I hope this is sarcasm.
Dan "The Gardener" Ashworth Has Left | Venit, vidit, non vicit
- Thread starter Berbaclass
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I hope this is sarcasm.
It's only the hacks that have mentioned Southgate.
James Ducker is a hack now?
As I've said I never bought that he was a serious contender for the job but somebody at United was keeping his name in the frame and it just so happens to be that two of his good friends are at the club. One that worked and hired him at the FA.
What's the excuse?And the excuses start already
I’m sure there are lot of media reported on this, posted in this thread itself. Also the Athletic reported ashworth preferring English managers like Howe and potter if not Southgate over Amorim.
Athletic didn't mention Southgate or at the very least the most reliable reporters there didn't. Grafton who gets loads of behind the scenes stuff reported he had never heard that name.
It's not. He's had some good scoops lately. He was the first one on us doing research on coaches and speaking to potential replacements the week before we sacked ten Hag.
Sounds like he was not all that and got found out. No bite, not even much of a bark
Well said
Yeh let Arsenal have him, so if mikel pulis gets sacked, they can go through the Southgate anxiety
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He is Tier 3. His scoops are other people's stories with added padding.
They didn't care about the optics by pricing out children and seniors too.
The rumours at the time were that SJR himself fancied going all British. Now it’s all being thrown at Ashworth’s door
"Shit happens in business"? That's the best justification you can think of?
And no, I'm not arguing that he should be retained. If it's come to this, then it's come to this. I've not seen many arguing otherwise either. My point is simply that it doesn't reflect well on the club's leadership and their judgment in making hirings for top positions, and people here who treats it like it's some sort of unforeseeable calamity that has descended from above IMO aren't thinking this through. And ruthlessness is generally only a useful thing if it's exercised with good judgment.
Like you I believe the Southgate thing was put out there to deflect.
They really didn’t need to do anything other than say that regrettably both parties has different ideas about how to move forward and so it was felt that making an early break was for the best, allowing both sides to move on
Henry Winter to get Dan Ashworth’s exclusive side of the story, I’ll wager.
Any reason why you choose some rumours to believe but dismiss others out of hand?
Wether Ashworth had influence or not at that point is moot. He was outed as backing Ten Hag alongside Brailsford in the Emergency meeting before THE emergency meeting.
Agree with you on this regarding the interview and owning the Ten Hag decision. We are Manchester United, this garden leave folly is ridiculous, sod them was probably what he wanted from his directors.
I don't think anyone has said that Ashworth was "close" to Ten Hag. That's just manipulating a point to make a counterpoint in my opinion no offence. For what it's worth I don't think anybody had anything to do with the Southgate rumours except frustrated Journalists who cannot get a sniff on things at the club.
This shortlist thing. Having the list wasn't the issue. The issue here is that Ratcliffe literally identified one major problem that needed to be tackled. Ashworths had five months at the helm and has let things tick over with no improvements where needed and zero commitment to streamlining anything. Ratcliffe asked what Ashworth had for him, Ashworth responded that he needed to outsource data analysis (best in class operator with worldwide sources is what a director of football should be not this shite the FA concocted) wasn't good enough so asked for some suggestions and he came up with 3 safe names and 1 absolutely ridiculous one in Graham Potter who spent a majority of his training holidays with the Chelsea Squad paint balling etc to "build the team". This squad walks all over or strops with every manager he suggested in my opinion and I am sorry but this part isn't good enough, worth a sacking on its own.
The transfer window I agree to some extent. We needed a striker, centre mid and left back as an absolute priority. I think it's worked out alright for depth and what Amorim is doing at the moment to get the squad up to speed, but in my opinion there were major positions needed filling before we looked at rotation. As you say everyone would have signed off on that. It's a major part of how Ashworths system works but then as we are talking about accountability, in that system the DOF is too protected.
With the Southgate stuff i doubt it's anything more than lazy journalism tbh.
No one's quoted any sources. Juat Ashworth worked with England + Southgate resigned = easy romouring.
And if Radcliffe wanted him and calls veto on such things we'd have hired him, so that's even more obvious nonsense.
No one's quoted any sources. Juat Ashworth worked with England + Southgate resigned = easy romouring.
