Or he could just do what loads of managers in world football are made to do, and just get on with the players that he has. There is a massive amount of middle ground between “back him” or “sack him” which is where most of the football world dwells.
D. McDonnell - the Mirror: Jose will be sacked this weekend | BBC: Jose still has board backing
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Or he could just do what loads of managers in world football are made to do, and just get on with the players that he has. There is a massive amount of middle ground between “back him” or “sack him” which is where most of the football world dwells.
I'm not arguing against the Jose sack anymore. I'm just saying that Ed Woodward shouldn't have a say on the footballing matters and we need a Dof.
I don't think this is true?
What gives Ed the power to judge Toby as our joint fourth best CB? What gives him the balls to save the money in case Varane becomes available? If we want to become AC Milan then yes, it happens at other clubs.
Delegate the budget but he hasn't got a clue about players abilities etc which is the problem we have here.
Who gets the blame for Fred? How far down the list did Ed get to approve that one?
3 managers have complained about how our transfer policy is applied, does it need to reach 4 or 5 before we question it?
This. The "back him or sack him" argument was always a cop out.
And Mourinho rated and probably still rates both of them.
I'd definitely like to see a DoF come in with the new manager - even better if they already have a working relationship eg Marotta-Conte or Mitchell-Pochettino.
Need to get Woodward away from the football side of the club.
To add to the lists of cop outs (and this one isn’t exclusive to Mourinho), United is the only club where a manager needs at least 3 years and a billion pounds to stamp his authority on the squad before the performance of the manager can be assessed or criticized.
We must be playing a different sport to the rest of the world, at least according to some of our fans.
But there isn’t with Jose, never has been! They knew that when they hired him.
Ed has essentially tried to change Mourinho’s approach. But said approach is what made him so successful. So trying to find some kind of compromise is futile. It also means that somone should be held accountable for hiring Jose without acknowledging that it came with strings attached.
If Ed didn’t like Mourinho’s defensive targets and has reservations over why Bailly and Lindelof haven’t worked, then that points to distrust - irreconcilable differences!
Hence the ‘back him or sack him.’
It’s not a cop out, it’s the reality of hiring Jose Mourinho as a manger. If you don’t trust him, don’t employ him.
Mitchell's a scout. Whether it be at Southampton, Spurs or Leipzig, his role has been chief scout. If we hire him and him alone, it'll be an indication that Ed wants to maintain his role. Mitchell would essentially just replace Ribalta
I rate Mourinho as a manager but I never thought that he was the perfect fit for United. So when we finally hired him, I imagined that maybe he was willing to adapt to United and that it was part of the interview. I was probably wrong and the board most likely made a mistake.
People saying that fans will turn on the new manager if we don't win the PL within 2 years are way off the mark IMO. Klopp hasn't won a thing at Liverpool and even if he ends this season potless their fans will still love him and back him because they are entertained every week, same at Spurs, Poch is in his 5th season I believe and still hasn't won a thing, I don't see Spurs fans calling for him to be sacked, why? because he gives them a vibrant young attacking side. If United finally got a manager that had us playing attacking, exciting football after nearly 6 years years of tumescent shite, he'd have a lot more rope with fans.
Iv a horrible feeling that no matter who we get. The problems will stay the same. Same drab football, same "creative" play, Valencia, stalling, jones, mata, felliani will still be their forever till the legs start falling off.
Of course he carries some blame. Just have a look at my posts in his thread. But using him as an excuse to say Mourinho shouldn't be sacked is what I have an issue with.
If that’s the case, however, it should have been made clear before the summer. This business about being willing to pay £100m for Varane doesn’t suggest he was being forced to make do. Additionally there is no point in accepting a transfer list including centre-halfs. Mourinho seemed to be expeciting the signing of a defender that Woodward had no intention of delivering.
That’s what makes me angry.
Yes, Ed vetoed his transfers but does a manger really need 100m of new signings to have a system, a style of play?. We look like the most directionless team in the league. On top of that, he is managed to pick a fight with the players, the board etc and has continued to undermine the club with his heritage comments.
