alexthelion
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He may have said that but it's patently untrue.SJR said it multiple times that he doesn't take football decisions
He may have said that but it's patently untrue.SJR said it multiple times that he doesn't take football decisions
Berrarda and Ashworth were "club hires" it would have been full board sign off.
The thing is, Ashworth comes with a reputation, we didn't make that reputation up it existed with a body of work. I don't think enough was maybe scrutinised but ultimately regardless it is Ashworth and Ashworth alone at fault in this case.
Your boss tells the world your data analysis is "stone age" and in 5 months he hasn't even looked at improving it preferring to outsource the job of hunting for a new manager. He needed to be sacked, doesn't match the ownership or CEOs ambitions its as simple as that.
He was not good at what Ratcliffe wanted from him. He's apparently very good at what he's known for i.e what Murtough was doing. So it's simply a case of INEOS hiring him to do something he's never really done.Sounds like he was not all that and got found out. No bite, not even much of a bark
The United board is made up of the following people. Avram Glazer, Joel Glazer, Kevin Glazer, Bryan Glazer, Darcie Glazer, Edward Glazer, John Reece, Rob Nevin, Robert Leitao, John Hooks and Omar Berrada. At that time Berrada wasn't yet hired and his job was being done by Blanc. I had been following Blanc since his Juventus time and I assure you that he's a financial guy. He was also based in France (INEOS and previously PSG) so I very much doubt that he knew who Newcastle's Sporting director was and what he did there and at Brighton. Thus unless you think that the likes of Darcie, Avram, Kevin and him could take such informed decision then such decision was done by someone else. Brailsford is a long term friend of Ashworth and is described as a person who knows everyone in British sports. This is confirmed by Ashworth himself
""I've known Sir Dave for a number of years, working across various different sports and he is without doubt the best in world sport at creating high-performance culture and turning that into winning," said Ashworth after inviting him to speak to his Newcastle squad last season". So let's accept that the guy was a Brailsford's signing.
But what's a sporting director? He sits at the top of the football pyramid and he make sure that all departments work efficiently both as a unit and together. This is therefore an extremely important role. Ashworth was meant to be prohibitively expensive as well. He was at Newcastle after all ie a club that doesn't need money. Yet no one seem to have bothered to ask Ashworth what was his plans were if he took the job, the timelines, who would hire as manager if the current manager is sacked (ETH wasn't doing well) etc. SJR was so unprepared about this signing that he was completely blindsided by the term 'Gardening leave'. I don't blame SJR for that since that term is only common in certain niche industries (including football). SJR is not a football person. But surely someone somewhere should have told him about it so he could at least weight whether its worth going through the Ashworth route or not.
The club had fecked up spectacularly football wise, financially and in terms of PR which is a problem at a club were ticket prices are being raised and employees + a legend had been shown the door. Everything is pointing at Brailsford. Now INEOS keeps talking about hiring the best in class and about being ruthless. Yet Brailsford is still in the job and he's essentially a washed up bicycle man playing football manager.
I saw some SJR quotes yesterday where he mentioned that they have made a couple mistakes in the process. It seems like they did not need Ashworth. When INEOS took over, they probably thought, lets get a best in class, CEO, Technical Director, Sporting Director.
They then waited for 2 of them and in the interim for the summer window hired 2 temporary execs. Now, once Berrada started, as a new CEO you want to show your status and position, same as sporting director. This is the issue when you hire too many new Execs at once.
It is also reported that SJR and Ashworth didnt get alone from day 1, compounded with the Ten Hag stuff, decided he wasn't best fit.
It happens, as long as they learn from the mistakes, I rather them fix a mistake than try sugar coat it.
He was not good at what Ratcliffe wanted from him. He's apparently very good at what he's known for i.e what Murtough was doing. So it's simply a case of INEOS hiring him to do something he's never really done.
In reality it'll probably be Vivell. It was curious him appearing. Berrada power play?I've had this thought too. Probably also because they think there's a very realistic chance of getting Pep next season? But it's a very long shot and very very harsh and unfair on Amorim and why I think it's not going to happen.
Will be interesting to see who we go for next. This firing just 5 months into his tenure after such a publicized chasing of him for 6 months is not a good look for the club at all. And to think I put so much trust into this so called new leadership team. What an utter shambles.
