Dan "The Gardener" Ashworth Has Left | Venit, vidit, non vicit

I wonder if he was against sacking ETH. Ah well, 5 months with a proper DOF and we’re back to square one.
 
FriedClams said:
Glad he's gone, he's not a winner. West From, Brighton, Newcastle and England won NOTHING with him supposedly being the brains of those operations.
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Because Brighton, Newcastle and England didnt improve at all in the last few years?

Im sure Ashworth was to blame because they didn't win the League, FA Cup, World Cup and fricking Grand National!
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Well if reports are to believed that Ashworth wasn't totally on board with the Amorim appointment then this is about as much support as he could ask for.
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I’m referring to the support he gets in terms of competence annd expertise after he joins as manager. All our managers have got support by way of transfer funds and management backing (as in this is out guy) but none have got a well oil machine capable of running a football really well.
 
Stupid decision by the club with the decision to hire him in the first place but it’s a good thing at least that someone has been held accountable for the decision to stick with ETH in the summer.
 
The atmosphere in the office must be peachy. So what's next, Wilcox out the door because his beard is trimmed differently to Sir Jim's ?

Majority wanted this guy, folks wanted DoF, or did everyone in the club got hit by a truck full of alzheimers, all of a sudden...
 
Freak said:
All abit strange consider ineos chased him for such a while.
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When things aren't going well on the pitch then angry and emotional decisions are often made off it. Also, Ineos have a track record of this at Nice.
 
Deadly serious if he is the reason ETH stayed on and he wanted Southgate to replace him, then we should view this as a positive that he’s being held accountable. It still just reeks of incompetence though. We’ve just wasted another season letting ETH waste more money on crap strikers, fuming.
 
So that’s why the transfer guru was signed to help and extended. They probably had doubts about Ashworth even during the summer.
 
Maybe he was a naughty boy, 5 months is too soon to fire a guy they headhunted and already knew.
 
Solius said:
I mean the only positive I can take from this is at least if they’ve realised it isn’t working they’re biting the bullet now rather than sticking with a wrong decision.
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It seems that this is what happened, and it also seems some of our fans think we’re a circus for making a good decision.
 
Struggling to care since I never took the time to understand the roles and responsibilities of the many directors we’ve hired.

But it is funny because we wanted this particular guy for so long. We’ve seen players we’ve chased for a while and paid big fees for join and turn to shit here, apparently that superpower extends to non-playing staff too
 
Not so upset about the news. It’s obviously a lot to fix in our club. Like player recruitment, football people recruitment can be hard as well. Not every good idea will work out. If things don’t work out as planned, it’s better to make a swift decision sooner rather than later.

My gut feeling is that we are better off without him.
 
Tarrou said:
this all sounds like the PR-driven reasons/excuses to me

all that stuff fits very conveniently into the club narrative to get rid

but if he really wanted gareth southgate then why on earth are brexit jim and the ceo appointing him in the first place? He has the tactical nous of a managerial dinosaur
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Yep. There's no fecking way Ashworth suddenly sprung the idea of Southgate on Ratcliffe and was utterly devoted to it. The club spent months speaking with the guy and engineering his move here. It's transparent as feck that it's a leak to try and paint the club in a better light.
 
devilsadvoca8 said:
Does the social media platform work? Is it defunct and showing signs of downward trajectory? Elon and X isn't what you think it is regardless of his personal views, X is better than it's ever been. Now to Sir Jim, you call him detached but yet wanted a structure put in place so not one single owner made the decisions. Isn't him being more detached what you wanted? He did what you all wanted and you're still complaining. It was never going to be smooth or without issues.
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No idea what you're on about especially with "what you all wanted"

I never wanted him involved with the club. I didn't want him to publicly call our entire squad rubbish and put them all up for sale. I never wanted us to stick with ETH especially not to juat sack him part way through the season anyway. I never wanted the belittling remarks from Ratcliffe aboit our women's team, a bunch of people who've done nothing wrong sacked for no reason, unjustifiable ticket price hikes, the Wembley of the north vanity crap.

I was against the whole idea from the start, and I'm not sure where in your post there is any suggestion never mind argument that any of it is for the greater good, apart from the bizarre idea that twitter is "better" now it's become a right wing propaganda machine for a real life bond villain.

The idea that Ratcliffe sacking his football structure team any time they do something he doesn't like proves he's "detached" is also completely nonsensical.

It's constantly alarming how detached some people on here are from reality.
 
Ratcliffe looks like a bit of a joke at the moment, but if he’s sacked Ashworth for wanting Southgate, it’s a very good reason to do so. The problem would then be hiring him in the first place without doing any due diligence on things like this.
 
Acquire Me said:
Not so upset about the news. It’s obviously a lot to fix in our club. Like player recruitment, football people recruitment can be hard as well. Not every good idea will work out. If things don’t work out as planned, it’s better to make a swift decision sooner rather than later.

