I can see where you're going with this, and that's anachronistic to say the least. You do not justify a place in the starting 11 of a top team just by being very good defensively, the rest being kind of a bonus. There is no top team who plays with FBs of that description. Even if AWB was a top-notch defensive player, which he isn't.
Dalot vs Wan-Bissaka
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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I can see where you're going with this, and that's anachronistic to say the least. You do not justify a place in the starting 11 of a top team just by being very good defensively, the rest being kind of a bonus. There is no top team who plays with FBs of that description. Even if AWB was a top-notch defensive player, which he isn't.
The thing about AWB is that he isn't a natural defender getting gradually to terms with the attacking side of the game, he's pretty much the opposite - at least if by "natural" one means the roles he used to play up until he was, what, 18? 19?
I remember reading an interview with a Palace coach who described him during the time when he first began playing RB: he basically had no defensive game at all apart from his remarkable tackling ability, which was natural (he's said himself that he can't explain it - it was something he just had/did, he never focused on anything defensive, the player he tried to emulate as a youngster was Ronaldinho!), not a result of coaching at all.
He's a bit of an add one, in other words: not a standard development at all.
I remember reading an interview with a Palace coach who described him during the time when he first began playing RB: he basically had no defensive game at all apart from his remarkable tackling ability, which was natural (he's said himself that he can't explain it - it was something he just had/did, he never focused on anything defensive, the player he tried to emulate as a youngster was Ronaldinho!), not a result of coaching at all.
He's a bit of an add one, in other words: not a standard development at all.
Not at present, I should add. Dalot was beginning to look quite a bit like he might be, before getting injured right after the world cup. But he has not been nearly as good since returning.
They might both be backups, but in that case Malacia's out, and Dalot is better on the right than he is on the left.
If it was one or another I’d keep Dalot I think his ceiling is still extremely high.
Utter bullshit.
Arguably the best team in the world don’t play with a single fullback anymore and play with 4 CBs instead.
Weird you mention Arsenal given Brighton were able to spend plenty of time camped in their half when last they met. By your own logic, the only fullbacks in the league any good on the ball are Veltman and Estupian. Can see why Pep dropped all of his.
I do broadly agree that he's yet to prove he can be any more than a squad option for a top side. But he is quite obviously improving as an all-round player under Ten Hag.
Dalot may or may not have higher ceiling than Wan Bissaka but he is certainly more suited to the team who wants to play on front foot when in form .
I agree with this, plus his ability to cover both sides is a bonus in terms of the squad game. Buy a right back for the money we get for AWG and we’ll be sorted for the full-back positions until Shaw retires or declines (assuming Dalot renews his contract).
That being said, AWB has come on leaps and bounds and I’ll hold my hands up and admit that I never saw that coming. I thought he was utterly uncoachable, turns out it was a case of Ole and the boys just not bothering to coach him, like we suspected.
And Mazroui played for Ajax under Ten Hag
Utter bullshit.
Arguably the best team in the world don’t play with a single fullback anymore and play with 4 CBs instead.
Right. You're arguing City's FBs have purely defensive responsibilities?
They have CB’s playing inverted fullbacks which make them exceptionally hard to beat defensively whilst they are great at making passes - all the whilst not playing crosses like Frimpong or whoever you want.
And your arguing that AWB has purely defensive abilities here at United?
Again,
I don’t give a shit what you think - because your like Southgate, who will pick TAA or Frimpong against players like Mbappe, Mitoma , Saint Maximin, Neymar and watch them get bullied the whole match when there is a fullback who has proven to contain world class LW’s on top of their form.
If you don’t find that useful even as a squad option then that’s why your not a football manager.
Literally Ten Hag has every LB available to him in Shaw, Malacia and Dalot but has constantly picked AWB as his RB whilst changing his LB routinely.
If you don’t rate him fine, that’s your footballing brain - Ten Hag clearly rates him.
He talks about him after Burnley, after Sevilla first round, before the first game vs Arsenal etc.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t go for our attacking RB version of Frimpong or TAA or whoever you are craving - but then letting go a defensive fullback who has a complete opposite game to an attacking fullback is just utter bullshit.
That’s not how you build a squad.
You don’t have 4 strikers and have them all playing like Yorke. You build a squad with Yorke, Cole, Ole & Sheringham - very different type of strikers.
The same with City - Haaland & Alvarez are two different type of strikers used in different ways and times against different opposition.
If you want to keep Dalot who is weak defensively and then go for an attacking RB on top then that’s how you view football I guess.
Dalot at LB is better than Malacia & arguably better than Dalot at RB aswell so I don’t think this will be a problem anyway.
What is fact everytime there is a media love in with the attacking left player of the position team AWB / Antony neutralises him. AWB was very good yesterday at his job Mitoma was basically anonymous.
They're both similar in overall quality. Awb a better ball carrier and one on one defender. Dalot better passer, more versatile and better in the air.
I think both can be improved upon but it's not a position we need to be prioritising over GK, CM or a striker.
I think both can be improved upon but it's not a position we need to be prioritising over GK, CM or a striker.
Right, you "don't give a shit what I think" because apparently I'm "like Southgate". Before going on to take issue with arguments that have only been made in your own imagination. By, among other things, noting what you seem to think is Gareth Southgates notorious preference for picking offensive full backs. Like TAA, who just keeps getting selected for England no matter what. He must have, what, 50 caps by now?
But never mind. You have a nice day, mate.
Could Dalot shift to a DM type player?
That's your perspective. You guys are okay with showering him with shit, I'm doing the opposite and actually praising the abilities he has shown. Tell me a better defender one on one in the world?
Varane doesn't have the same passing skills as Martinez, should we bin him as well?
