Dan Ashworth - Garden ready | Back to football with United | use thread in United forum

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Berbaclass said:
It clearly does mate. Us taking them to arbitration is recent, they discovered the email in preparation of said arbitration.
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apologies I edited after you replied, yeah I see your point on that bit

but we don't know exactly when Ashworth told them he'd take them to arbitration, or when they started to prepare for it

I reckon they were digging through his emails the very second they found out about us tapping him up. Once it became public then it would be the first thing I'd do in case he went in there and deleted some.
 
Berbaclass said:
They are fecking seething on the Newcastle forum, properly foaming at the mouth :lol:

They are also reading this thread and laughing at us.

Cretins. Nobody fecking cares about Newcastle lads. Soon as Ashworth got a whiff of United he fecked them off big style.
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Must be hard being a Geordie. They need to have some happiness in their lives.
 
Tarrou said:
apologies I edited after you replied, yeah I see your point on that bit

but we don't know exactly when Ashworth told them he'd take them to arbitration, or when they started to prepare for it

I reckon they were digging through his emails they very second they found out about us tapping him up. Once it became public then it would be the first thing I'd do in case he went in there and deleted some.
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Safe to assume after Newcastle potentially breached their contract by putting on gardening leave I'd say.

That's my point. Newcastle seemingly fecked up before they had any knowledge (emails and such) of our potential indiscretions.
 
Berbaclass said:
Safe to assume after Newcastle potentially breached their contract by putting on gardening leave I'd say.

That's my point. Newcastle seemingly fecked up before they had any knowledge (emails and such) of our potential indiscretions.
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it could very have been discussed in the first conversation after they found out, if not with him directly then with their legal team internally

they can easily make a case for having good reason to check it right away, and there is no way to disprove it unless they just admit to it
 
Some of the comments on twitter are actually mindboggling.

Do people not understand the difference between footballer contracts and having a normal job? All this talk of "tapping up" and "email blunders" is so fecking stupid it's hurting my brain. People get emails offering them jobs all the time. He didn't think to hide it because I'd say he never in a million years imagined the club could be this small time.

The other thing this whole episode proves is the ease with which these oil clubs can use puppets in the media to set their agenda. The Saudi's aren't as subtle as City were, but it's the same playbook and I don't blame Freedman for seeing what's gone on in the last 48 hours and thinking to himself "feck that".

What Newcastle are failing to realise is that the guys in these positions around the game all know each other, they know what calibre of a person Ashworth is and when they see hacks being spoonfed vitriol to tarnish his image, they'll obviously expect the same treatment if things don't go their way down the line.
 
It seems as if Newcastle is briefing this journo from the Times. Lots coming out all of a sudden.

Hope all can be resolved asap so we the club(s) can move forward!
 
diarm said:
Some of the comments on twitter are actually mindboggling.

Do people not understand the difference between footballer contracts and having a normal job? All this talk of "tapping up" and "email blunders" is so fecking stupid it's hurting my brain. People get emails offering them jobs all the time. He didn't think to hide it because I'd imagine he never in a million years imagined the club could be this small time.

The other thing this whole episode proves is the ease with which these oil clubs can use puppets in the media to set their agenda. The Saudi's aren't as subtle as City were, but it's the same playbook and I don't blame Freedman for seeing what's gone on in the last 48 hours and thinking to himself "feck that".

What Newcastle are failing to realise is that the guys in these positions around the game all know each other, they know what calibre of a person Ashworth is and when they see hacks being spoonfed vitriol to tarnish his image, they'll obviously expect the same treatment if things don't go their way down the line.
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If he never in a million years thought to hide the leaking of confidential information to a rival then god help us!

But I agree with a lot of what you wrote especially the last paragraph. There's a way of going about things at this level and if you feck around too much it comes back to hurt you, for sure.
 
diarm said:
Some of the comments on twitter are actually mindboggling.

Do people not understand the difference between footballer contracts and having a normal job? All this talk of "tapping up" and "email blunders" is so fecking stupid it's hurting my brain. People get emails offering them jobs all the time. He didn't think to hide it because I'd say he never in a million years imagined the club could be this small time.

The other thing this whole episode proves is the ease with which these oil clubs can use puppets in the media to set their agenda. The Saudi's aren't as subtle as City were, but it's the same playbook and I don't blame Freedman for seeing what's gone on in the last 48 hours and thinking to himself "feck that".

What Newcastle are failing to realise is that the guys in these positions around the game all know each other, they know what calibre of a person Ashworth is and when they see hacks being spoonfed vitriol to tarnish his image, they'll obviously expect the same treatment if things don't go their way down the line.
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What do you mean “the club” it was Ashworth’s feck up if I’m reading the reports correctly. Trying to school everyone on it and you’ve got it wrong yourself.
 
