quite marginal because the latter has developed well under Pochettino. And so, for £50m, I don't especially mind Walker leaving. I imagine that we'll put the cash to good use before the window closes.
Dier does not want out - and the only "evidence" to the contrary is the usual media guff. And actually Rose, whilst complaining, specifically said that he wasn't asking to leave. Of course if an offer came in to double his wages from a northern club, then I'm sure he'd would leave if Spurs OK'd the deal, But we won't ... so his only option is to knuckle down and do his best, particularly if he wants to nail down a WC slot next summer.
Our star players have known about higher wages elsewhere for a long time - it hasn't suddenly become known in the last few months. But most of them still signed new contracts with Spurs in the last year or so. Of course soon we need to be able to make improved offers to them, which is where the income from our new stadium will come into play. And yes, we also need to start winning some trophies.
Just because Sissoko was a poor signing for the money, doesn't mean that the next squad player we sign is bound to be equally poor - and that's what we're looking for, not ready-made first XI players because we don't really need them and can't afford them anyway.
Is Davies as close to Rose as Tripper is to Walker, in terms of capability?
No - the gap is wider.
If it were up to you, what kind of offer would tempt you to sell Rose to Utd, as things currently stand?
In what respects is Trippier better than Walker?
Genuinely curious. Seen nothing to suggest he's anywhere near the same level.
Presumably you would be looking for couple of players of whom possess the ability to represent a Spurs team that just so happens to be one of the best in the country. No second rate mug's then.
Problem with that is, why would any high standard footballer even entertain the idea of joining a club who pay criminally low wages, flat out refuse to grant their players a release in their contracts and, worse still, if said player chooses to leave the club, the destination would be limited to clubs who play outside of England because Levy holds a grudge.
As far as I can tell, Spurs have literally no pulling power.
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I wouldn't even take a phone call concerning any offer. We need Rose this season. Selling one first XI RB is quite enough, especially since the gap between Rose and Davies (who is decent enough) is a fair bit wider IMO than between Walker and Trippier.
The stadium finance is all in place and we have enough spare money - what with our summer sales and all - to be able to make 2 or 3 additions to the squad. So we don't need the money that could be gained by selling Rose.
Next summer is a different matter - I'd say it depends a lot on how much Rose rehabilitates himself between now and then.
I think his crossing is more accurate. Walker however is physically on another level.
I don't agree that we pay "criminally low" wages: we have the 6th largest wage bill in the Prem ... and pay out around 46% more in wages than the 7th ranked club, Everton. Moreover, all of the players who've signed for us are earning a great deal more than they were previously ... and several of them have had substantial pay rises on an almost annual basis.
You ask, why would any "high standard footballer even entertain the idea of joining [Spurs]"? Well, I guess you could try asking Wanyama, or Dier or Alli or anyone of a number of other players who now feature in our first XI.
And IF we sign Barkley, then you could also ask him. But perhaps he's just a "2nd rate mug" in your eyes ... in which case I guess you won't be putting your question to him.
Quite honestly, your claim that Spurs have "no pulling power" is laughable, belied by bucket-loads of readily available and obvious evidence.
We pay more out on wages than Everton
You may as well close this thread after that..
You may as well close this thread after that..
His crossing is a lot more accurate: I think it's a fair bet that he'll end this season with more assists than Walker.
He also gets caught out of position less than Walker, but then Walker can rely on his pace to try and recover, tho' not always successfully.
You're right about Walker's physicality: he's bigger, stronger, more athletic and more energetic than Trippier, though perhaps with less of a football brain.
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Well, if Spurs pay out "criminally low" wages. What hyperbolic superlative would you like to apply to Everton, or West Ham? "Scum of the earth wages" perhaps ... or is that too mild?
As for Stoke City, it's best we don't even go there lest we descend into outright depravity.
Ultimately, however, we get it: United are (almost) king of the wages table and so ought, by any decent rights, be able to take away any Spurs player they want (and it seems they want a lot of them) and something is not quite right - I just can't quite put my finger on it - when it turns out that actually they can't.
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Spurs players are equal or at a higher level than most of the other top 5 sides. West Ham and Stoke players are not.
Well, then perhaps you should be asking why these other 5 clubs shell out so much in wages, rather than deploring Spurs for paying out less.
why have a dog and bark your self?
You find em and train em up and we'll come take em off your hands. Keep paying low wages because Rose is just the start. Just like i told you weeks n weeks ago.
Here shep.... Good boy!
Agree with this. Kane looks like a one-club man to me. Alli should be monitored very closely over the next 12-18 months, would be perfect for us.
That would be such a bad deal for them, specially with an injury prone player involved. They'd be dumb to consider it.
I think it's clear Glaston has no understanding of what playing at the highest level is.
Jesus wept.
But I'm sure there will be Chelsea and Man Utd players also earning less than certain players at West Ham. Aren't they supposed to be paying Hernandez 140k/ week? That's not a small amount.
However, on average, we pay much more than these clubs. If you want to do that kind of comparison, there will always be a player that earns more than you. I'm sure Ronaldo seems himself as the best player in the world, why is he being paid less than Messi, Tevez, Neymar etc etc?
maybe he's talking about highest level in geographical terms?
