Dalot vs Wan-Bissaka

Well...

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Fortitude said:
Posts in here would make you think we're looking at August '22 versions of these players and not the iterations they've become.

Lazy tropes being rolled out with little objective analysis.

At least acknowledge the changes and improvements that are going on throughout the season.
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Well, Dalot has been consistently impressive this seaon and is just recovering from an injury so its understandable if he's not been at 100%

AWB has been much better than expected but his limitations are still clear and he's the player that he is. Poor on the ball and dreadful with his positioning.

All in all, I'd say we need an upgrade for a starting RB, but these two have shown that they're good enough that it's no longer urgent to replace them. They've both proven they can be useful and I'm happy with that.
 
Has AWB played alongside Maguire this season?
 
AWB has his strengths. Dalot is painfully average at best all round.
 
AWB is the one to keep if we had to make the choice.
If we needed offence, there’s so many RB choices better than Dalot.
If we needed defence, there’s not many (or any) better than AWB.
 
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I think Wan Bissaka is better.

He is better at dribbling.
He is better at driving forward with the ball.
He is better at defending.
 
Awb the better choice for me. He is twice the defender Dalot is and his forward play hs improved.
 
Is there anyone who actually wants Dalot to start over Wan-Bissaka at Anfield on Sunday?
 
Neither fill me with much confidence but when their main responsibility is to defend then it has to be AWB. He is arguably the best one-on-one defender in the league. I think we are quite spoilt with Shaw being our left-back as he is good defensively and adds to our attacking play. There have been a couple of performances when I have seen AWB look comfortable and able to manipulate the ball to help him get out of tight situations. It is our passing out from the back that puts both of them in a position/feeling for us as fans that they are incapable. Dalot is a confidence player, whereas AWB is quietly confident and doesn't seem to let the occasion get to him as much. I think if Dalot was producing more going forward (assists) then you would see a better all-round game from him. It is literally a flip of coin with these two as to who starts on Sunday but with the pace up front Liverpool have and constant one-on-one situations we are likely to come up against with Salah and co, then AWB would be my preferred choice.
 
ZahaWilf said:
Neither fill me with much confidence but when their main responsibility is to defend then it has to be AWB. He is arguably the best one-on-one defender in the league. I think we are quite spoilt with Shaw being our left-back as he is good defensively and adds to our attacking play. There have been a couple of performances when I have seen AWB look comfortable and able to manipulate the ball to help him get out of tight situations. It is our passing out from the back that puts both of them in a position/feeling for us as fans that they are incapable. Dalot is a confidence player, whereas AWB is quietly confident and doesn't seem to let the occasion get to him as much. I think if Dalot was producing more going forward (assists) then you would see a better all-round game from him. It is literally a flip of coin with these two as to who starts on Sunday but with the pace up front Liverpool have and constant one-on-one situations we are likely to come up against with Salah and co, then AWB would be my preferred choice.
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Salah generally plays on the right so he'll be Shaw's concern
 
Red in STL said:
Salah generally plays on the right so he'll be Shaw's concern
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True. No doubt though that they will look to isolate our right-back with either Gakpo or Jota. Thankfully Luis Diaz is still out otherwise it would be even more of a worry for us.
 
ZahaWilf said:
True. No doubt though that they will look to isolate our right-back with either Gakpo or Jota. Thankfully Luis Diaz is still out otherwise it would be even more of a worry for us.
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I'm not worried, they have a RB that can't defend at all and a midfield that can't run and their CB's peromimng like our back ups
 
Red in STL said:
I'm not worried, they have a RB that can't defend at all and a midfield that can't run and their CB's peromimng like our back ups
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Admittedly they are shaky at the back and their midfield are getting on a bit but you just never know with them what they might produce, that is all I am saying. We have to start well that is key, silence the crowd a little and then impose ourselves on them. It is just our right-back area that I am most worried about, get that right and there should be no reason to have any concerns.
 
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To me AWB to start vs Liverpool. We need to defend well first and foremost. Liverpool will be playing like their cup final vs us. We usually do poorly at Anfield.

Start our best 11 and that include AWB at RB.
 
Fortitude said:
Posts in here would make you think we're looking at August '22 versions of these players and not the iterations they've become.

Lazy tropes being rolled out with little objective analysis.

