Dalot vs Wan-Bissaka

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yfoFC said:
That's your perspective. You guys are okay with showering him with shit, I'm doing the opposite and actually praising the abilities he has shown. Tell me a better defender one on one in the world?

Varane doesn't have the same passing skills as Martinez, should we bin him as well?

Learn to appreciate what you have as AWB is a beast and can only improve still and I back him to be our number 1 RB for years.
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Except I’m not showering him with shit but assessing him as he deserved. Praise for his uptick in form and acknowledging that he is not suited to a top team due to his lack of qualities on the ball. I’d rather be balanced in my view than blindly backing him to be number 1 while we never challenge for the next decade.

Varane is much better on the ball relative to his position as compare to Awb. And the fullback position in today’s day and age has a very high onus to create and run the game from the flanks.
 
ClassOf'99 said:


Hyperbole on your part maybe. If March played LW he'd of had as much success as Mitoma.

Bissaka had 2 more tackles than Dalot all game, if I remember correctly it was Shaw covering the defending on that side more often than Dalot.

If you can't see he's one of, if not the best defensive full back in football at the moment then there's no need for further discussion as the stats speak for themselves.
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One on one he deserves all the praise in the world. I’d fancy him against pretty much anyone in that regard except the all time great dribblers like peak Messi.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
One on one he deserves all the praise in the world. I’d fancy him against pretty much anyone in that regard except the all time great dribblers like peak Messi.
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For this reason alone I think he deserves to stay and fight for his place as the transformation we've seen from him this season alone should worth another season to assess.

All for getting a better attacking RB for games were it's needed and keeping AWB for games against teams where defensive work takes priority i.e. against top 4 opponents/Champions League calibre etc.
 
ClassOf'99 said:


Hyperbole on your part maybe. If March played LW he'd of had as much success as Mitoma.

Bissaka had 2 more tackles than Dalot all game, if I remember correctly it was Shaw covering the defending on that side more often than Dalot.

If you can't see he's one of, if not the best defensive full back in football at the moment then there's no need for further discussion as the stats speak for themselves.
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March has consistently been the bigger creative threat for Brighton this season, even more so since the new manager came in.

AWB had Lindelof, putting in his best performance of the season alongside him, Antony doing his best workhorse impression in front and Casemiro covering the space in front. He'll likely never play a game where he was more protected. To call all that "unstoppable" is nonsense, he had very little to do. He did that well, but he was also a complete non-entity going forward.

Being a great 1v1 defender doesn't make you the best defensive fullback in the league. AWB's positioning is incredibly suspect and it's part of the reason he's targeted on the back post, like he was against Leipzig. He is an exceptional tackler though.
 
It is great that Dalot is so versatile as he would be our second best LB behind Luke and it gives our whole backline versatility and it is something we definitely need given the fragility of some.
 
ClassOf'99 said:


Hyperbole on your part maybe. If March played LW he'd of had as much success as Mitoma.

Bissaka had 2 more tackles than Dalot all game, if I remember correctly it was Shaw covering the defending on that side more often than Dalot.

If you can't see he's one of, if not the best defensive full back in football at the moment then there's no need for further discussion as the stats speak for themselves.
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Alternatively you can just watch AWB to see the huge improvements he has made this season. The last few times I've watched him he's put in a really top class performance. Dalot is a pretty damn decent player too, for the most part. I don't want to use too many superlatives in relaiton to AWB -- maybe this won't last. But if it does, great. I think it goes beyond tackling, too. Of late his positioning and forward moving has been good, and includes some really nice technical play. I must confess, I did not think he had these capacities in him. It's a credit to both the coaching and AWB's willingness to apply himself and learn. Very encouraging.
 
They're both making good cases to stay though I think EtH wants an aggressive attacking right back which neither of them are. A possible solution would be to send Malacia on a loan, leave AWB and the new RB to fight it out for that spot and keep Shaw and Dalot on the left.

Not heard much about Dalot's contract situation lately.
 
We are not prime Barcelona, RM or City, where we have 2 great players in every position.

We have many more pressing positions to fill. We desperately need 2 strikers, 2 midfielders and GK. RB can be considered very low priority to upgrade.

AWB and Dalot are very good fullbacks and they are still developing. Both of them should stay for squad depth.

Maybe in ETH third season and when we have been bought by Qatar with bottomless cash then we may consider to buy a world class RB which cost about 60-80M.
 
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This half has been a good example about what I was talking about AWB has positionally been all over and all Spurs' joy has come down our right side. It's all well and good being unbeatable 1v1, but you have to be in position to defend in the first place.
 
Didn't have a good game today but we cannot completely discount the game on Sunday. Just look at what happened to Brighton and they played Notts Forest, not Spuds.
 