My gut feeling is that we are better off without him.
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I’m annoyed at the shambles of it and the waste of time and money but Ashworth always felt like the least inspiring appointment and one I just couldn’t get excited about.


After making a huge song and dance about our new football structure, if we decide not to replace him, that will be a huge red flag imo and proof they are still winging it.
 
So what was the purpose of bringing in a sporting director?

Apparently to "oversee the club's football operations with ultimate responsibility for recruitment and performance".

I thought the idea was that the sporting structure would create the footballing identity and managers could be brought in who could work with that team. Thus meaning that if a new manager came in, he wouldn't need 11 new players to make his system work. We have seen this over and over and it has led to these teams we put out where no manager feels that the team is really his.

The issue seems to be that Berrada, Ashorth, Wilcox etc were on the same page in terms of creating what they felt was a footballing identity and they felt that ETH could manage a team who could represent that identity - a pretty standard 433. And even if ETH was to fail, someone else could be brought in to take this over without needed a whole new XI.
So they signed players to fit over the summer - even though some may doubt the quality.

Three months later, that goes out of the window and we bring in a manager that quite frankly is a footballing outlier in terms of system. Very few teams are playing a 3421, so it takes specialists to fit some of the key positions. From what i read, Amorim was very much a Berrada driven appointment.

My feeling is that Ashworth may have looked at Amorim in the summer as he knew that it would mean a total revamp of the squad where many of ETHs signings and academy players like Rashford and Garnacho could end up surplus to requirements. A tough task of improving United would be made even harder when trying to find wingbacks, two technical number 10s etc.

Don't get me wrong, this is no knock on Amorim. I think he is a great coach. But i think now that footballing structure is now about to be built around him and his ideas, rather than the other way around. That is quite a dangerous path because should Amorim leave or be fired, then what? Who else is going to come in and be able to utilise the players he may sign?
 
gaffs said:
So what was the purpose of bringing in a sporting director?

Apparently to "oversee the club's football operations with ultimate responsibility for recruitment and performance".

I thought the idea was that the sporting structure would create the footballing identity and managers could be brought in who could work with that team. Thus meaning that if a new manager came in, he wouldn't need 11 new players to make his system work. We have seen this over and over and it has led to these teams we put out where no manager feels that the team is really his.

The issue seems to be that Berrada, Ashorth, Wilcox etc were on the same page in terms of creating what they felt was a footballing identity and they felt that ETH could manage a team who could represent that identity - a pretty standard 433. And even if ETH was to fail, someone else could be brought in to take this over without needed a whole new XI.
So they signed players to fit over the summer - even though some may doubt the quality.

Three months later, that goes out of the window and we bring in a manager that quite frankly is a footballing outlier in terms of system. Very few teams are playing a 3421, so it takes specialists to fit some of the key positions. From what i read, Amorim was very much a Berrada driven appointment.

My feeling is that Ashworth may have looked at Amorim in the summer as he knew that it would mean a total revamp of the squad where many of ETHs signings and academy players like Rashford and Garnacho could end up surplus to requirements. A tough task of improving United would be made even harder when trying to find wingbacks, two technical number 10s etc.

Don't get me wrong, this is no knock on Amorim. I think he is a great coach. But i think now that footballing structure is now about to be built around him and his ideas, rather than the other way around. That is quite a dangerous path because should Amorim leave or be fired, then what? Who else is going to come in and be able to utilise the players he may sign?
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Whoever comes in next will be picked (if there is a plan) to play in a very similar way to amorim. Not necessarily the exact same formation etc but similar styles so the players can make it work. Look at the scouse lot they brought in slot who is a little bit more conservative than klopp but the players can adapt as it isn't too much different.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
What do you think Ashworth did by the way?

He sat above all departments and created the structure. The idea was he would build and oversee all depts but he wasn’t not part of the long term footballing side from a decision making standpoint re what we see on the pitch. He’s basically the head of all ops. Everyone reports into him, but he is not hands on there at all. Nor is he hands on with scouting targets. He’s like a middle man between Omar and everything. Not to say he was not important (I assume he will be replaced) but Berrada is very hands on from what we’ve heard so I wonder if he simply deemed him a bit pointless in the setup.

It might be a good move, it might be terrible but I don’t think a sporting director leaving who has no track record with is that big a deal.
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It's likely that Berrada's and Ashworth's duties had significant overlap. And it has been reported before that Ashworth wants to be the big man at a club. He had already fallen out with people at Newcastle. It's likely their duties, and personalities, clashed a lot. What also matters here is how much Ratcliffe's voice mattered, because if he just sacks people on a whim like that...