At least acknowledge the changes and improvements that are going on throughout the season.
Click to expand...

It's generally acknowledged that they've both gotten slightly better, people will out one down because they prefer the other. Both still have major holes in their overall game.

I still maintain that neither of them is good enough and both need to be removed from the club and replaced.
 
Oranges038 said:
It's generally acknowledged that they've both gotten slightly better, people will out one down because they prefer the other. Both still have major holes in their overall game.

I still maintain that neither of them is good enough and both need to be removed from the club and replaced.
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But there's been more than a slight improvement in both of them. AWB was a complete write off at the start of the season and matched what are now lazy clichéd posts, since then, he's clearly taken the coaching on board and progressed a lot, relative to what he was. Does this mean he's now the full, polished article or not sometimes prone to the old errors and ways, no, but it does mean he's a lot more useful than he was expected to be on the offensive side of the halfway line. There's link up play, positional interchange and just an obviously coached, overall improvement that posters don't even seem to process in favour of remaining steadfast in a time piece that doesn't actually exist anymore, or certainly not in the manner nonchalantly/dismissively posted up.

I believe Dalot's injury has wrecked the season he was having, but the trajectory he himself was on is far removed from what it had been and yet posters type as though his good times or upswing never occurred, instead associating him purely with the player he was last season.

Ultimately, neither are what can be deemed elite full-backs, and it is fair to state that even their best form is that of an understudy to an elite RB, but simply playing down the progressions made and just time-locking them to the pre-coaching days makes it look like the posters doing so have simply written them off and therefore don't make any effort to observe ot credit them with anything.

It would be good to see discussion about the players they are now and not the players they were 5-6 months ago.

Incidentally, there are things AWB is better at than Dalot offensively, and ditto Dalot with AWB on the defensive end, so the blanket statements attached to them don't really tend to hold up to scrutiny anyway.
 
Fortitude said:
But there's been more than a slight improvement in both of them. AWB was a complete write off at the start of the season and matched what are now lazy clichéd posts, since then, he's clearly taken the coaching on board and progressed a lot, relative to what he was. Does this mean he's now the full, polished article or not sometimes prone to the old errors and ways, no, but it does mean he's a lot more useful than he was expected to be on the offensive side of the halfway line. There's link up play, positional interchange and just an obviously coached, overall improvement that posters don't even seem to process in favour of remaining steadfast in a time piece that doesn't actually exist anymore, or certainly not in the manner nonchalantly/dismissively posted up.

I believe Dalot's injury has wrecked the season he was having, but the trajectory he himself was on is far removed from what it had been and yet posters type as though his good times or upswing never occurred, instead associating him purely with the player he was last season.

Ultimately, neither are what can be deemed elite full-backs, and it is fair to state that even their best form is that of an understudy to an elite RB, but simply playing down the progressions made and just time-locking them to the pre-coaching days makes it look like the posters doing so have simply written them off and therefore don't make any effort to observe ot credit them with anything.

It would be good to see discussion about the players they are now and not the players they were 5-6 months ago.

Incidentally, there are things AWB is better at than Dalot offensively, and ditto Dalot with AWB on the defensive end, so the blanket statements attached to them don't really tend to hold up to scrutiny anyway.
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If you rolled them into one player you might have a decent full back.

There's been improvements, but I think it's fair to say all of the players have improved under ETH. As for these two, there's only so much that can be done with them, personally I think both just have too many glaring weaknesses in their games to ever make the step up to being considered a top class full back.

If you compared them to Shaw, I've been hugely critical of him in the past. But it was always clear he had the ability, it was the application that was questionable. How he's been playing is the standard you expect from both sides at full back. I don't think either are ever going to be anywhere near as good as Shaw. I don't even think they are good enough to be kept as backups to a better player.
 
AWB has many flaws in his game but he is still one of the best tacklers in the Premier League.

I genuinely have no idea what Dalot’s strength(s) are supposed to be.
 
Right now for the scouse game start AWB, long term I trust ETH to make the correct decision. It may well boil down to who are we offered money for in the summer as I suspect ETH may be back in for Timber come July.
 
Maybe yhe departure of ronaldo has hit dalot hard as he is the only one post world cup/ronaldo exit that has struggled
 
Surprised to see Dalot start today. Just goes to show who the manager rates.