First of all, I am not sure that any debate is worth having, you seem unable to veer away from your Bias. That's fine but would like to cover the points you bring up here.
Jean-Claud Blanc - Thanks for filling me in on information only you could possibly know via your extensive scouting of his role. I mean f me.
With regards to the board, I think you may actually be massively mistaken here. Our CEO before Berrarda was Richard Arnold. When he left he was replaced by Patrick Stewart. Both of them were on the board back then for a start. Also the current board structure may have been different then, you could probably fact check me with the wayback machine but honestly the point is moot wether you got your facts right or not (you didn't based on Arnold and Stewart alone).
Anyway, Blanc. Regardless of your thoughts on if Blanc is strictly only a money man or not. He was a very visible part of that 3 man group of Brailsford, Blanc and Ratcliffe, he absolutely did know Ashworth probably even interviewed him and you can argue till you are blue in the face on that. But there is plenty of photographic evidence suggesting they did business as a trio before they had there executives.
But we can't sack Blanc cause you enjoy the view from his backside, Brailsford the twat though he needs to go...anyway...
...Interviews happened. This got taken to the board and the board voted on it. No sole man is responsible for the hire, but I will tell you who is responsible for his firing
Dan Ashworth.
Even if you subscribe to the Greg Wallace impersonator hiring Ashworth off his own back you are avoiding one very simple fact.
If you are hired to do a job and you don't do that job in line with your reputation then you ain't good enough. If your boss tells you that the club's data analysis needs a total overhaul, you don't use said data AT ALL, you fire rehire and streamline. What Ashworth did was keep those things ticking over in the stone age. When your boss says to you, I need you to get me a manager and you are a director at Manchester United you need to show ambition, you also don't tell the boss that wanted you to overhaul the data department that you don't have sufficient data analysis you need to outsource. He failed at multiple parts of his job role and wasn't showing the ambition to change. He also expressed a wantaway attitude which won't get you anywhere in the business world. When your boss says to you listen I want you to talk to Ruben Amorim before City poach him, you don't say you have no connections in Portugal. This guy best in class huh?
Dean Ashworth is good at the job description that he invented for the FA coaching course to bring through technical directors which tells you everything you need to know about his talents.
Even if Dave Brailsford was the only and sole reason that Ashworth was put forward for the position at Manchester United. He had a reputation as a top top guy, and he wasn't it in there eyes that does not mean that it was Dave Brailsfords fault. If Ashworth wasn't happy he should have spoke up, he was happy to take the pay day and simply not doing the work.
Last thing and I will leave you alone...
I have to jump on the ticket price rise. Have you seen the price of hospitality tickets ie tickets for non members to guarantee a seat, they can sell above £150. Do you think Touts grab them?
The process is something like this:
-percentage after season ticket for members
-percentage after season tickets and members for non members ie hospitality.
-members tickets sell out within 30 minutes.
-non members tickets generally don't.
-after a time, and leading up to the game any remaining hospitality tickets are offered to members at member rates generally around 5% remaining attendance which is a couple of thousand.
-now I reiterate which tickets do touts pick up to sell on at the ground and make big money off. Bear in mind ANYBODY can be a member.
-regardless of the tout point, which is always a factor because of tourist culture and Old Trafford, ticket prices are not being raised, we get less of a discount on the hospitality seats remaining.
-up until very recently I don't think the club had raised prices in years.
-it's not just us doing this with hospitality tickets. Liverpool and Manchester City were also named in the story and had protests.
Ultimately Ashworth paid for the inexperience of Ratcliffe, Brailsford and Blanc who are use to the continental school of Director of Football, as opposed to Dan Ashworths FA version of the role which has it's uses in rebuilding smaller clubs when the pieces aren't in place in my opinion. Whereas we had fingers in pies and positions in post that formed a structure already and there was already interconnectivity of game model etc just the wrong guy for the job and probably not ambitious enough for Ratcliffes liking.
The structure is still there, Ashworths responsibilities will be picked up by the remaining cooksAnyone think we had too many cooks?