I think it's clear Glaston has no understanding of what playing at the highest level is.
Jesus wept.
maybe build a new stadium in the Pennines?
See, again, this is the kind of hyperbolic stuff I struggle to get my head around.
We have literally no pulling power?
A club that offers the 12th highest wages in the world, plays in the most watched league in the world, is currently playing in the CL, are in London and has a pretty clear reputation for developing young players and improving them (with quite a few of those players going on to move to superstar clubs in the past 10 years)....and we have no pulling power? People have taken this wages thing and blown it massively out of proportion. You have people who genuinely think we pay midtable wages.
Unless you mean we have no pulling power to the very top players, which is obviously true and I don't think is a topic that even needs to be talked about, such is its self-evidence.
Maybe he meant North Korea?
So is the number 4 to the question "what is 2 + 2"
Not sure what your expecting.
You are literally in denial and are hoping for a different answer to the physical reality.
Well, I mean it really depends on where you take your figures from doesn't it?
If for example, you were to go 11 years back, we had a revenue that stood at 44% of Man Utd's, 61% of Arsenal's and 61% of Liverpool's.
Now the figures are as you said above. In the meantime, Man Utd have acquired owners who for all their faults are excellent at exploiting commercial markets, Arsenal have moved into a new stadium and Liverpool have expanded theirs. We meanwhile have continued to play at WHL and have not enjoyed the persistent CL qualification of Arsenal or even Liverpool until recently.
I agree it will be a difficult job and making the club more professional (which includes things like the training ground and stadium, both of which before were not fit for purpose) is a part of that.
I also agree we made a huge mess of the 90s and early 00s especially. Man did the club fall then. To go from one of the big 5 to...what we became was pretty shit. Its also been pretty galling to go in 1990 from the same number of trophies as Arsenal (16, with Chelsea all the way back on 3) to being eclipsed by both.
Anyway, back on topic. I'm not anywhere near as convinved as some other Spurs fans that we've seen the last of Rose but, for multiple reasons, I imagine there's a good chance he'll be moving on in the next summer or two. So I'd ramp up efforts to sign Sessengon, even if he spends that time back on loan at Fulham.
In terms of top wages, I don't think we can still match the wages those two offers. Liverpool had Suarez on 200k per week and Arsenal are supposed to be offering Sanchez 300k/ week, neither of which we really come close to.
I think after bonuses etc Kane and lloris re supposed to be on 130-150k a week, something like that.
In terms of overall wage bill, we're still a little behind unfortunately.
(Rough figures)
Spurs 120M
Liverpool 166M
Arsenal 200M
Chelsea 218M
Man Utd 220M
Man City 225M
Hopefully the stadium will eventually push us closer to Liverpool and Arsenal in terms of our wage bill and make us more competitive in general. That's the hope anyway!
I miss read the thread title as "I play up North or I retire".
Sure they can look but they also know they won't get same wages anywhere.
You said it yourself, Glaston, 6th highest wage bill in the prem. Now that would be acceptable had Spurs not finished 3rd (with a great chance of winning it) and 2nd in the prem for the last 2 years. The Spurs first eleven is one of the very best the prem has to offer, on par with Chelsea I would say, so why does their wage bill not reflect that? Don't give me the old "we just paid out for a new stadium" malarky, the players couldn't care less about that, you know it deep down. They wan't paying a salary reflecting their ability, evidence to this fact can be seen in Danny Rose's recent comments in the press, or Toby Alderweild refusing to accept a sub-par contract, or even Kyle Walker, sure an argument could be made that he left after falling out with Poch, but even you have stated that he left for the money. Spurs have been getting away with underpaying their players for to long, and although I disagree with the manner in which he presented it, Danny Rose's outburst was long overdue. Word it however you like, in whatever way makes you feel comfortable, but please don't deny the fact that Spurs underpay their players.
Wanyama worked out great but before he was signed, very few thought he good enough to represent the best team in England. Dier and Alli were practically unheard of before Spurs signed them. None of the 3 you mention would be considered high standard footballers before they were signed by Spurs. Which brings me to my next point.
Ross Barkely - good player, bags of potential, was once considered a future England star. Once upon a time. As of this moment, none of the other top 6 clubs are even remotely interested in in him because he has failed to kick on from that early form, his future as a possible England great is under threat due to this. That Spurs are the only top6 club wishing to sign him is a sign in itself. They simply are not capable of signing anything better.
In summary - In order to remain competitive and suitably challenged with worthy reinforcements, Spurs need to sign top players. Second rate pruchases/bargain hunting for that diamond in the rough simply won't cut it anymore. Plus they need to pay their current personnel a salary befitting their ability. Spurs, specifically Levy, needs to get his finger out before it falls down around him.
Precisely what I meant.
See the post above for a more in-depth reply. I Don't mean to be rude, just hadn't seen your post until afterwards.
No of course, its not rude.
What I would say to that is that there is nothing we can do about it really. We have the 6th highest wage bill, the 6th highest turnover. In terms of world football, again we have approx 11th-13th highest turnover and 12th or so highest wage bill.
