This is the crux and part of what lost Ashworth his job. Sticking with a manager who wasnt getting the best out of his team and accomodating a summer window that now looks underwhelming.
As much as our plan to build to a 433 has been a sh1t show, it was still seemingly the plan. Mazraoui has been the best signing of the summer, but would he have been an Amorim signing? Probably not.
I don't know. Still sounds too absolute to me. I mean, a 4-3-3 either has width from the actual wingers who like to operate in wide areas to facilitate for others or make runs from those positions OR you have those wingers more narrow but you absolutely then fullbacks that are physical freaks to bomb that side up and down all day. We had neither of those things. And Mazraoui has his strength (the most known at least) when coming inside, so I don't think he is in any short list when recruiting fullbacks for a 4-3-3 (except of course for special variations, but if we allow such thing in the discussion, then it enables anybody to find some sense in any transfer on the planet, also not too helpful I guess. I mean, this is very hypothetical of course so don't understand my objection as considering your take as crazy. But I can tell you outright, that it never occured to me to describe our recruitment as "build for 4-3-3".
I agree overall, ETH should have been let go in the summer when the doubts were there already. Summer signings shouldn't be too focussed on who currently sits in the dugout anyway, I also wouldn't label any of the signings as "we only have him because ETH wanted him". If the club wasn't ready to provide ETH with options then I don't hold it against him to bring options up that he knows. And when the club agrees, its the clubs signings, not the ones of the manager.
Dont get me wrong, i wanted Amorim at United over a year ago. Just about the only person advocating for him....
https://www.redcafe.net/search/6972...[older_than]=2024-09-28&c[users]=gaffs&o=date
I still think he is the man for the job. My point though is to justify why Ashworth may not have, which is binning of some players just because they are not a fit in the 3421. If this was Ashworths belief, then perhaps he want alone because Liverpool and West Ham passed on Amorim.
Perhaps Ashworths hope was that a new manager that could play 433 could at least get something out of Rashford and Garnacho to put them in the shop window in the hope that someone would bite.
But as you said "
having players like Garnacho and Rashford as wingers who don't really seem to care at all about creating stuff for others, would also be a problem:".
So if we can see it, every football scout in the world can. Still, i hope Amorim can get more out of them with a view of getting rid.
I have nothing against Amorim and the early signs are well liked in my house. But he never made it to the A-list for me, because of that 3-4-3. Not because I think, this system is bad or funny or couldn't be implemented or whatever. Simply because I thought, given that we even struggle to get a plain and simple 4-2-3-1 to work, I guess we work on that and not add another factor of difficulty. 3atb systems are still rather exotic, again, I don't think, they are worse or better or anything, I just think, that there are more players out there who are more comfortable in a rather traditional backline. Whether Rashford and Garnacho were things that Ashworth considered I don't know, personally can't really imagine thats the case but who knows. At the end of the day, those two are footballers, parts of a team and I only care about that team. If they can contribute to this team becoming successfull again, lets go. If they can't, lets go away. If they maybe can but we are not sure, then lets find out or cash in right now because we shouldn't waste time on testing players with limited ceilings.
As expressed, i doubt it with Garnacho, but i would love to be proven wrong.
I think for the foreseeable, Amorim doesn't have a Trincao or Goncalves and we have so few players that can play in tight spaces, so he will have to play with what he has.
Even under Fergie, we have struggled to find that player - we went looking for that in Kagawa, Moyes with Mata. Then Alexis Sanchez. Yet other clubs have had many. Not sure what it is, but it seems that United cant get away from the identity of two quick winders, but i digress.
Definitely see what you mean here. I always had the feeling that there was the believe that we could have the cake and eat it at the same time. Have our two attacking wingers AND a 10 like player as every other successful team had. I think, main issue at least for the ones you listed has been scouting. And a real understanding on how to construct a team. People were bought for their names, not necessarily for a need or a certain role in mind...
You may be right, Amorim may have a long term plan to move away from the system that has worked so well for him. But i doubt it.
Just fyi, that wasn't what I wanted to say. What I heard and read about Amorim is, that he tweaked his Sporting team all the time. Depending on the opponent he changed personal, role description and approach. His inside forwards didn't play the same way all the time. Even if they were really good. He also deployed runners there to move in behind. Thats what I mean, it is fairly difficult to say, what Amorim wants to do. Whether he is really picking an 11 right now or maybe a 16-set-toolkit. Who knows. It is too early to be definitive about those things and while I would also say, that it doesn't look ideal for Garnacho and Rashford, who knows how they might react to different instructions.
He wants two attacking full backs that play high up the field, thus causing the oppositions midfield and defence to stretch horizontally, which allows us to pass the ball forward into the gaps created. We wants two technical 10s to play in those gaps and a big forward like he had at Sporting in Paulinho and then Gyokeres. And a CB playing like a QB that can find the wing backs with deep balls - see Sebastian Coates.
You mean wingbacks I guess. But yes, I agree. And the selection in this area for United is as dire as it gets. But it is what the team deserves I guess, I am crying out for attack fullbacks for a while but people were so happy about key-pass-king Shaw and Dalot... For the 10s, I agree, but maybe he isn't as set as you think. I mean, Amad is the one player that has that inside 10 role written all over him. But he never was played there yet... So maybe he isn't as set in those role descriptions as you think.
But for now, he is going to have to play the hand he has been dealt.
Yes. And while I would say that the wingback positions are something that stick out as not ideal when you watch our play, I kind of didn't have that feel about the 10 room. I think the players he has there are able to give him a bit of options so that is going to be fine, for this season, it will be instrumental to find the right midfield pairing and elevate somebody to up the level on the leftern side. If we achieve that, I guess we'll be a functional side.
100%. I still love Garnacho though, and probably will keep him if he's ok being a squad player for now.