Berrada seems to have had a big role in hiring the manager so he obviously wants to make football decisions. We had Wilcox, ashworth, berrada, vivell, and the ineos guys in brailsford and blanc as well as Jim himself. Do these guys all input on new manager and, god forbid, signings?
If ashworth wanted things that the club did not, like Southgate say, then best to cut ties. But I want to know who does that top football job now. Is berrada qualified to do that job? Usually you separate the CEO and football director. Is Wilcox? He was academy director formerly. Are the ineos guys? Obviously not.
It seems incredible to appoint ashworth and not back him - begs the question do we need someone in the role at all? And if not then what was all that bluster about for years about structure?
We’re getting it in the neck from everyone but remember how we laughed at Chelsea and Boehly a few years ago and now they’re seemingly on the right track.
In hindsight, Ashworth’s role seemed the most vague and being described as essentially a conduit for everything at football club level and board level, especially compared to Berrada who is an executive familar with football club activities and Wilcox who specialises in player development and identification. The only way Ashworth’s role in that instance could work was if he was highly experienced and the CEO and technical director were inexperienced.
I’m not sure Ashworth would have been courting Southgate as manager, but I can see him courting the likes of Potter, McKenna, O’Neil etc. I get the feeling he wasn’t as dynamic as we were expecting him to be.
Anything can be ridiculed if taken out of context. For example hiring Potter as a Manchester United manager will sound ridiculous. However what if I told you that we're mid way into the season, very few top managers would want to take the job at this point, the squad is what it is and lack the energy and the IQ to change system mid way and we should therefore go for someone who knows the EPL game, won't cost us alot and can stir the ship to safety till the end of the season? That's a solution that even Amorim himself would have wished for us to take. The guy didn't want to join now but next summer. He was basically not given a choice on the matter.
The board of directors list is of public knowledge and can be fount on the official website. INEOS are represented by two people John Reece (minority shareholder in INEOS) and Rob Nevin. I think that we can all agree that such board has no clue about football and would be dependent on others to take the football decisions.
The closest football person in that board was Jean Claude Blanc who became interim CEO in late April and he remained in the post till July.
https://ir.manutd.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx
https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2024/former-ceo-of-psg-becomes-interim-boss-at-manchester-united/#:~:text=Jean-Claude Blanc the former,stepped down from the role.
He worked at Juventus and PSG. Yet Blanc is, by nature, a financial guy. A Harvard business school graduate, Blanc did wonders financially wherever he went. For example he was the brains behind Juventus building the stadium while at the aftermath of the calciopoli scandal that saw Juve losing most of its players, its sponsors and getting itself relegated. He then moved to PSG. Thanks to Blanc the club became a global brand, leveraging the allure of Paris to attract high-profile collaborations, including partnerships with the Jordan brand. Hollywood superstars adorned PSG shirts under Blanc's astute management, elevating the club's soft power and marketability. The guy is a serious man, who did far bigger things from a financial viewpoint then all our CEOs post Edwards did but he's no football person which is why United did well for going for Berrada. On top of that he was based in France and Italy. I don't think he's got great links in the UK.
So the decision in bringing Ashworth in falls on Brailsford. The two worked together prior to the INEOS-Manutd acquisition.In fact Brailsford was invited to Newcastle FC to make a speech to their squad. Dan describe their relationship as the following “I’ve known Sir Dave for a number of years, working across various different sports and he is without doubt the best in world sport at creating high-performance culture and turning that into winning. “There were some brilliant messages for us all and it was great to get him in at this point of pre-season.”
I am not here to judge Ashworth's talent as SD. In my opinion he's a decent SD and as said previously most of his advice was top notch. I won't go in that in this post as its out of this post's scope. What I want to focus on is the total ignorance around this deal
A- SJR was completely shocked at the concept of gardening leave. Yet that's the norm especially when the SD you'll taking comes from a rival club who certainly does not need your money
B- SJR failed to understand Ashworth's set of skills. The guy is an overseer of sort. His job is to hire the right people and make different departments work together. He's neither a recruitment person nor a data analyst
C- No one bothered to ask Ashworth basic things like who would he replace ETH with if the latter get sacked and what were the processes he would take if that had to happen. That's amazing considering that INEOS are trigger happy, ETH wasn't their man, he wasn't doing well and Ashworth HAD NEVER SACKED A MANAGER.