I think AwB might be gone in the summer
 
I still think Dalot is better by a margin. When hes a bit rusty and has had a couple of shaky performances its much closer obviously. In this form you'd give Wan Bisakka the nod usually. He's earned it and has improved a fair bit. Think he's ultimately warming the seat for Dalot as his form has slipped a tiny bit in more recent games too.
Good competition between them though.
 
We always play badly at Anfield and needed to be solid defensively first and foremost. Somehow ETH started Dalot instead of AWB who is in good form and solid defensively. The first 2 goals involved mistakes from Dalot and our right side was left exposed. However, to be fair to Dalot the entire team played badly.
 
It's not like Wan Bissaka doesn't throw in some stinkers himself... however he's had some great games against top teams with sharp defending at a level Dalot can't reach for one-off games. Would have picked him.
 
Much prefer Dalot generally and if either of them leave this summer it will be AWB.

But AWB is simply in better form, so if you want to argue that he should have started today on that basis then I've no problem with that.

Ultimately though the correct answer is that it's an area we need to strengthen.
 
Oh, of course we have the dumb kneejerkers on here after the game.

Dalot was alright in the first half, maybe had one episode where he slept on the man behind him. But he had no help from Antony. He also had a few decent crosses for Bruno and Rashford.

Second half the whole team was trash and blaming Dalot for it is pathetic
 
Rightnr said:
Oh, of course we have the dumb kneejerkers on here after the game.

Dalot was alright in the first half, maybe had one episode where he slept on the man behind him. But he had no help from Antony. He also had a few decent crosses for Bruno and Rashford.

Second half the whole team was trash and blaming Dalot for it is pathetic
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It is not kneejerk to point out that AWB was playing his best football when Dalot was out and Dalot has been awful since returning from injury. I was shocked Dalot got the start midweek and totally fecking mystified today. Dalot has been largely shit ever since we bought him but showed signs of putting it together before the world cup, sadly he has regressed horribly since coming back from Qatar to the point where we no longer need to think about finding competition for him but are back to needing a starting RB in the summer because we don't have one in the squad right now. I am not a big AWB fan but on current form it was a stupid decision not to start him today and it blew up in our faces big time.
 
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The forum flits between asking why the other didn’t play/isn’t playing whenever either turns in a poor performance but the reality is that neither can be relied upon to be where we want to be and competing as both are prone to lapses in concentration, switching off and poor positioning.
 
Rightnr said:
Oh, of course we have the dumb kneejerkers on here after the game.

Dalot was alright in the first half, maybe had one episode where he slept on the man behind him. But he had no help from Antony. He also had a few decent crosses for Bruno and Rashford.

Second half the whole team was trash and blaming Dalot for it is pathetic
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He wasn't the worst player out there for us but he was shit today, shit v West Ham and shit v Newcastle.
 
It’s much of a muchness at this point, we need a new starting RB whichever way you look at it
 
Sell Awb. Get a new RB. Dalot 2nd choice.

Been saying to his for ages. Dalot’s decent patches fooled people into thinking he’s too class whereas he’s not. He’s a decent player who can be very good in phases.
 
Gandalf said:
It is not kneejerk to point out that AWB was playing his best football when Dalot was out and Dalot has been awful since returning from injury. I was shocked Dalot got the start midweek and totally fecking mystified today. Dalot has been largely shit ever since we bought him but showed signs of putting it together before the world cup, sadly he has regressed horribly since coming back from Qatar to the point where we no longer need to think about finding competition for him but are back to needing a starting RB in the summer because we don't have one in the squad right now. I am not a big AWB fan but on current form it was a stupid decision not to start him today and it blew up in our faces big time.
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Agreed
 
Neither of these two players are good enough if we are serious about being a title challenger next year.

AWB is the better defender but he can't pass or cross to save his life. Dalot started the season fairly well but he's been awful since the world cup.

We need a new right back
 
Rightnr said:
Oh, of course we have the dumb kneejerkers on here after the game.

Dalot was alright in the first half, maybe had one episode where he slept on the man behind him. But he had no help from Antony. He also had a few decent crosses for Bruno and Rashford.

Second half the whole team was trash and blaming Dalot for it is pathetic
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Our fullbacks never get help from our wingers. Tends to be Fred/Casemiro/McTom that help. Its the same when AWB plays
 
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