And if Radcliffe wanted him and calls veto on such things we'd have hired him, so that's even more obvious nonsense.
Well the initial rumours about SJR were about how he was interested in a British core, and specific interest in Southgate. This stemmed before Ashworth even began with United. It’s now a changed narrative that it’s all on Ashworth. I believe the truth is in the middle.
One could also be suspicious about cutting him whilst he is within probation period, and hence more money saving for that magical 1.5m they appear to need before year end
I’m all in on that rumour. I think I might have started it!
Great post.
He'll need to come out of Rashy's ass first
Let's say that Ashworth is such an idiot that he wanted to spend 100m on jarrad and hire Southgate. Who made his recruitment interview? Who hired the man? Why is that director not sacked yet?
Because he is the owner and can't sack himself?
What is with £1.5m? Heard couple of times. What about it?
Would be surprised. There will undoubtedly be a disparagement clause in the settlement. Not sure DA wants to go to court against SJR
SJR said it multiple times that he doesn't take football decisions while the glazers would have stuck to Woodward's pet if they could
Ashworth was brought in by Brailsford
Yes, they are friends. I bet SJR is not happy with Brailsford too
This mistake costed us millions and made the club look silly at a time when we are firing good people, letting SAF go and grinching Christmas
Now I can't criticise Ineos ruthless approach when I've been advocating such approach for years. Else I would be a hypocrite. However the same can be said about Ineos If they are ruthless in terms of sacking people then surely they can't keep the guy who hired Ashworth in the job. I mean to sack someone after 5 months after previously waiting 5 months for him (and paying 3m in compensation) is terrible. Ashworth must have really been a bad fit from almost day 1 for Ineos to take such decision
I don’t think they understood his skillset or what they really needed before hiring. It’s a prime example of bad recruitment
Berrarda and Ashworth were "club hires" it would have been full board sign off.
The thing is, Ashworth comes with a reputation, we didn't make that reputation up it existed with a body of work. I don't think enough was maybe scrutinised but ultimately regardless it is Ashworth and Ashworth alone at fault in this case.
Your boss tells the world your data analysis is "stone age" and in 5 months he hasn't even looked at improving it preferring to outsource the job of hunting for a new manager. He needed to be sacked, doesn't match the ownership or CEOs ambitions its as simple as that.
How could sjr not understand how football roles work and what personal was needed considering he already owns 2 other clubs?
I keep seeing Howe’s name mentioned but for some reason I thought Ashworth and Howe (sort of) didn’t get along that well as Howe wanted too much control over transfers? Maybe I’m imagining reading such a story on here back in the day!
It's as simple as someone can be a good player, manager, director for one club and bad for another. It's not straightforward, people don't always align on strategies. There are multiple strategies and paths toward success, but the most important factor is all the main people who are in charge are agreed on the path they should be following. So the manager, the sporting and technical directors, the people in charge of recruitment and the CEO have to be aligned with the general path.
If Ashworth wasn't aligned and pulling in the same direction, then he had to go quite simply. And you'll keep needing to chop and change until we have everyone going down the same path. It might be something that people were aligned at the beginning but once they got in, had a different mindset. That happens all the time. I'm glad we are acting quickly to get rid and adjust rather than stick with something because it looks bad.
If Ashworth wasn't aligned and pulling in the same direction, then he had to go quite simply. And you'll keep needing to chop and change until we have everyone going down the same path. It might be something that people were aligned at the beginning but once they got in, had a different mindset. That happens all the time. I'm glad we are acting quickly to get rid and adjust rather than stick with something because it looks bad.
I saw some SJR quotes yesterday where he mentioned that they have made a couple mistakes in the process. It seems like they did not need Ashworth. When INEOS took over, they probably thought, lets get a best in class, CEO, Technical Director, Sporting Director.
They then waited for 2 of them and in the interim for the summer window hired 2 temporary execs. Now, once Berrada started, as a new CEO you want to show your status and position, same as sporting director. This is the issue when you hire too many new Execs at once.
It is also reported that SJR and Ashworth didnt get alone from day 1, compounded with the Ten Hag stuff, decided he wasn't best fit.
It happens, as long as they learn from the mistakes, I rather them fix a mistake than try sugar coat it.