Can't wait until he is gone!
Can't wait until he is gone!
Ed has the right to say he's not going to pay X amount for x player. Do you think Bartomeu doesn't have the responsibility to say Barca aren't going to pay 150m for Pogba?
How long has it been since Liverpool won the league?
How many names in their procession of shite managers?
Looking at the ridiculous money they are spending now, expectations will be rising accordingly.
It's not a Jose thing either. It's a simple reality of where we were last season.
We were miles off the pace. If you trust Mourinho and think he was the best man for the job, then he needed money to overhaul a squad that clearly wasn't up to snuff.
If you think it's Mourinho' fault that we weren't competitive, then you need to sack the man who clearly didn't get enough out of players that were good enough.
The board went for neither, and it meant going into the season with a combination of a manger and squad who we already knew couldn't compete at the top end of the league. The only reason to think that it would end better than last year was delusion.
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Even if we had got Toby etc he'd have managed to fall out with them. The problem is he doesn't have an effective system so it doesn't matter who we buy.
Could that be the point though? Maybe that's Jose's point, is to be able to win as many games as possible even if it means playing crap. SAF games in the last 2-3 years weren't exactly entertaining. The entertainment came from just winning. Pep is the only one proving that properly, both playing style and mentality. But yeah, it would be nice to see United play entertaining football every now and then, especially against the smaller teams. But even that's a stretch nowadays.
I think that Mourinho tried to put pressure on Woodward by leaking names of players and then say that he was expecting them to sign. Which led to the ridiculous briefing by the club at the end of the window.
Our games during SAF's last years weren't as good as our best periods but it was pretty good and it was infinitely better than anything we have done in the last 5 years. It's one of the rare cases were people remember the past as worse than it was.
Mourinho signed two young/expensive center backs in the previous summers. The board shouldn't have leaked why they didn't sign them but they were well within their right to not give him more money for a CB. Sorry but it's true. I didn't see Mourinho complaining about a RW, which we don't have. A backup striker, which would allow Lukaku to actually play well since he could get some resemblance of a rest.
Both Mourinho and the board are selfish dicks that need to be replaced. Board is at least attempting to fix their shit with all the leaks about hiring a DOF (that's still happening). Now they're firing Mourinho (hopefully) to fix the other issue. I don't see how anyone can watch the way Mourinho acts in front of the press, to the players, and the football he provides us and actually wants to give him more time. His relationship with EVERYBODY at this club has completely deteriorated like it has at his previous clubs. He's simply one of the many storm clouds over Old Trafford right now and he needs to go.
Both Mourinho and the board are selfish dicks that need to be replaced. Board is at least attempting to fix their shit with all the leaks about hiring a DOF (that's still happening). Now they're firing Mourinho (hopefully) to fix the other issue. I don't see how anyone can watch the way Mourinho acts in front of the press, to the players, and the football he provides us and actually wants to give him more time. His relationship with EVERYBODY at this club has completely deteriorated like it has at his previous clubs. He's simply one of the many storm clouds over Old Trafford right now and he needs to go.
This is the most infuriating tweet, and so true. The way Jose has gone about displaying his displeasure has been disgraceful. He downed tools before the season even started. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but sacking is what he deserved and the right decision.
The poor football in Fergie's latter years has been greatly exagerrated IMO, yes, after we lost Ronnie and Tevez we never reached those heights of exciting football again under Fergie and there were a lot of functional performances, but we were never anywhere near the negative dross we've seen under the last 2 managers and certainly not against the lower half sides, and truth is Fergie was beyond criticism at that point, he was Teflon.
All of these rumours are doing my head in, whatever happens United are now a joke of a club that is full of people who don’t care about the on pitch success.
My wife hates football but last night for once gave an opinion. She said how can united be successful if they are forever changing managers and how can you motivate the players when they earn so much money as it doesn’t matter to them if they win lose or draw. She also said how can the players be passionate about the club when very few are from Manchester. Hate it when she makes sense.