These are the sort of things the owner should be kept updated upon and the basic questions to ask during a recruitment interview for an SD role. Yet somehow they fall down the cracks which should to be big as a pit. So in my opinion, Ashworth's job was a job for the boys given to him by Brailsford with probably no recruitment interview in place. That in itself is already outrageous considering that the top of the football pyramid was chosen by someone who had ZERO football knowledge but it becomes way worse when you consider that this had already happened before. Brailsford was the man who appointed Iain Moody which lead to a series of washed up players from the EPL in a league that shit WC talent left right and center. The situation was so silly that Nice FC manager of the time didn't even how old Barkley was and his role in the team. Can you see the link here? EPL proven, chaos, anything.....?
INEOS are stressing on a ruthless, high performance based system. People need to be highly specialized in their job, waste is being cut down, there's little space for mistakes and no room for respect or empathy. That's lethal on many levels as people are being hurt from the average fan to the United employee right to SAF of all people. However one can label that as a necessary evil considering that United are a shambles financially, infrastructure wise (OT and Carrington) and in terms of squad. Which makes it even more baffling that we still employ a person who has no football skills whatsoever, who had messed up at Nice and who had messed up at United costing INEOS time and money. He's also described as an fitness guru yet our squad is possibly the most lethargic in the EPL and his marginal gains theory had failed at NICE and is currently failing at United as well (we haven't had a horrific start like that since the 80s). The sword should be cutting both ways. It had hit fans, employees, Ashworth and even SAF. Yet somehow it never touches Brailsford
The guy wasn't even here for a year. There was simply no time for him to fail in any goals set to him by the club. It's evident that we hired a the person with the wrong skillset for the job. Time and time again Ashworth was being asked to show skills HR never had (ex data analysis skills and player/manager recruitment skills), and getting frustrated at things that were the norm in the industry when hiring a sporting director who's currently in a job (gardening leave). I worked in HR and from my POV it's a recruitment problem. Considering how much it costed us in terms of money, time and image I am baffled that the guy in question wasn't escorted outYeah, maybe on another topic you might be a bit more receptive, but it's clear on this one you are only here to repeat talking points with no reasonable willingness to take anything on board.
For the record I am aware of what is CURRENTLY public knowledge, as I say, the board AT THE TIME you stated was different, that is not public knowledge.
Ashworth wasn't good enough or ambitious enough to be the Director of Football at Manchester United, he clearly did not perform at the standard his reputation and interview gave the impression he would. Happens in business and work in general quite often in the real world.
Nice chat. Brailsford can't touch you anymore don't worry.
So am I, but Whether he's aligned with the general strategy should surely be something that is discoverable during the recruitment process?It's as simple as someone can be a good player, manager, director for one club and bad for another. It's not straightforward, people don't always align on strategies. There are multiple strategies and paths toward success, but the most important factor is all the main people who are in charge are agreed on the path they should be following. So the manager, the sporting and technical directors, the people in charge of recruitment and the CEO have to be aligned with the general path.
If Ashworth wasn't aligned and pulling in the same direction, then he had to go quite simply. And you'll keep needing to chop and change until we have everyone going down the same path. It might be something that people were aligned at the beginning but once they got in, had a different mindset. That happens all the time. I'm glad we are acting quickly to get rid and adjust rather than stick with something because it looks bad.
Things don't always work that way in practice.So am I, but Whether he's aligned with the general strategy should surely be something that is discoverable during the recruitment process?
Yes, but sometimes it doesn't work out as expected. Especially when you do such a major restructuring like United did in the summer. If you had one member to a team you can get a pretty good feeling about how he will work together with existing team and fit in, but if you throw a bunch of guys together who all are new to their jobs, than you can get unexpected dynamics.So am I, but Whether he's aligned with the general strategy should surely be something that is discoverable during the recruitment process?