Aye, I can't see how it COULD be the same. No manager is a blank slate who can do whatever Ashworth tells him, all managers are different with their own biases etc and it would be impossible for the style of play to remain the same. As you say though, the principles ought to be the same and we should always strive for a certain style.
Yeah, even when that was first reported I was questionable on how feasible it actually is. I get not wanting to do the entire "rip up the squad any time a new manager comes in" but at the same time it's very possible to not have to do that while still giving flexibility on different formations etc. just throuh recruiting the righ types of players. A Lenny Yoro can play in any system, so can a Caicedo or a top level forward. What you want to avoid is spending big money on a player that strictly only fits a specific system, not only because that's a poor decision in squad building but also because if there's ever a need to switch systems you now have a black hole of 50m+ that you need to get rid of most likely.
The United board is made up of the following people. Avram Glazer, Joel Glazer, Kevin Glazer, Bryan Glazer, Darcie Glazer, Edward Glazer, John Reece, Rob Nevin, Robert Leitao, John Hooks and Omar Berrada. At that time Berrada wasn't yet hired and his job was being done by Blanc. I had been following Blanc since his Juventus time and I assure you that he's a financial guy. He was also based in France (INEOS and previously PSG) so I very much doubt that he knew who Newcastle's Sporting director was and what he did there and at Brighton. Thus unless you think that the likes of Darcie, Avram, Kevin and him could take such informed decision then such decision was done by someone else. Brailsford is a long term friend of Ashworth and is described as a person who knows everyone in British sports. This is confirmed by Ashworth himself
""I've known Sir Dave for a number of years, working across various different sports and he is without doubt the best in world sport at creating high-performance culture and turning that into winning," said Ashworth after inviting him to speak to his Newcastle squad last season". So let's accept that the guy was a Brailsford's signing.
But what's a sporting director? He sits at the top of the football pyramid and he make sure that all departments work efficiently both as a unit and together. This is therefore an extremely important role. Ashworth was meant to be prohibitively expensive as well. He was at Newcastle after all ie a club that doesn't need money. Yet no one seem to have bothered to ask Ashworth what was his plans were if he took the job, the timelines, who would hire as manager if the current manager is sacked (ETH wasn't doing well) etc. SJR was so unprepared about this signing that he was completely blindsided by the term 'Gardening leave'. I don't blame SJR for that since that term is only common in certain niche industries (including football). SJR is not a football person. But surely someone somewhere should have told him about it so he could at least weight whether its worth going through the Ashworth route or not.
The club had fecked up spectacularly football wise, financially and in terms of PR which is a problem at a club were ticket prices are being raised and employees + a legend had been shown the door. Everything is pointing at Brailsford. Now INEOS keeps talking about hiring the best in class and about being ruthless. Yet Brailsford is still in the job and he's essentially a washed up bicycle man playing football manager.
Anyone think we had too many cooks?
Berrada seems to have had a big role in hiring the manager so he obviously wants to make football decisions. We had Wilcox, ashworth, berrada, vivell, and the ineos guys in brailsford and blanc as well as Jim himself. Do these guys all input on new manager and, god forbid, signings?
If ashworth wanted things that the club did not, like Southgate say, then best to cut ties. But I want to know who does that top football job now. Is berrada qualified to do that job? Usually you separate the CEO and football director. Is Wilcox? He was academy director formerly. Are the ineos guys? Obviously not.
It seems incredible to appoint ashworth and not back him - begs the question do we need someone in the role at all? And if not then what was all that bluster about for years about structure?
Berrada seems to have had a big role in hiring the manager so he obviously wants to make football decisions. We had Wilcox, ashworth, berrada, vivell, and the ineos guys in brailsford and blanc as well as Jim himself. Do these guys all input on new manager and, god forbid, signings?
If ashworth wanted things that the club did not, like Southgate say, then best to cut ties. But I want to know who does that top football job now. Is berrada qualified to do that job? Usually you separate the CEO and football director. Is Wilcox? He was academy director formerly. Are the ineos guys? Obviously not.
It seems incredible to appoint ashworth and not back him - begs the question do we need someone in the role at all? And if not then what was all that bluster about for years about structure?