Dan "The Gardener" Ashworth Has Left | Venit, vidit, non vicit

He was probably the most well established individual in the role he had, and we’ve got rid.

I guess he wasn’t on board with Amorim appointment, and the club has decided to let go of nay sayers at top management.
 
HTG said:
I'm sure they asked the important questions. Like what kind of egg he would be, if he were an egg.
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Dartford Warbler Egg. Doesn’t get anymore English than that.
 
Red_toad said:
Long term plan is in the name, if it were over night gratification, then I’d be concerned.
I’m happy they’ve acted decisively. Doesn’t look good as the media thrive on this shite, but whatever takes the club forward is a positive. No Southgate ever is certainly a positive.
Back then, there was no plan, you don’t see it, that’s a you issue.
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5 months ago the (long-term) plan for our new owners was hiring Dan Ashworth, keeping EtH, and buying players that fit EtH's system.

Now, 5 months later, we are without a sporting director, apparently don't know if we want a replacement, and have a manager whose system fits very few of our (anyway) awful players.

I'm sure there was a plan back then which just never came to fruition. Let's wait and see if we have any fortune this time around.
 
Shiva87 said:
He was probably the most well established individual in the role he had, and we’ve got rid.

I guess he wasn’t on board with Amorim appointment, and the club has decided to let go of nay sayers at top management.
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Yeah, he probably wanted Southgate
 
I don't know why many expected Ineos to be class when they've shown how shit they are with Nice.

Radcliffe enabled the Glazers to stay he's doomed us to mediocrity when we could've been bought by the Arabs.
 
They wanted to fire ETH and talked to other managers. Kept ETH but didnt give a contract. Recruited new players for the manage. Hired a sporting director. Fired ETH and hired a new manager. Now fired the sporting director. Now possibly they will hire another sporting director who wasnt involved in the hiring of the new manager or the millions spent over the summer.

Just a fiasco. INEOS still should be given time. But the decision making from summer till now has been chaotic. It doesn't reflect an organization that has a disciplined plan and vision for the future.
 
Werd. said:
If that report about Jimmy being infuriated about Ashworth's comment is true, then, he is even more sensitive than the Glazers.
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I'd rather stick to believe only what the Athletic says tbh.
 
GlazersHater said:
I don't know why many expected Ineos to be class when they've shown how shit they are with Nice.

Radcliffe enabled the Glazers to stay he's doomed us to mediocrity when we could've been bought by the Arabs.
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So what? I'd rather have the Glazers forever than for United to become a state-owned club. And that wouldn't have been a guarantee of anything either to sell our souls for. Newcastle currently, PSG both currently and overall, and City in their first few years post-2008 as well are good examples of serial mismanagement.
 
oreon said:
They wanted to fire ETH and talked to other managers. Kept ETH but didnt give a contract. Recruited new players for the manage. Hired a sporting director. Fired ETH and hired a new manager. Now fired the sporting director. Now possibly they will hire another sporting director who wasnt involved in the hiring of the new manager or the millions spent over the summer.

Just a fiasco. INEOS still should be given time. But the decision making from summer till now has been chaotic. It doesn't reflect an organization that has a disciplined plan and vision for the future.
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They'll just promote Wilcox and bring Vivell in permanently, and if needed have Barrada assist with some of the DoF work and hire a commercial executive
 
Tony247 said:
God forbid but if and a big IF this was SJ's impulsive decision and Berrada is not fully onboard then the club will be in real mess in coming months.
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We already are in a real mess by the sounds of it
 
Pexbo said:
Did they forget to ask him anything at all in the interview process?
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Do you know the amount of people who during interviews state that they have an advanced understanding of Excel but can't even find the icon?
 
Let’s just blame EtH. If he had won games we would have been a club with structure, great signings and a great looking future ahead of us.
 
Rojofiam said:
Begiristain is 60 years old and has built a legacy now at a big (not really) club. He's the first person everyone will think of when talking about the "structure" at City. He's also retiring, which he has been planning to do since 2019. I doubt he would want to take on any long-term project right now, especially for his legacy club's biggest rivals, and especially in a lesser role than he was working in at City.

In comparison, Berrada is just 45, and was never the main guy at City like he is now at United, the time for him to make his mark in the game is now. I doubt he would even consider brining Begiristain to United, even if the latter was willing to come, which I seriously doubt.
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Maybe you're right. However I admit that something doesn't sit right with what's happening at City. First Berrada leaves which was described by reports as 'having shocked Txiki'. Ok Omar got a promotion at United but he was supposed to be Soriano's future replacement. Last summer they barely spend money on the transfer market which was followed by Txiki's announcement that he will leave next summer. Fast forward time to present date and City are being underwhelming, Pep is nervous and there's rumors that Viana is already pulling the strings at City .