Newcastle fans are coming out with some great stuff

I work closely with a large London law firm and often engage with a Barrister who specialises in employment and sports cases. We were chatting about this today, and they aren’t close to the detail on this, but they mentioned that proving an employee on Garden Leave has performed duties for the new employer could open the door to a Springboard Injunction which could extend the garden leave even further to account for the period of time the employee breached their terms. The probably haven’t proven he’s worked for them (yet)…but could be interesting.
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Springboard injunction, you'll never sing that...
 
UnitedSofa said:
What do you mean “the club” it was Ashworth’s feck up if I’m reading the reports correctly. Trying to school everyone on it and you’ve got it wrong yourself.
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means Newcastle being small-time by dragging it up

but he was the one who took it to arbitration so.. not really sure why he wouldn't expect them to check his emails
 
Tarrou said:
If he never in a million years thought to hide the leaking of confidential information to a rival then god help us!

But I agree with a lot of what you wrote especially the last paragraph. There's a way of going about things at this level and if you feck around too much it comes back to hurt you, for sure.
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What confidential information did he leak?

Take a step back, stop reading words written by Craig Hope and Luke Edwards as fact, and try to consider the situation critically. Ask yourself what happened.
 
diarm said:
What confidential information did he leak?

Take a step back, stop reading words written by Craig Hope and Luke Edwards as fact, and try to consider the situation critically. Ask yourself what happened.
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Compensation to Brighton
 
UnitedSofa said:
What do you mean “the club” it was Ashworth’s feck up if I’m reading the reports correctly. Trying to school everyone on it and you’ve got it wrong yourself.
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What feck up?

Receiving an email about a job? Replying that he would be interested?

This is the real world - he isn't a footballer who has a registration to play that is owned by the club he is currently contracted to. He has a job and can speak to whomever he wishes should he intend to leave that job and take another role. Yes there will be terms of his contract that he (and his employer) will have to meet, but he isn't enslaved to their employment.

Newcastles pair of shameless hand puppets are attempting to whip basic, everyday stuff into some sort of sensational drama. Stop taking their bait.
 
Berbaclass said:
Compensation to Brighton
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Firstly we don't know that he did share anything confidential - we only have one of their stooges in the Daily Mail alluding to "a likely breach of confidentiality". I am not convinced that would fall under classified information when it pertains to him and his employment history personally.
 
diarm said:
Firstly we don't know that he did share anything confidential, we only have one of their stooges in the Daily Mail alluding to "a likely breach of confidentiality". I am not convinced that would fall under classified information when it pertains to him and his employment history personally.
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I'm referring to Dan Sheldon's article in The Athletic:

The email, which was discovered during Newcastle’s preparation for the arbitration case, also included confidential information on the package paid to facilitate Ashworth’s move from Brighton to Newcastle.
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Compensation paid to release an employee from previous job can be revealed as it helps future employers to know what financial package they need to get that employee.
 
diarm said:
What confidential information did he leak?

Take a step back, stop reading words written by Craig Hope and Luke Edwards as fact, and try to consider the situation critically. Ask yourself what happened.
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"Confidential information on the package paid to facilitate Ashworth’s move from Brighton to Newcastle"

I'm just discussing the report at face value, it goes without saying it could be made up. Given the potentially libellous nature of the report I'd say it probably isn't.
 
diarm said:
I hadn't seen that sorry. I still think that would be difficult to claim as a breach of confidentiality.
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I agree, I think the majority is just hot air from Newcastle as they think they might have fecked up:

According to people briefed on the matter, Ashworth believes Newcastle’s handling of his departure makes his gardening leave null and void.

The 53-year-old was placed on gardening leave in February after the Tyneside club learned he wished to explore the opportunity to become sporting director at Old Trafford but, he says, before he formally told them.

Manchester United are supporting Ashworth’s bid to be released from his present contract and are set to argue that Newcastle acted prematurely by putting him on gardening leave before he was asked to provide a letter of resignation.
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Tarrou said:
"Confidential information on the package paid to facilitate Ashworth’s move from Brighton to Newcastle"

I'm just discussing the report at face value, it goes without saying it could be made up. Given the potentially libellous nature of the report I'd say it probably isn't.
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Yeah sorry, I hadn't seen that in the Athletic piece - that does give it a bit more weight than the Hope and Edwards guff. But the source is still going to be someone at Newcastle who is butthurt and lashing out threats.

If they were so secure in their belief that they have him bang to rights, they would simply go along with the arbitration and bury him. The fact all this shit is being flung at the walls ahead of arbitration screams desperation to me.
 
diarm said:
Yeah sorry, I hadn't seen that in the Athletic piece - that does give it a bit more weight than the Hope and Edwards guff. But the source is still going to be someone at Newcastle who is butthurt and lashing out threats.

If they were so secure in their belief that they have him bang to rights, they would simply go along with the arbitration and bury him. The fact all this shit is being flung at the walls ahead of arbitration screams desperation to me.
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Totally agree yes. There would be absolutely no need for any of this. Makes them look incredibly transparent.
 
diarm said:
Yeah sorry, I hadn't seen that in the Athletic piece - that does give it a bit more weight than the Hope and Edwards guff. But the source is still going to be someone at Newcastle who is butthurt and lashing out threats.