The guy wasn't even here for a year. There was simply no time for him to fail in any goals set to him by the club. It's evident that we hired a the person with the wrong skillset for the job. Time and time again Ashworth was being asked to show skills HR never had (ex data analysis skills and player/manager recruitment skills), and getting frustrated at things that were the norm in the industry when hiring a sporting director who's currently in a job (gardening leave). I worked in HR and from my POV it's a recruitment problem. Considering how much it costed us in terms of money, time and image I am baffled that the guy in question wasn't escorted out
It's neither normal nor right to be touched inappropriately by people without your consent. If that happened to you then please report it to the police. If that was meant as a joke/sarcasm then I believe that there are CAF rules against joking about rape that will get you banned.
"(ex data analysis)"
That's not an example of something he has been asked to do that he can't. There's a lot of nonsense here.
When Ratcliffe said that Data analysis at Manchester United was stone age, he wasn't asking Ashworth to head the team or do it himself, he expected recruitment and improvement of infrastructure, he expected action and got suggestions. He failed the remit of the job because he lacks ambition.
Sorry. I thought he beat you up over some lunch money or something.
@devilish just want to say how much I appreciate your current posts here. Explains very well (and in much more detail than I ever wrote ) why I always felt the Ashworth signing wouldn't be a great idea.
Why is that desirable?The structure is still there, Ashworths responsibilities will be picked up by the remaining cooks
It appears like they simply keep Vivell (who was originally only on a short term contract) instead of Ashworth. That might mean a reshuffling of responsibilities but it doesn't look like a big deviation from the original plan/structure, just a name was exchanged. So seeing the total number of executives reaching the originally planned number is desirable in my opinion as it shows they execute their long term planning for the structure but are flexible enough to react to things they notice along the way.Why is that desirable?
But it is a deviation of the current sutructure. In fact, if Ashworth is not replaced, it means the famous new structure that has been touted all year has been scrapped by winter.It appears like they simply keep Vivell (who was originally only on a short term contract) instead of Ashworth. That might mean a reshuffling of responsibilities but it doesn't look like a big deviation from the original plan/structure, just a name was exchanged. So seeing the total number of executives reaching the originally planned number is desirable in my opinion as it shows they execute their long term planning for the structure but are flexible enough to react to things they notice along the way.
Still doesn't change that Ashworth was a recruitment disaster of course, but looks to me like the right steps now to fix that.
Yes, I would be inclined to ring ten Hag up and offer him the job back. He deserves more time.But it is a deviation of the current sutructure. In fact, if Ashworth is not replaced, it means the famous new structure that has been touted all year has been scrapped by winter.
Vivell has been brought in to work on recruitment, Ashworth was supposed to be the central figure with responsibility over the whole organization of the footballing side. Both Wilcox and Vivell would have been reporting to Ashworth. Now who reports to whom?
If anything, seeing what has happened here, it would be only fair and right if we reversed on the Ten Hag sacking and Amorim hiring in order to give Ten Hag some time under the new new structure, since the old new structure apparently wasn't the right new structure. He never got the chance. @Sarni
Leading a club as big as United, even if it's mostly only the "football structure" is insane work. Every club of our size has many cooks to manage it all in the office. It just needs the persons to have a structure and who follows who and someone who is actively managing them all.Anyone think we had too many cooks?
Berrada seems to have had a big role in hiring the manager so he obviously wants to make football decisions. We had Wilcox, ashworth, berrada, vivell, and the ineos guys in brailsford and blanc as well as Jim himself. Do these guys all input on new manager and, god forbid, signings?
If ashworth wanted things that the club did not, like Southgate say, then best to cut ties. But I want to know who does that top football job now. Is berrada qualified to do that job? Usually you separate the CEO and football director. Is Wilcox? He was academy director formerly. Are the ineos guys? Obviously not.
It seems incredible to appoint ashworth and not back him - begs the question do we need someone in the role at all? And if not then what was all that bluster about for years about structure?
Personally I think the idea that the style of play needs to be the same regardless of manager is fecking stupid, especially with a club and team as poorly performing as ours.
Now that's not to say there can't be certain principles that stay the same regardless of manager and squad. Being technically sound, athletic, working hard on and off the ball, and looking to attack and score plenty of goals are all foundational parts of a good football club. But just outright saying you will only play an exact certain style/formation regardless of who is in the dugout is bizarre. No other top club in the world puts that sort of restriction on their team.