We pay what we can relative to what we earn.
Unless we get bought out by a rich man who wants to pump his own money into the club, we can no more pay Kane, Alli, Eriksen 300k/ week and Rose and Alderweirald 150/200k a week than can West Ham or Stoke. We'd all fold, even if we do earn more than those clubs. Its 'unfortunate' in a sense that, unlike those clubs, we have, through good management, managed to assemble a starting eleven all of whom could conceivably be earning 100K plus at other clubs.
Again, its not us being stingy. I also live within my means and don't go out trying to get a mortgage for 30 million pound penthouse or a super yacht (unfortunately).
Incidentally, I found this rather funny Poch quote from the press conference when he was talking (and rather adeptly imo) defusing the whole situation:
"If you remember, five years ago, people said ‘who is Pochettino?’. I’m sure they used Google or Yahoo to find out.
But the problem with that was that all they saw straight away was the penalty against Michael Owen. That situation killed me"
Which made me chuckle I have to say.
This is precisely what was said last summer and the summer before that, but events showed it not to be true: Spurs improved the following season in both cases.
Moreover, it begs the question as to the definition of a 'top player'. For instance, United sign di Maria for megabucks. Spurs sign Dele Ali for peanuts - which of these two proved to be a top player in the Prem?
The reason why some United fans are obsessed with the wages Spurs pay - and endlessly predict imminent doom because of it - is because what's been happening with Spurs flies in the face of their favourite narrative, namely that United are the wealthiest club in the Prem in terms of income. Thus it irks such fans no end that despite this (a) United haven't been able to sign any Spurs players; and (b) we have the better team.
Concerning Barkely, IF we sign him it will won't be because we're "not capable" of signing anyone better, it will be because we don't need to sign anyone better .... because we already have a strong first XI.
Your sneering view of Spurs and the "practically unheard of" players we've signed - in contrast to the "top players" you think we should be signing - speaks volumes about what has been going wrong at United for some years now. But I'm more than content to let Spurs continue down the path that has seen us sign the likes of Danny Rose for £1m, whilst United throw mega-bucks in terms of both fee and wages at Luke Shaw.
Not a single Spurs fan objects to the point that soon we need to start paying higher wages. And we all know that the new stadium is key to this. But without borrowing even more money, we can't pay higher wages right now. Your advised policy - pay more wages - would simply plunge the club into huge debt, so forgive me if I and other Spurs fans see your advice for the short-sighted nonsense that it actually is.
Would many Spurs players like to earn more? Of course. Do they care about the stadium debt? Probably not. Are Spurs about to implode - with a mass exodus of star players - as a result? Dream on.
I'm really having difficulty understanding what exactly it is your getting at? We can't afford to pay the wages that United, City et all pay, why is that so hard to understand? It's not even up for discussion.
You then say something else that is a bit strange in that we should only be signing established stars, we have never done that we sign who we feel can develop into a better player than we initially bought. You then say that the players we have should simply move on because they could get more elsewhere, when most of our players back when we signed them you would probably say "they would never be good enough for United"? By the way we haven't had 2 second place finishes.
We have had Walker sold due to wanting more money and the club let him go for a price. Then apparently Dier was mad for a move to United, no transfer request, no public statement, nothing. Now Rose making a statement to the Sun, not saying he wanted a move right now, then making an apology afterwards.
When a player signs for Tottenham they know there are bigger clubs, and some may see us as a stepping stone. If that's the case don't sign a 5 year contract, don't embarrass yourself when your asked to honour it. That's the biggest problem these days in football. I have no problem with a player saying "I only want a 2-3 year deal" there wage and bonuses would reflect it.
I honestly don't get the hate on here for how we conduct ourselves, why we don't really get a pay on the back saying as a club your doing well with what you have. It's the tribalistic bullshit of it, "I can't wait to see them ripped apart" that's quite strange for me. It's not like we're gonna come anywhere near the size of United for the foreseeable future. Instead of wanting another team to die out would you not rather see your own club improve? Because honestly the oil clubs aren't going anywhere. Honestly looking forward to this next season and we can see where all the clubs are.
Ha ha, you're so proud of this aren't you?! Every player has a price, and regardless of what you believe if United really wanted a Spurs player, and the player wanted the move too then it would happen...albeit it at a huge price to compensate Spurs for selling to a rival.
From a personal perspective I understand that fully. I think what has ignited this thread is a certain poster's refusal to even consider the possibility that this might lead to problems for Spurs to hang on to their best players, particularly if another season goes by without any silverware. Because of that the argument becomes polarised and perhaps gives the impression that we United fans care about the situation at Spurs more than we actually do.
Spurs are just a club like any other, and in a way are victims of their own relative success in recent seasons. If they don't pay the market rate that their league position demands, and especially if they aren't actually winning any trophies, then their top players will start to consider their positions...as evidenced by the Danny Rose debacle. It is exactly the same for any club outside of the top few biggest/richest clubs in the world - and certainly not something I take any pleasure in. The reason that this thread is 24 pages long is because one of your fans refuses to accept that this could even be a possibility, and it's like debating with a brick wall.
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