D. McDonnell - the Mirror: Jose will be sacked this weekend | BBC: Jose still has board backing

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it hasn't been one change, it's been 3. So tell me, when the next manager can't cope with player ego and the board vetoing transfers, how much closer will we be to winning the title?

How many managers are you going to call incompetent? It's it going to be another 10 years and 10 managers before people click on that its not ALL down to the manager.
However many are actually incompetent. So far, it's three and it's hardly debatable.

Yes we have other areas of concern but you have to start somewhere. For example, our youth and scouting was pretty broken too but we've been revamping it big time. Maybe we shouldn't because there are so many other problems?

It's like not replacing Rooney because we have other problems. The logic is weak. You're correct in saying that it may not bring success but that doesn't inherently mean that it's not necessary.
 
A large part of why Gary is angry is because he's rigid with his "always back the manager" sentiment.



It's a ridiculous stance. People need to stop thinking giving managers time means they'll turn into Fergie.

Yeah, Neville is free to hold and air his views, and in general his understanding of football as a casual watcher, is excellent. However his stance on managers has always been very one dimensional and I can't agree with it. For me, you have patience with the manager as long as the finer details make sense. I'd gladly back a manager that gave me signs of a distant greatness that could be on its way. Whether through the system he believes in, the excitement of the football or his development of players including young ones. If you have a manager who neither gets enough results nor has a vision/ideology I can see leading us to the top or that I can connect to, then I don't see the point in patience.
 
Can't believe our board is so incompetent that they've gone and done what everyone wanted them to do.
 
However many are actually incompetent. So far, it's three and it's hardly debatable.

Yes we have other areas of concern but you have to start somewhere. For example, our youth and scouting was pretty broken too but we've been revamping it big time. Maybe we shouldn't because there are so many other problems?

It's like not replacing Rooney because we have other problems. The logic is weak. You're correct in saying that it may not bring success but that doesn't inherently mean that it's not necessary.
A lot of people are trying to shift blame away from Mourinho as if any manager that comes in will fail no matter what because Woodward is in charge. They're not understanding what Woodward is doing wrong.

Woodward's problems
1. He's hiring the wrong managers
2. He takes too long to sack said managers
3. He has no vision for what he wants out of managers and what approach United should generally follow
4. He gives managers too much power and when coupled with #3 and #1, it can lead to players the next manager will have no use for

These problems Woodward is to blame for does not mean the next manager will fail which is what they're not understanding. Woodward being incompetent only means that there is a higher chance he repeats those same mistakes and thus he ends up hiring the wrong manager a 4th time.

The next manager could get United competing for the biggest titles which would be an obvious success. However, if Woodward clearly fixes none of the problems he's to blame for, it only means that he got lucky with his 4th manager and that eventually that problem will come up again. It's irrelevant to the manager's performances though.

I don't know why they keep thinking it absolves the managers of any blame.
 
It's sad to know that this kind of news would be in the media before it's communicated directly to the manager and players. All supporters of United should hear this from the club if it's true, not the media.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's true, United have on many occasions shown themselves to be really incompetent on multiple levels.

If true, I still think Mourinho is a fantastic manager and if he chooses the right club, he will find success. Man United remains a big club but will lose ground if they don't get smart or lucky or both. The board has had a big hand in the failures of recent years. Good luck to all! :)
 
This is the wrong time to sack Mou, we're only 7 games in, sacking him right now would be an absolute waste of a season.
But then again, the longer he stays the greater this on going feud between Mou and the world will get.
 
Ultimately, we all should have seen this coming. The third-season syndrome. I hoped that it would change, but alas it has not been the case. the blame does not rely on Mourinho's feet alone, but you survey the football landscape and when results start going south, it is usually the manager's head that starts rolling first. I am just sad that club officials have leaked information like this that shouldn't have been leaked. We used to run such a tight ship back then. I was disgusted at the way LVG was sacked even though I literally slept sometimes through the 15-16 season. People say we have to go back to our roots. I just want the club officials to learn how it was during the SAF years and learn to keep their mouth shut in matters that would undermine the manager and tarnish the clubs reputation.

And to people who are saying Mourinho has not been backed, I think their perception has been warped by the football being played. Players play like it is the first time they have played together. There has not been a system or tactics in place that have utilised our player's potential. Except for De Gea, since he gets to make showstopping saves, since our fecking defence concedes so many chances. Mourinho has not even managed to put together a cohesive defence, and he is supposed to be a defensive-minded manager aka keeping it tight at the back and play counterattacking football. The club has invested around 300-400 million pounds since Mourinho became the manager. I am fuming that the morons at the club didn't see fit to back Sir Alex after 2009. We could have been in a much better position( or not, since we hired a go-kart driver to drive a F1 car, after he left).