Learn to appreciate what you have as AWB is a beast and can only improve still and I back him to be our number 1 RB for years.
I have no idea why more people aren't seeing this
And yet TAA has made a living and reached the highest echelons of the game by being extremely good at one thing while being wank at the other (defense, which should be his main priority) but sure AWB is a dinosaur
And AWB isn't as bad going forward as TAA is at defending and yet he had the world creaming for him for years before this wank season
I'll take AWB over TAA and most other RBs in the world without blinking an eye
Utter bullshit.
Arguably the best team in the world don’t play with a single fullback anymore and play with 4 CBs instead.
Gbam!
This post should be pinned to the top of each page of this thread so people can hopefully learn why AWB fans are on the rise
Or maybe we should, you know, consider a full back who does well defensively and offensively? Like Luke Shaw does? Or Reece James? Or Oleksandr Zinchenko? If you guys could take the hysteria down a couple of notches, and stop telling yourselves that there's a choice between being good at defense OR offense, that the former is the big thing and that anyone not sold on AWB as a first-11 option must want someone like TAA instead?
Also, AWB is not even "extremely good" at defending. He's just very good in one-on-one duels, which is more than can be said for his positioning and decision-making.
How do we think Dalot would get on playing LWB against Wan Bissaka?
We think the following:
- Literally never seen Dalot play LWB, so who knows
- Depends on the composition and style of the rest of his team
- Depends on the composition and style of AWBs team
- How exactly does that matter, anyway?
Why do you say that? His crossing and passing have not been any better
Dalot passing quality and ball progression was better than Wan Bissaka when he was in form and crossing wise Wan Bissaka is actually better .
It just interests me. What skill set does Dalot possess that would help him get the better of AWB. I really don’t think the season as a contest between the two has been much of one. AWB is just a better right back, and Dalot the useful squad option.
I wouldn't go that far. At his best, before the World Cup, I think Dalot was better. But season seen as a whole, AWB has done well and there's not much to separate them. The main point however is that neither of them look like a sure thing going forward - we could probably make do for another season, but ultimately and if neither of them develop significantly beyond where they are now, this will be an obvious position for upgrade.
Not sure I’d agree with that, AWB has always been better at carrying the ball forward
mine thing people forget is that for a long time there was no right winger as such
Dalot's passing certainly was better. Obviously his from dropped off significantly after the World Cup, but before that he was doing well both at passing forwards through the line or making cross field passes to spread the play. He has a much greater range of passing, while AWB really only makes short passes to players around him. Which actually isn't too bad in the right set-up, but it is limiting.
Crossing I'll agree with. Dalot puts a better shape on his crosses but the power he uses is all over the place. It's why when he gets it right his crosses tend to be really good, but the vast majority of them end up being overhit. AWB is actually better at getting the cross in the right area more consistently.
I’m sure we could improve on AWB / Dalot at right back, but it’s a little way down quite a big priority list after striker, two central midfielders, goalkeeper and CB and it’s just whether we get to a lower priority position in what is already due to be a busy window (hopefully). Similarly with left back really.
I’d agree with that. I think the passing limitation is less of a problem now since he’s coming infield more
Neither player is useless, both players can still improve under ETH. Keep 'em both for the time being, re-assess after next season.
This.
AWB last night was unplayable, great at carrying the ball forward, cancelling out their threat and had Antony for cover/attacking threat.
We haven't had a RW for so long that it was a requirement of the RB to be great attacking & defending, with Antony that pressure is relieved of AWB so he can shut out attacks and transition us into attack, something he is superior than Dalot at doing.
I think Dalot is the player we should upgrade unless we use him as LB cover.
Keep both and use the Frimpong money on replacing De Gea.
Possibly the strangest definition of unplayable I've ever heard.
If it can be used in an attacking sense then why not in a defensive sense? There isn't a RB in Football I'd of swapped in for him last night
Its now going like I had envisaged since we added AWB to Dalot. Both are developing both sides of their gane steadily and are getting more consistent. Even better Luke Shaw is now a competent center half, an Dalot has proven he is a competent left back. So we can still add to the squad an uber attacking right back and keep both these two.
Not even one who could attempt a cross? He only made two tackles the entire game
The reality is he had very little to do yesterday, what he had to do he did well, but "unplayable" is ridiculous hyperbole. I thought Dalot handled his defensive efforts better if I'm honest, especially considering he didn't have a defensively sound winger covering for him and a defensive midfielder playing on his side of the pitch. March is a much more dangerous 1v1 winger than Mitoma too.
I'm not sure AWB gets the credit he deserves. LW is one of the most important positions on the pitch, and typically you break the bank for top performers. AWB is in a lot of peoples opinion, the best in the world at nullifying the dangerous players who play there. Grealish, Martinelli, Jota/Diaz, Mudryk/Sterling, Son, Saint Maximin, Zaha, Mitoma, Zaha, Barnes,... I mean you're talking at least half the league where one of the teams more threatening patterns of attack come down the left side, and we have comfortably the best player in the league to deal with them. For me, we develop his attacking game as much as possible and just settle with him being our starting RB.
Not even one who could attempt a cross? He only made two tackles the entire game
I thought Dalot handled his defensive efforts better if I'm honest, especially considering he didn't have a defensively sound winger covering for him and a defensive midfielder playing on his side of the pitch. March is a much more dangerous 1v1 winger than Mitoma too.
Hyperbole on your part maybe. If March played LW he'd of had as much success as Mitoma.
Bissaka had 2 more tackles than Dalot all game, if I remember correctly it was Shaw covering the defending on that side more often than Dalot.
If you can't see he's one of, if not the best defensive full back in football at the moment then there's no need for further discussion as the stats speak for themselves.