Now I am far from a Manchester City expert but from my POV that doesn't look good. Leaving a legacy like that on a low and after not being properly backed on the transfer market might sound meah to common mortals like ourselves but its totally disrespectful to people with a legacy to protect like Txiki does. SAF was in a similar position (though different as he was the boss till the last day) in 2002 which lead to him postponing his retirement date. Imagine how angry he would be if Sven was allowed to pull the strings while SAF was still around. Would that push SAF to the edge? I don't think so as he was a 'one big club' man. Txiki though is not having been DOF for Barcelona prior to moving to City.

Age is still a problem but to a certain extent. What if his short term replacement is already at the club and is someone that Txiki had already worked with and he rated? Suddenly you have a situation were Txiki would be working with two people he trusts and rates one of whom happens to be his former boss (in a certain way) and the other as his pupil.
 
DSG said:
So we have the following:
1. INEOS purchasing a minority stake but taking control of footballing operations.
2. Hiring “best in class” executives, paying release clauses to competing clubs
3. Dithering over replacing ETH, interviewing other candidates, before flying to meet Ten Hag to tell him in person he still has a job.
4. Brailsford bragging about leaving Monaco to “fix” the club
5. Extending ETH’s contract for a year, only to sack him within two months of the season starting
6. Hiring in new assistant coaches only to sack them along with Ten Hag
7. Spending 200m on more ex-Ten Hag players / Ten Hag choices, only to hire a coach that has a defined 3-4-2-1 system, which most of these players don’t fit.
8. Sacking one of the “best in class” executives after 5 months.
9. We’re 13th in the table

I have to say, I said in June after the ETH fiasco that it’s a little bit of a Glazers 2.0 feeling. And here we are…
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All in less than 12 months as well.
 
This is how you run a world class club. You don’t carry stragglers. United won’t be the first or last club to hire someone only to later realize they’re not up to the task. It’s no surprise he’s gone and I’m glad to see the change.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Need to hear from someone reliable like Stone, Whitwell or of course Ornstein on what are the actual plans in terms of a replacement. Wheeler has suggested it could just be a case of Wilcox and Vivell getting more responsibility
 
Todd said:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics, which explains that the state of disorder and uncertainty in a system will always increase over time, seems to be perfectly confirmed by the existence of this football club.

I would say that right now we should already be looking back at the LVG and Mourinho eras with longing; a decade from now, we'll probably be looking at the ETH era with longing.

That's a scary thought.
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The only thing that circumvents that is evolution. Something else we need to do.
 
red.knight said:
This is how you run a world class club. You don’t carry stragglers. United won’t be the first or last club to hire someone only to later realize they’re not up to the task. It’s no surprise he’s gone and I’m glad to see the change.
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Exactly. We're basically imitating Bayern's last couple of years, who as everyone knows are an excellently run club.
 
Media writing articles like never before and guessing just to keep people curious. This has simple answer. It is about control, power and blame game.
 
El Zoido said:
Huge overreaction and it would be best for you to take a break from following the club. Personally I’m pretty confident it’ll settle by the end of the season and that the decision to remove Ashworth is the correct one.
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I find that pretty disrespetful to be honest, but I don't think I'm going to go further with it than that. It's a big world with a lot of opinions.

Good for you if you feel confident about this decision and the way things are being handled. If you take a look around there are a lot of people who do not share that sentiment at all.
 
Cantona in disguise said:
With regards to ETH in the summer I am fully guilty of wanting him to stay as a fan I let emotions cloud my thought process. However the top dogs at this club should never let that happen. The right decision despite fan pressure should have been to let him go. Who is at fault for that not sure but looks like ashworth has a hand in it.

Also if ashworth didn't want amorim and was against his formation setup then he had to go because the club have decided amorims ways of playing is what they want (i think) so a full transformation to this style is required (as you rightly point out why the scouse lot didn't do this). United require a full transformation to this style and if they genuinely have a plan it will take time and a bit of suffering pointed out by amorim.

He has a couple of years to get this right and if he doesn't he will rightly be sacked. Then it's if we see if ineos have a plan or they just pick another type of manager and round and round we go. Time will tell
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The thing is, i dont think Ashworth is meant to be involved in tactical or technical approaches to how a team should play. Isn't that the role of technical director, Jason Wilcox?

I think the only reason he may have been against Amorim, is that with Amorim there are very few currently players we have that fit the profile. We dont have wingbacks, we dont have 10s that play like the Sporting 10s. We dont have the best center backs on the ball. We dont have a forward who can hold up the ball like Gyokeres did at Sporting.

The squad has been build to play 433. Yes, the squad isnt great and ETH wasnt getting much out of them, but if Ashworth was against Amorim because it would have meant binning most of our squad, including most of the summer signings, then i see his point.
 
Glass half empty: they have no idea what they are doing and are flailing about.

Glass half full: there is a decade of bad decision making and rewarding mediocrity at this club and the man they employed to start making good decisions and reward excellence wanted to keep ten hag, bought poorly and wanted Southgate. They acted early and decisively.

Not sure where I fall to be honest. I think those comparing this decision to something the Glazers would do are wrong, the would dither and hold onto him even if it wasn’t working.
 