But I just don't see how could INEOS deem him essential, and spend so much time and money hiring him, to then sack him so quickly? I'm just struggling to understand the thought process on this and to me this is indication that there is no plan at all and they don't know what they are doing. They didn't have a clear vision on what the structure of the club will be, and vision is what this club sorely lacks. It's almost as if they heard there should be a DoF, typed "best DoF" in Google, and decided on the first result. Even ordinary people on this forum suspected there are too many cooks, but naturally everyone trusted the people used to building large organisations, even when there was proof that INEOS can't run football clubs. Well, now it turns out that is indeed the case. And at this level, you can't just shrug and say you made a mistake, especially considering how much money was spent on buying him out, paying his wages, then what I'm assuming is a decently sized severance package, while raising ticket prices because the club needs money.

I suppose it's better than sticking with something that's not working... but how can you trust people to have the necessary vision to turn this club around when they do something like this? And what now? Does the position get scrapped entirely and Wilcox and Berrada cover it between themselves? Or someone else gets hired? I was always on the fence about INEOS, leaning distrustful, and something like this doesn't convince me, but quite the opposite.

On a mostly unrelated note, though, I'd like it if Brailsford also wasn't here. I just don't understand what necessitates his presence at the club.
 
FreakyJim said:
I'm guessing he didn't want Amorim and the 3 - 4 - 3 (3 - 5 - 2) nonsense. We could be looking back and saying he was "right". It'll be so us. "Mourinho right"
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Pexbo said:
I’m completely pulling this out my arse but Amorim always felt like a Berada hire. Ashworth’s whole stchick is getting the clubs playing one system from the u9s through to the first team.

I think there’s a good chance that Ashworth would like to install 4-2-3-1 through the club and that breaks down when it reaches the first team. So Ashworth is basically wondering what sort of control or sway he supposedly has despite supposedly being the top football man in the club.



The real farce here is that it will be another ridiculous severance package which will make a mockery of the savings we have made when we fired all those low level employees and then there’s all the money we are apparently raising putting up ticket prices.

Impossible to think this doesn’t add negativity and weights on the ankle of Amorim’s already uphill task.
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This hang up over formations man.

The 3-5-2 was the all new modern England way. They play 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 at FA grass roots. The guy got escorted from Old Trafford (not even the place these meetings take place) by security. He didn't just say to Ruben his tactics are a bit shit.
 
It's becoming clear why we parted ways. No doubt Berrada and Wilcox laughed him out the room when he suggested Southgate. Luckhurst also saying Ashworth was not part of the process of appointing Amorim.

 
Tom Van Persie said:
It's becoming clear why we parted ways. No doubt Berrada and Wilcox laughed him out the room when he suggested Southgate. Luckhurst also saying Ashworth was not part of the process of appointing Amorim.

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What a joker if true, this would have sent us to the dark ages
 
Mcking said:
This is Berrada exercising his authority as CEO. The decision to bring in Ashworth was made before he became CEO. Wilcox and Amorim are his men, Ashworth is not. With Wilcox at the club, Ashworth is not required.
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Right! Power play by Omar.
 
I questioned his appointment on day one that they announced they were after him. Got laughed at here when I asked what he had achieved at Newcastle: the answer was f*ck all. Five months pursuing him, millions in compensation and now having to pay him off... new faces in charge, some clown show
 
Cantona in disguise said:
Whoever comes in next will be picked (if there is a plan) to play in a very similar way to amorim. Not necessarily the exact same formation etc but similar styles so the players can make it work. Look at the scouse lot they brought in slot who is a little bit more conservative than klopp but the players can adapt as it isn't too much different.
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Coudltn Ashworth have helped identify players to fit Amorim's system? Can Ashworth only find 433 players? This is the bit that confuses me.

Re Liverpool. A big reason they probably didn't go for Amorim is because they knew it would take a complete overhaul. Little point in going in that direction when Klopp had already built team what was performing to a high level. Little point in ripping that up.

I think fingers have been pointed at Ashworth for the summer recruitment which now looks terrible given most wont fit into Amorims system. But is that really his fault? Not getting rid of ETH may have been. But lets not misremember that facts, after the FA Cup final the sentiment was that ETH should stay - the Caf poll said as much. Mainly because no one liked the alternatives.
 
mitchmouse said:
I questioned his appointment on day one that they announced they were after him. Got laughed at here when I asked what he had achieved at Newcastle: the answer was f*ck all. Five months pursuing him, millions in compensation and now having to pay him off... new faces in charge, some clown show
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You must love days like this.
 
justsomebloke said:
You don't get why people are having a go at the club? Really? The Club who thought he was worth millions and months in limbo, and then lose him within a few months? Does that seem like good judgment to you? Nothing went wrong somewhere in that process?
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I've already stated that if something isn't working then it's best to change quickly.
It's the same reason people were having a pop at the club for not sacking EtH quickly enough...yet these same people are now having a go at the club for changing things quickly!!
 
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