So given such a high budget, Mourinho has not put together a cohesive defence, a cohesive attack and has smeared the name of our beloved club(remember the heritage rant after the sevilla game). He never truly embraced the club and always talked like he was not a member of the club. Also, his 3 titles rant after the tottenham loss, I believe. We get it, you have won a lot of titles previously. But what are you doing now? Always being defensive and coming of as sort of insecure, in this age where every fecking little thing is magnified in the media, bringing unwarranted negative publicity that the club could do without.

And given that Ed extended his contract this spring, he should maybe not have been pennypinching when it came to toby. but I refuse to believe that we would have been this juggernaut if we had bought him. When Liverpool added VVD, they atleast had a fantastic attack. We didn't have that and I can't see how adding a defender would have changed that. I mean ffs, he ain't Messi.

And finally, our fecking board. No one has a footballling background. Like Neville said, how do you know that Harry Maguire, toby or whomever is not good? There is no plan in place. The time for evaluation was Jan of 2018, when talks of PSG started swirling around. They shoud have come to a decision at that time. They panicked and gave him an extension, and then decided that he was not good enough and went behind Mourinho's back and started leaking information to the media about Varane and all that shit. The board are not fit to run an institution as storied as Machester United Football Club. Woodward, if you are not capable of balancing the money making responsibilities with the decisions related to the club, just delegate them to someone who is capable of doing it. You are trying to do too much and gravelly damaging the standards of the club in the eyes of us fans.

When Mourinho was first appointed, I thought it would have a fairytale timeline where Sir Alex would hand over the PL trophy to Mourinho kickstarting a new era at the club. That has not been the case. We have been through 3 managers in past 5 years ( if Mourinho is really getting the sack), and it's becoming really hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel for our club. You know the famous story about how a fan held a banner saying "3 years of excuses and still crap, ta-ra fergie" ? When I first read the story, I was like " Man, this guy said that to Sir Alex!" But seeing the shitshow at the club now, I think I get what he was thinking. When he was young, he must have lived in the Sir Matt era - the first "golden age" of our club and he became disillusioned with the direction the club was heading when Pool we winning everything in sight. And the same is happening right now, where most of our fans had only lived through the Sir Alex era( myself included)- the second "golden age" and are frustated with the direction that the club is heading. The Man Utd board has a precedent for this, instead of building on what Sir Matt built, we regressed into mediocrity after him and only rose to prominence through arguably, the greatest football manager ever. Now, we again making the same mistake of slipping again into obscurity without proper planning. I hope the board wake up and smell the coffee, as we would not be so fortunate to get a manager of Sir Alex's calibre again. End all this longterm managing bullshit, the fact that we got 2 exemplary managers who stayed for a combined total of 51 years was an anomaly in itself. Put a structure in place, vet all the resumes and get managers who fit our club's vision. Only if the trophies come in, will the Man Utd 'brand' be relevant.

PS: Please no Conte. That guy is the Italian Mourinho, minus the Champions League Titles. I also don't agree that the club has become a graveyard for managers. Chelsea regularly fires managers, and I have never seen a manager publicly state that he would never be a manage that club. Our club still has the pulling power and now is the time to make the right move, otherwise our championship window would close for the forseeable future. There should no stronger motivation for the people at the club than the thought of Pool or Fecking city eclipsing our 20 league titles.
 
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This whole damned business has been played out in the media. The club has more leaks than the Titanic had. Why should this episode be any different? The dignity of this club has been dragged through the gutter. Sir Matt must be turning in his grave.

Think dignity is being overstated. Can you name any top club which hasn't had leaks in modern days?

The only reason United didn't leak much earlier is because there was an extraordinary manager at the helm for so long that he literally ran the club. Now that's not the case, we are like any other club.

I don't see how leaks compromise the dignity of a club, unless the leaks did not have the approval of the club people. Jose probably knows he's gone already, as do the players, so the leak will do little to influence the Newcastle game.
 
Can't believe our board is so incompetent that they've gone and done what everyone wanted them to do.

Yep, hiring and firing 3 managers in the space of 5 years, spending god knows how many hundreds or billions of pounds, to achieve no title race since SAF and by all accounts are simply going to look for a manager that will guarantee top 4 every season with no care about the title.

We are the pillars of world football. :lol::wenger::lol:
 
A lot of people are trying to shift blame away from Mourinho as if any manager that comes in will fail no matter what because Woodward is in charge. They're not understanding what Woodward is doing wrong.