Blood Mage said:
The feck would the point be of replacing him with another external hire if Berrada and Wilcox decide they don't like him either?
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True they should just let the City duo do their thing and makes it easier to smoke them out if they are bluffers. No point in bringing another third wheel when they have failed to work with Ashworth who was highly rated and had a reputation for collaborative work within structures.
 
United hierarchy decided to keep ETH in June. Ashworth joined the club on 1st July. ETH signed new contract on 4th July.

Any "journo" saying it was Ashworth's decision then it's pure bollocks.
 
gaffs said:
The thing is, i dont think Ashworth is meant to be involved in tactical or technical approaches to how a team should play. Isn't that the role of technical director, Jason Wilcox?

I think the only reason he may have been against Amorim, is that with Amorim there are very few currently players we have that fit the profile. We dont have wingbacks, we dont have 10s that play like the Sporting 10s. We dont have the best center backs on the ball. We dont have a forward who can hold up the ball like Gyokeres did at Sporting.

The squad has been build to play 433. Yes, the squad isnt great and ETH wasnt getting much out of them, but if Ashworth was against Amorim because it would have meant binning most of our squad, including most of the summer signings, then i see his point.
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All of that stuff was supposed to be bought for 4-2-3-1 for ETH to use

For example we have a clear focus on playing out from the back. If you dont think we have good players for that, well thats what we were supposed to be buying for the past several years including last summer where we bought 2 new CBs and a fullback who can play CB in a 3.

Zirkzee was either supposed to be able to play as a 9 or 10, hes a mix. Ugarte was in Sporting's team and sold for a lot of money

We couldnt get everything in 1 summer and the only striker we bought was Zirkzee who despite being costly, is something like 12 million up front

We have loads of players who can play as a 10.

Bruno, Eriksen, Zirkzee and Mount have all played as a 10 for country or another club. Amad can surely play there

No we don't have wingbacks because this is the first manager we've had who wanted to use them as plan A

And we do have several players who don't seem to fit as 10s being tried there like Garnacho and Rashford. Either that experiment will end or they will get a bit better at the actual skills needed for the position, or they'll be tried in new positions and if none of that works eventually we'll get rid of them or they'll be exclusively used as subs
 
As for Ashworth I didnt rate him highly from Newcastle and it hadnt worked yet here either, so happy to see him leave
 
AneRu said:
I don't think the Amorim system is that unique that it would require a complete revamp of a competent squad. There really is nothing special about signing or grooming a couple technical no. 10s, a couple wingbacks and increasing your depth at CB. Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal could play this system comfortably and win. We just have too many average, dumb and lazy players to make anything work.

Remember that the guy who signed and extended contracts for the majority of this shit for his system lost his job because they couldn't implement it either, as did a club legend who relied so much on Rashford and Bruno.
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Let's assume Amorim could get much more out of everyone in the current squad, he would still need to replace half of them because they dont fit the profiles required.

And what happens if the Amorim system doesn't work? What do we do with those extra CBs, wingbacks, 10s, that are suddenly surplus? Or are we now a 3 at the back team post Amorim too?

If another manager did come in and play a 433, and was able to get the very best out of Rashford, Bruno or Garnacho, then at least there is a position for them. With Amorim, there likely isn't.

Unless there is a massive change in how certain players in our squad start to play, they won't ever have the attributes of some of the Sporting players. Show me who can play in the way Goncalves, Trincao, Reis, Catamo or Inacio play? Not to mention Gyokeres

This may have been Ashworths gripe.

And this is not me saying Amorim is the wrong coach. It is saying that Ashworth may have been left hung out to dry because money was spent on one type of player for a 433 and come November, Barrada brings in a coach who plays a very different one.

The idea was for the football structure to be static and the coach could be dropped in without the need of wanting XI new players to fit his system?
 
SJ in Oct 2024 on whether United should continue with ETH:

"It's the management team that's running Manchester United that have to decide how we best run the team in many different respects.

But that team that's running Manchester United has only been together since June or July. They weren't there in January, February, March or April – [CEO] Omar [Berrada], [sporting director] Dan Ashworth - they only arrived in July.
"They've only been there… you can count it in weeks almost - they've not been there a long time, so they need to take stock and make some sensible decisions."

Doesn't sound like SJ in any way putting ETH contract situation on Ashworth or Berrada. In fact he seems to be defending them. What went spectacularly wrong in two months then?
 
Sky1981 said:
Judging him only works if you actually let him do what he thinks it's best.

There's an old Chinese saying

"Trust the man you hire, if you dont trust him dont hire him"
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How long do you give him.

IF... it was Dan who kept ETH, gave him another 200m, gave Bruno a bumper contract, and then wanted Southgate over Amorin. I think that's enough to sense it isn't going to work.

When you are making so many appointments, very rarely will they all go to plan.

This communication is poor though from the club, as usual.
 
FortunaUtd said:
Exactly. We're basically imitating Bayern's last couple of years, who as everyone knows are an excellently run club.
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We don’t need to emulate Bayern's last couple of years, we just need to be decisive in addressing squad shortcomings. I rather see a young talent like Amass making mistakes and growing than have another season with Luke Shaw.
 
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