Well said.The board of directors list is of public knowledge and can be fount on the official website. INEOS are represented by two people John Reece (minority shareholder in INEOS) and Rob Nevin. I think that we can all agree that such board has no clue about football and would be dependent on others to take the football decisions.
The closest football person in that board was Jean Claude Blanc who became interim CEO in late April and he remained in the post till July.
https://ir.manutd.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx
https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2024/former-ceo-of-psg-becomes-interim-boss-at-manchester-united/#:~:text=Jean-Claude Blanc the former,stepped down from the role.
He worked at Juventus and PSG. Yet Blanc is, by nature, a financial guy. A Harvard business school graduate, Blanc did wonders financially wherever he went. For example he was the brains behind Juventus building the stadium while at the aftermath of the calciopoli scandal that saw Juve losing most of its players, its sponsors and getting itself relegated. He then moved to PSG. Thanks to Blanc the club became a global brand, leveraging the allure of Paris to attract high-profile collaborations, including partnerships with the Jordan brand. Hollywood superstars adorned PSG shirts under Blanc's astute management, elevating the club's soft power and marketability. The guy is a serious man, who did far bigger things from a financial viewpoint then all our CEOs post Edwards did but he's no football person which is why United did well for going for Berrada. On top of that he was based in France and Italy. I don't think he's got great links in the UK.
So the decision in bringing Ashworth in falls on Brailsford. The two worked together prior to the INEOS-Manutd acquisition.In fact Brailsford was invited to Newcastle FC to make a speech to their squad. Dan describe their relationship as the following “I’ve known Sir Dave for a number of years, working across various different sports and he is without doubt the best in world sport at creating high-performance culture and turning that into winning. “There were some brilliant messages for us all and it was great to get him in at this point of pre-season.”
I am not here to judge Ashworth's talent as SD. In my opinion he's a decent SD and as said previously most of his advice was top notch. I won't go in that in this post as its out of this post's scope. What I want to focus on is the total ignorance around this deal
A- SJR was completely shocked at the concept of gardening leave. Yet that's the norm especially when the SD you'll taking comes from a rival club who certainly does not need your money
B- SJR failed to understand Ashworth's set of skills. The guy is an overseer of sort. His job is to hire the right people and make different departments work together. He's neither a recruitment person nor a data analyst
C- No one bothered to ask Ashworth basic things like who would he replace ETH with if the latter get sacked and what were the processes he would take if that had to happen. That's amazing considering that INEOS are trigger happy, ETH wasn't their man, he wasn't doing well and Ashworth HAD NEVER SACKED A MANAGER.
These are the sort of things the owner should be kept updated upon and the basic questions to ask during a recruitment interview for an SD role. Yet somehow they fall down the cracks which should to be big as a pit. So in my opinion, Ashworth's job was a job for the boys given to him by Brailsford with probably no recruitment interview in place. That in itself is already outrageous considering that the top of the football pyramid was chosen by someone who had ZERO football knowledge but it becomes way worse when you consider that this had already happened before. Brailsford was the man who appointed Iain Moody which lead to a series of washed up players from the EPL in a league that shit WC talent left right and center. The situation was so silly that Nice FC manager of the time didn't even how old Barkley was and his role in the team. Can you see the link here? EPL proven, chaos, anything.....?
INEOS are stressing on a ruthless, high performance based system. People need to be highly specialized in their job, waste is being cut down, there's little space for mistakes and no room for respect or empathy. That's lethal on many levels as people are being hurt from the average fan to the United employee right to SAF of all people. However one can label that as a necessary evil considering that United are a shambles financially, infrastructure wise (OT and Carrington) and in terms of squad. Which makes it even more baffling that we still employ a person who has no football skills whatsoever, who had messed up at Nice and who had messed up at United costing INEOS time and money. He's also described as an fitness guru yet our squad is possibly the most lethargic in the EPL and his marginal gains theory had failed at NICE and is currently failing at United as well (we haven't had a horrific start like that since the 80s). The sword should be cutting both ways. It had hit fans, employees, Ashworth and even SAF. Yet somehow it never touches Brailsford
Talk about not being receptive.Yeah, maybe on another topic you might be a bit more receptive, but it's clear on this one you are only here to repeat talking points with no reasonable willingness to take anything on board.