Rightnr said:
Didn't have a good game today but we cannot completely discount the game on Sunday. Just look at what happened to Brighton and they played Notts Forest, not Spuds.
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I've defended AWB on this thread and said the club should keep him, but that performance last night was indefensible.

He was good v Brighton. I think that was the type of game which plays to his strengths, when the other team is dominating possession and we're sitting deep, and all he has to concentrate on is nullifying his direct opponent.

But in a game where we have majority possession and he's expected to get forward more, his positional sense gets thrown all over the shop. At times last night, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was his first ever game at right back.
 
hobbers said:
The rank laziness and brainlessness we saw today was as bad as it's ever been with AWB.

Then Dalot swaps over and is almost as useless and miles out of position for their second goal.

Both miles out their depth at this club.
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It's a collective mess up. The greater portion lies with Shaw. Shaw was slow to move up the pitch after DDG's kick. That meant Kane had all the time in the world, and Son is nicely unmarked.

Dalot did not really get himself out of position.What happened in the sequence leading to this was: Bruno tackled. Dalot dispossessed Son, got the ball and passed to Casemiro. Casemiro passed forward but blocked by Son (Casemiro's fault). The ball fell to Shaw who backpassed to DDG. The issue here is Shaw was on our right side, ran backward when DDG kicking it long: making us disorganized at the back. The distance between positions are poor. In that sequence, Dalot was not supposed to run back.

Shaw created a one man defense situation. Even when Lindelof adjusted it is still only two men defense line, with Son unmarked with acres of space. Ideally Shaw should have pushed up and be on his LCB zone after the backpass to DDG. That would have allowed an offside trap to slow Son run, allowing Dalot to recover some space.

Dalot actually secured our right side after AwB sub. Tottenham stopped having situation where they unchallengedly crossed the ball from our right side.

George Owen said:
Malacia being made the scapegoat again for the goal.

What was Shaw doing marking an offside player?

He should have pushed forward quickly into his man (Kane) instead of staying at his usual non alert bad positioning.

Malacia was pushing forward to get close to his man.

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Rightnr said:
Didn't have a good game today but we cannot completely discount the game on Sunday. Just look at what happened to Brighton and they played Notts Forest, not Spuds.
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Nobody is saying discount the game against Brighton. But consider a large enough sample of Awbs performance and it’s evidently clear that he doesn’t have the necessary ability on the ball. It’s all well and good to celebrate his one on one defending but top teams demand more from their fullbacks on the ball. In fact you tend not be a top team if you have such limited footballers in your starting line up. As I’ve said before - decent squad player but we need an upgrade.
 
As I've said in this thread: you want your full-backs to have a base level of 7/10. Having better games than that is great, but the staple should be a dependable 7 game in, game out.

Our fullbacks oscillate from good games to deplorable ones, which is why they are not starters at a club with genuine title aspirations and both need upgrading upon as a starting player in an xi.

As backups, what they offer is OK, but not as starters.
 
hobbers said:
The rank laziness and brainlessness we saw today was as bad as it's ever been with AWB.

Then Dalot swaps over and is almost as useless and miles out of position for their second goal.

Both miles out their depth at this club.
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Shouldn't be any doubt about that.

They are both not good enough in general defensively, although Wan Bissaka can tackle, positioning and awareness are qualities they just do not possess.

Going forward they offer nothing, Dalot is better on the ball, that's about the only thing he has over AWB.

Ideally both need to go.
 
Sad to say it was a shocking performance from both AWB and Dalot. Having said that it's a team game. The entire team was very bad 2nd half vs Spurs.

Both need to improve but still RB is a position not urgently need to upgrade. We are not Many City with bottomless cash. We need to be sensible and focus on other more pressing positions.
 
Vernon Philander said:
Dalot pitching his flag on AWB’s turf

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I don’t really understand what the ‘personal duel’ stat means, but I feel that any stat that says Dalot is the best RB in the league is probably a bit suspect, given he only really performed well for a couple of months before the World Cup. He wasn’t even the best RB in our squad for half the season.
 
I still think it's a mistake going into another season with these two as our options. I get it we had much more pressing options, but I still think both are underwhelming and a level below what we need.

Hopefully I end up eating the most humble of pie!
 
Judas said:
I still think it's a mistake going into another season with these two as our options. I get it we had much more pressing options, but I still think both are underwhelming and a level below what we need.

Hopefully I end up eating the most humble of pie!
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Personally agree. Gone under the radar, but neither are good enough long-term IMO.

Dalot still has more potential, because of his greater technical ability, but he has games where he makes such comical passing errors. And at this point, I think he is who he is. He was pretty good before the WC, but regressed heavily afterwards.