My wife hates football but last night for once gave an opinion. She said how can united be successful if they are forever changing managers and how can you motivate the players when they earn so much money as it doesn’t matter to them if they win lose or draw. She also said how can the players be passionate about the club when very few are from Manchester. Hate it when she makes sense.
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This has turned into yet another back and forth thread
'It's Jose's fault!'
'No! It's Ed's fault'
Tis a shame watching fellow United fans arguing amongst themselves.
'It's Jose's fault!'
'No! It's Ed's fault'
Tis a shame watching fellow United fans arguing amongst themselves.
I don't think anyone has done or is doing that.
It's both their faults!
Is it sacked yet?
To an extent, absolutely.
That said, Jose must take full responsibility for the poor performances on the pitch the results that follow.
Ed hired Jose and LVG, both of which have turned out to be a disaster.
You're just plucking things out of thin air now to suit your agenda.
We all know Joses system is defensive and he's been bashed with this since he arrived. He knows that he needs to build from the back not just with solid defenders but with leaders also, he was trying to achieve this with Alderwiereld and I think we'll still end up with Alderwiereld.
I could now say, Alderwiereld and Jose would've got on like a house on fire to defend Jose. This, just like your comment has no basis to it, there's no saying it'd happen.
Ed Woodward used Varane as a reference to the fact that he did not think Alderwiereld was worth it. Both because he wasn't good enough to match his price tag and he would be a short-term fix (age). There is absolutely nothing wrong with that reasoning and that happens at every club. The issue I have is we didn't have enough alternatives. There is a reason Alderwiereld is still at Tottenham. I don't think any club would have paid that amount for a 30-year-old player available for 25m in 12 months time. We have no idea why we missed out on Koulibaly and Skriniar.
Furthermore, my stance doesn't mean I think our transfer policy is okay. Just have a look at the DoF thread, I have been calling for one for years. This club needs a DOF who takes the responsibility off Ed and can build a squad that lasts independent of the manager.
That is all beside the point though. I don't think Mourinho has done a good enough job and more importantly, I don't see any improvement in the horizon for many reasons that have been discussed before.
Since that's my stance, I feel Mourinho needs to leave regardless of Ed Woodward, Director of Football etc.
It's both!
So, the fans who wish to see the back of a manager who has failed miserably in his role now possess an agenda?
Logic.
This is what makes me laugh. Obviously Woodward wasn't a footballer and didn't hold a footballing job, but he's involved in this world of ours for quite a few years and has been in charge of United for five years - seeing and learning things us fans will never know. But some still patronise over him: He's not a football man.
Add the fantasies about how he signs players himself even if the manager doesn't want them (from Pogba and Sanchez to Di Maria and Lindelof even) and you get the idea we're talking about an idiot ruining the club.
The reality is that the big problem with United over the last few years has been the awful work our managers have done, and therefore the wrong selection of managers. And that's the main issue with Woodward: Does he have the knowledge and the foresight to select a good manager, a fitting manager, rather than someone with the best CV available. Because hiring the right guy would actually make 90% of our trouble go away.
We're 7 league games into the new season with 29 more to play, how's he 'failed miserably'? We're you honestly expecting us to mount a title count this season after signing two players this summer?
The actual agenda I was referring to was Jose would've fallen out with Alderweireld, as you know, Jose falls out with everyone that plays under him.
He does. But then he really shouldn't have hired Mourinho, because it is widely known how Jose operates in the transfer market and what he expects. And with that there isn't much room for compromise. Mourinho has a well worn blueprint for success - Ed and the board should've recognised what would be asked of them. If they want to exercise their opinion over who is recruited on the basis of ability, age, marketability etc, then they should've hired a manager more receptive to such a way of working.
Mourinho has failings. Ed has failings. Both are culpable. And what happened in the summer points to an unworkable relationship. It also suggest insufficient due diligence was done during the appointment in the first place.
Oh, what's the fecking point.
The fact is - it doesn't really matter whose fault is - it's still the managers responsibility to get results.
Way to twist words. That's not what I said.Sure. They're being "played". The media is the reason we're in 10th place.
No - I didnt expect us to do very well - and that kind of is the problem!
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