For the record I am aware of what is CURRENTLY public knowledge, as I say, the board AT THE TIME you stated was different, that is not public knowledge.
Ashworth wasn't good enough or ambitious enough to be the Director of Football at Manchester United, he clearly did not perform at the standard his reputation and interview gave the impression he would. Happens in business and work in general quite often in the real world.
Nice chat. Brailsford can't touch you anymore don't worry.
Christ on a crutch, you do spout a lot of drivel."(ex data analysis)"
That's not an example of something he has been asked to do that he can't. There's a lot of nonsense here.
When Ratcliffe said that Data analysis at Manchester United was stone age, he wasn't asking Ashworth to head the team or do it himself, he expected recruitment and improvement of infrastructure, he expected action and got suggestions. He failed the remit of the job because he lacks ambition.
Sorry. I thought he beat you up over some lunch money or something.
Yeah this argument has always been dumb. You sign good players, and make the manager work with them. If the manager is incapable of working with the players you've got, you just sack the fecker. It's that easy. You should never try to accommodate to a single managers needs.
If you've genuinely recruited good players, and a manager comes along and says they don't work for his style or whatever you need to get rid of said manager ASAP.
Spot on. I got shit for saying we put all our eggs in the Dan Ashworth basket and was told he's the best in class etc. They should have interviewed multiple people for the job.I think you're referring to this part of article from the Athletic
"Friction was also apparent when Ashworth proposed bringing in a data company to evaluate the candidates to replace Ten Hag. Ratcliffe was said to have reacted badly, countering that it was Ashworth’s job to know such matters rather than outsource, while also making him question United’s in-house capabilities."
There are two main things to pick here. Let's start from the easy part first
"while also making him question United’s in-house capabilities."
SJR is right on that one and it vindicates my lone crusade against Murtough at the time when almost everyone was drinking his cool aid because 'he's hiring so many data analysts" Having said that ETH was sacked in late October. Considering that this discussion was taken around mid October and that Ashworth had been hired in July then surely no one could expect the guy to identify the issue, hire a team of experienced data analysts and make an entire department up and running in 3-4 months.
If you ask me SJR was asking Ashworth to do it himself. It might sound ridiculous but there are Sporting directors who have data analyst experience. Micheal Edwards for example worked as chief analyst at Liverpool, Spurs and Portsmouth before eventually becoming Liverpool Sporting director. If Sir Jim asked Edwards to do it (who was the person I wanted United to go for)
So what are Ashworth's strengths?
a- he's background is the academy. He was involved in the academy at his first 3 jobs. United already have one of the best academies in the country. That's basically the only thing that is working efficiently at the club
b- he then moved in administration were he built a reputation of making sure that all departments work efficiently as a team. Its evident that Berrada wants to do most of the job himself
Instead we asked him to
a- rebuild the data analysis department in record time despite having little knowledge on the matter.
b- to have a very active role in recruitment (another area he's got little experience in and was the idiot who sold Gyokeres for 1m)
c- to come out with a compelling name that could immediately succeed ETH and that despite the guy had never sacked a manager before.
Can you see the problem here?
This was clearly a recruitment fiasco. We went for a guy with a totally different skillset to what we needed. Its almost like a football club hiring someone with a CV in bicycles and then ask him to choose its sporting director. What possibly could go wrong?
Not often I agree with you Dev but in my opinion you are on the money this time. It’s like SJR wanted one thing but hired something totally unsuited for what he actually wanted. Like you, my gut feeling is that he expected a DoF who could also be an SQL expert, who use the data analysis to tell the narratives.I think you're referring to this part of article from the Athletic
"Friction was also apparent when Ashworth proposed bringing in a data company to evaluate the candidates to replace Ten Hag. Ratcliffe was said to have reacted badly, countering that it was Ashworth’s job to know such matters rather than outsource, while also making him question United’s in-house capabilities."
There are two main things to pick here. Let's start from the easy part first
"while also making him question United’s in-house capabilities."
SJR is right on that one and it vindicates my lone crusade against Murtough at the time when almost everyone was drinking his cool aid because 'he's hiring so many data analysts" Having said that ETH was sacked in late October. Considering that this discussion was taken around mid October and that Ashworth had been hired in July then surely no one could expect the guy to identify the issue, hire a team of experienced data analysts and make an entire department up and running in 3-4 months.