Wan Bissaka has those same comical errors too and despite his prowess in 1vs1 defending, I think his awareness in tracking runners or defending the back post is pretty substandard(to put it kindly). Also, he can be lazy at times.
 
Think we can definitely utilise both depending on the fixture. If we are inverting fullbacks to cover central areas defensively, it’s AWB. If we are utilizing width in the buildup to pull apart opposition, it’s Dalot.

Dalot has the edge, IMO, because he is better suited to a team like United who wants to attack. AWB is one of the best 1v1 defenders in the league but offering nothing towards attack. Guy can't even cross a ball. Can Ten Hag develop AWB to a centre back?
 
red.knight said:
Think we can definitely utilise both depending on the fixture. If we are inverting fullbacks to cover central areas defensively, it’s AWB. If we are utilizing width in the buildup to pull apart opposition, it’s Dalot.

Dalot has the edge, IMO, because he is better suited to a team like United who wants to attack. AWB is one of the best 1v1 defenders in the league but offering nothing towards attack. Guy can't even cross a ball. Can Ten Hag develop AWB to a centre back?
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His positioning is far too bad for him to be a CB, he’d be a disaster. Also you can’t have a CB relying on last ditch slide tackles.
 
Still maintain neither are good enough to start for a side with title aspirations and come next summer there will be few if any more obvious positions in the first eleven to strengthen.

Be interesting to see which (if either) wins out between the two this season and is the one who stays.

Personally I'd get rid of AWB as he is pretty clearly ill-suited to ETH's preferred mode of football, but I know some people value the idea of having a specialist 1-on-1 defender for certain games more than I do.
 
I think RB will be addressed by TH next season and it wouldnt surprise me to see both Dalot and WB leave. This is our weakest part of the pitch and doesnt help the RW much, not as much as Shaw on the left side.
 
sullydnl said:
Still maintain neither are good enough to start for a side with title aspirations and come next summer there will be few if any more obvious positions in the first eleven to strengthen.

Be interesting to see which (if either) wins out between the two this season and is the one who stays.

Personally I'd get rid of AWB as he is pretty clearly ill-suited to ETH's preferred mode of football, but I know some people value the idea of having a specialist 1-on-1 defender for certain games more than I do.
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Spot on. I expect we’ll bring in a right back next summer and Wan-Bissaka will leave.
 
red.knight said:
Think we can definitely utilise both depending on the fixture. If we are inverting fullbacks to cover central areas defensively, it’s AWB. If we are utilizing width in the buildup to pull apart opposition, it’s Dalot.

Dalot has the edge, IMO, because he is better suited to a team like United who wants to attack. AWB is one of the best 1v1 defenders in the league but offering nothing towards attack. Guy can't even cross a ball. Can Ten Hag develop AWB to a centre back?
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I don't think AWB offers nothing in attack. He offers little in the final third, from time to time good dribbles, runs and low crosses. But further back on the pitch he's a good progressor of the ball and lately surprisingly good in one touch play.
 
ArbeitervonWien said:
I don't think AWB offers nothing in attack. He offers little in the final third, from time to time good dribbles, runs and low crosses. But further back on the pitch he's a good progressor of the ball and lately surprisingly good in one touch play.
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I agree, and that's an under-recognised part of his game. Although you wonder how much that has to do with the tendency of opponents to not mark him.
 
justsomebloke said:
I agree, and that's an under-recognised part of his game. Although you wonder how much that has to do with the tendency of opponents to not mark him.
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That's a fair point. But the important thing is, that he is able to exploit the space the opponent gives him to progress the ball. And if they would mark him, it leaves space somewhere else.

Ideally we would have a more progressive RB, but in tandem with Dalot, I think it's just a minor weakness in the team. I'm quite happy with those two for the time beeing. They are both entering their prime, maybe one of them can turn into a great RB. Otherwise we can improve on them somewhere in the future, when we hopefully don't have bigger priorities anymore.
 
Sides that play modern football don't have fullbacks with the profile of AWB
 
Pre-WC Dalot was really good and if that form is back, then I don’t think there’s any doubt that he’ll start over AWB.
 
wolvored said:
I think RB will be addressed by TH next season and it wouldnt surprise me to see both Dalot and WB leave. This is our weakest part of the pitch and doesnt help the RW much, not as much as Shaw on the left side.
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Personally I think Malacia is the weakest of all our fullbacks. Dalot can cover both sides so we'd be better off replacing him instead if there's any interest.
 
The weak link. AWB is of a profile that is pretty much the opposite of what we need. Dalot is still neither here nor there, even if I think he could potentially become a good enough RB. Between them and Antony, our entire right side of the pitch is quite good defensively, but just so mediocre and sterile at anything else. This will be the position to address next summer.
 
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