If they were so secure in their belief that they have him bang to rights, they would simply go along with the arbitration and bury him. The fact all this shit is being flung at the walls ahead of arbitration screams desperation to me.
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Yeah, this getting leaked is unprofessional on their part, feels like something Woody would do. I don't think it's a good idea at all.

They want him on gardening leave until the end of 2025 which is utterly ridiculous too. United are probably confident that is unenforceable and therefore happy to go to arbitration.
 
Tarrou said:
Yeah, this getting leaked is very unprofessional on their part. I don't think it's a good idea at all.

They want him on gardening leave until the end of 2025 which is utterly ridiculous too. United are probably confident that is unenforceable and therefore happy to go to arbitration.
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That's it. Newcastle fans seem to be harbouring under the illusion they will be getting millions and preventing him from taking the job til they say so. It's either or lads. An independent adjudicator is going to say you can ask a fair amount as compensation for him to start immediately, or you can receive no money and prevent him from starting for a period of time that isn't going to prove detrimental to his future career. I'd be stunned if that period of time stretched to any further than 6 months from the date he was placed on GL.

Any lawyer worth his salt is going to point to the fast changing landscape of the industry and show how gardening leave of a year or more poses an unreasonable impediment to his career progression.

Of course all this is moot if Newcastle have messed up and placed him on gardening leave before he had formally resigned. It will be quite funny if they end up with nothing but egg on their face, only because they were too proud and thin skinned to accept the earlier offer and deal with the situation like grown ups.
 
Dougie Freedman, set to sign new deal at Crystal Palace and staying as director despite Newcastle interest — as called by
@ed_aarons . He’s already working on first signing, Chadi Riad from Betis. #CPFC showing ambition again after rejecting any approach for Glasner. - By Fabrizio Romano

Oh, music to my ears. Suck it, Newcastle Fans. I know you are reading this.
 
The Newcastle lads think we think we're the victims.

They don't even realise they're the victim. They are currently paying their Director of Football not to direct football for them and the guy they want from Crystal Palace to replace him doesn't want them either. They're seething at the idea someone would want to leave them for a bigger job, but at the same time have convinced themselves that they're winning.

It's fascinating to watch.
 
It would be nice to have Ashworth already at the club but it's no big deal if he starts at a later date.

And Dougie Freedman has never been a head of recruitment, so I'm not sure why some want him at the club in such a capacity. It would also be taking a step down from a DoF role to one where you're then reporting to a DoF. The experienced heads of recruitment are people like Lee Dykes (Brentford) who I think we should target if we're looking for a head of recruitment. Dykes is far more qualified in such a position than someone like Freedman. Again, it's the media who can't differentiate between the roles and hence confuse football fans.

And if I'm a DoF and Newcastle approach me, I likely don't take up the offer due to Eddie Howe and Steve Nickson having far too much control when it comes to transfers. Ashworth according to reports wasn't part of the inner circle at Newcastle and was just there to fill a position without having much authority. So I think that's the reason Freedman turns the offer down due to having a lack of influence.
 
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Real small time stuff from the Saudis, especially after doing the exact same thing when he was at Brighton. You keep paying someone millions to not work for you while expecting millions on millions though.

Bit funny how Freedman rejected them.
 
Cassidy said:
Its been reported he sent information on the compensation negotiations and payments between Newcastle and Brighton which took him to Newcastle. information which was not public, had I done this in my job I would be in breach of my contract and competition clause would be invoked.
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Couldn't he argue that he was a key part of that information too since it involved him and therefore not entirely the property of Newcastle/Brighton?
 
Tarrou said:
How could you prove they weren't aware of it? He sent the email. They have access to his email. The email broke the contract.

Where exactly do you go from there? It's watertight.
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The fact that they didn't take any disciplinary action then on account of that email, if they knew about it they should have charged him and proceeded to report him and us. Another factor is he informed them about his intentions, hoping for a mature conclusion and they became petty and vindictive.

There is also the issue about how Howe effective confirmed that he wasn't important to their operations so he could argue he had no secrets to share and he wasn't getting the chance to work as he was promised since he was being shut out by Howe and his cronies. All of these add up to constructive dismissal.
 
I'm just wondering how real is the story about the compensation disclosed through NUFC email ID. Are the Saudis doing a smear job just cause they see they don't have a leg to stand on? Is this new way of doing business? Its so obvious. Big fish always eats small one. NUFC will get eaten by United whenever they wish. Similarly if RM come calling for a United player, they will eat us alive. It's just how it is.
 
Berbaclass said:
Fecking idiots :lol:

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Newcastle need to remember that they are...well...fecking Newcastle.

If it was real madrid or united doing something like this, yeah it's gonna look bad, but it's not gonna turn people off wanting to go there because these are still some of the biggest jobs around. Newcastle don't have pull like that, so they have no basis to attempt to dick swing like this, because it will put people off wanting to go there.
 
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