If you ask me SJR was asking Ashworth to do it himself. It might sound ridiculous but there are Sporting directors who have data analyst experience. Micheal Edwards for example worked as chief analyst at Liverpool, Spurs and Portsmouth before eventually becoming Liverpool Sporting director. If Sir Jim asked Edwards to do it (who was the person I wanted United to go for)
So what are Ashworth's strengths?
a- he's background is the academy. He was involved in the academy at his first 3 jobs. United already have one of the best academies in the country. That's basically the only thing that is working efficiently at the club
b- he then moved in administration were he built a reputation of making sure that all departments work efficiently as a team. Its evident that Berrada wants to do most of the job himself
Instead we asked him to
a- rebuild the data analysis department in record time despite having little knowledge on the matter.
b- to have a very active role in recruitment (another area he's got little experience in and was the idiot who sold Gyokeres for 1m)
c- to come out with a compelling name that could immediately succeed ETH and that despite the guy had never sacked a manager before.
Can you see the problem here?
This was clearly a recruitment fiasco. We went for a guy with a totally different skillset to what we needed. Its almost like a football club hiring someone with a CV in bicycles and then ask him to choose its sporting director. What possibly could go wrong?
Thanks and I agree with your argumentNot often I agree with you Dev but in my opinion you are on the money this time. It’s like SJR wanted one thing but hired something totally unsuited for what he actually wanted. Like you, my gut feeling is that he expected a DoF who could also be an SQL expert, who use the data analysis to tell the narratives.
Totally screwed up hiring. He should be looking at Brailsfords role in this.
This seems so unlikely to me - SJR isn’t a moron, he’d know Ashworths background, he knows all about Star lizard and Ashworth’s role working with it. He’d either know if he has that kind of technical background or not, it’s not something a person can just do without the formal education/training.Not often I agree with you Dev but in my opinion you are on the money this time. It’s like SJR wanted one thing but hired something totally unsuited for what he actually wanted. Like you, my gut feeling is that he expected a DoF who could also be an SQL expert, who use the data analysis to tell the narratives.
Totally screwed up hiring. He should be looking at Brailsfords role in this.
SJR didn’t recruit him, Brailsford did, based on a relationship with him. If they had talked to anyone in football they could have told them what he was good at - building structures. It sounds like SJR was putting pressure on for him to do things that he weren’t his skill set. That to me is bad recruiting.This seems so unlikely to me - SJR isn’t a moron, he’d know Ashworths background, he knows all about Star lizard and Ashworth’s role working with it. He’d either know if he has that kind of technical background or not, it’s not something a person can just do without the formal education/training.
More likely they a) wanted Ashworth but only valued his input in the formation of the club structure. He would not have left Newcastle for a short term gig, so they bite the bullet of £2m fee + severance but now the structure is in place and feck him over.
Or b) Berrada has never been a CEO and wants to be more hand on. So the role naturally changes as the more senior person begins to gobble up Ashworth’s remit and then it becomes clear actually what they really need is the more data focused hire.
Unlike most business men SJR has has a genuine interest in sports. However you can't expect someone who owns a 59b company and who employ 26k people to know each role in football, what it entails and the individual skills of each and every employee of his. He's also a 72 year old man and without wanting to sound ageist he was probably obsessed about football at a time when roles such as sporting directors didn't even existed. I am half his age and with 1/100 of his responsibilities and even I struggled to understand modern terms such as half space and half line. In fact I had to look it up and learn.This seems so unlikely to me - SJR isn’t a moron, he’d know Ashworths background, he knows all about Star lizard and Ashworth’s role working with it. He’d either know if he has that kind of technical background or not, it’s not something a person can just do without the formal education/training.
More likely they a) wanted Ashworth but only valued his input in the formation of the club structure. He would not have left Newcastle for a short term gig, so they bite the bullet of £2m fee + severance but now the structure is in place and feck him over.
Or b) Berrada has never been a CEO and wants to be more hand on. So the role naturally changes as the more senior person begins to gobble up Ashworth’s remit and then it becomes clear actually what they really need is the more data focused hire.