Woodward's problems
1. He's hiring the wrong managers
2. He takes too long to sack said managers
3. He has no vision for what he wants out of managers and what approach United should generally follow
4. He gives managers too much power and when coupled with #3 and #1, it can lead to players the next manager will have no use for

These problems Woodward is to blame for does not mean the next manager will fail which is what they're not understanding. Woodward being incompetent only means that there is a higher chance he repeats those same mistakes and thus he ends up hiring the wrong manager a 4th time.

The next manager could get United competing for the biggest titles which would be an obvious success. However, if Woodward clearly fixes none of the problems he's to blame for, it only means that he got lucky with his 4th manager and that eventually that problem will come up again. It's irrelevant to the manager's performances though.

I don't know why they keep thinking it absolves the managers of any blame.
Spot on.

I'm happy to go along with the logic that I'd Mourinho is responsible for our poor football them Woodward also has to be held accountable for our poor managers. However just because Woodward has messed up choosing managers doesn't absolve the managers he's selected from blame. The two points seem to be contradicting each other to me.

If one of the two is going then I'm happy. The absolute perfect situation would be a DoF coming in and Woodward focusing on running the giant business (minus footballing decisions). But one out of two changes is better than none isn't it?
 
Think dignity is being overstated. Can you name any top club which hasn't had leaks in modern days?

The only reason United didn't leak much earlier is because there was an extraordinary manager at the helm for so long that he literally ran the club. Now that's not the case, we are like any other club.

I don't see how leaks compromise the dignity of a club, unless the leaks did not have the approval of the club people. Jose probably knows he's gone already, as do the players, so the leak will do little to influence the Newcastle game.

I'm not a professional manager but, I can't imagine even getting myself worked up about that match after learning through the media that I was fired. I'm not sure if I'd even show up.

You are fired if you don't live up to expectations but imagine hearing from your co-workers before you even know........
 
I'm not a professional manager but, I can't imagine even getting myself worked up about that match after learning through the media that I was fired. I'm not sure if I'd even show up.

You are fired if you don't live up to expectations but imagine hearing from your co-workers before you even know........
Well it could give the players a boost. You never kwnow.
 
Why does it feel like we are always looking for a manager times when none of the best prenuptial candidates are available?
 
I'm not a professional manager but, I can't imagine even getting myself worked up about that match after learning through the media that I was fired. I'm not sure if I'd even show up.

You are fired if you don't live up to expectations but imagine hearing from your co-workers before you even know........

That's true, but that's a different kettle of fish. Jose was probably informed or already guessed he would be sacked prior to the game which explains his demeanour in the presser. The leak won't impact the game much as the mood had already set in prior to that.
 
Why does it feel like we are always looking for a manager times when none of the best prenuptial candidates are available?

What I really don't want is a new permanent manager.

I want an interim, til the end of the season. And then, while that guy (Carrick, Hiddink, whoever the feck) sees the season through, I want a DoF and a restructure of the board so that football decisions are made by football people. And Woodward can sign as many noodle sponsorships as he wants
 
There have been a few NFL coaches that managed to do this fairly well, holding both the HC/GM roles, or having final/all say on all football operations and personnel decisions. Holmgren called all the shots in Seattle when he was there; Belichick does the same in New England (de facto GM); Reid in Philadelphia held all say during his time; Shanahan practically ran the entire show during his Denver tenure, and he held the GM title in Washington though Little Danny Snyder acted like a small-time Jerry Jones in reality.

Some could argue Payton holds all power in New Orleans regardless of the actual GM seat-filler, and Carroll seems to have full control in Seattle regardless of who's holding the GM role.

Then there's the 89-93 Cowboys when anyone with legit knowledge of what occurred knew Jimmy ran the entire football operations side while Jerry ran the football administration side. That is until Jerry craved that acceptance from the media, the public, the football people and booted Jimmy out.

Sure, but there are a couple of problems there. With Belichick and Reid, even though they had final say there were (are) GMs in place that served them. That position doesn't exist at United. In today's day and age, with the exception of Belichick who's basically like Pop and SAF in that they're outliers and in the pantheon of all-time greats, it's just inordinately difficult to do both of those jobs. Seattle fired Holmgren from the GM duties after 3 years and Bruce Allen basically said enough to Shanahan in Washington after 3 years...so those two legends didn't even last long doing it. Also, calling Mickey Loomis and John Schneider in particular seat-fillers is very harsh and inaccurate, IMO.

Agree that Jimmy was great at it, but Jimmy was also a visionary and exploited a crazy market inefficiency with draft picks in an era where people didn't know any better. In today's sports, teams are significantly better at running their shops than they were 30 years ago. It's not impossible for someone akin to SAF to rise again for United, but it's going to be a real struggle for the majority of candidates to capably run everything as well as clubs (like City) who have modernized their organizational structure.
 
A lot of people are trying to shift blame away from Mourinho as if any manager that comes in will fail no matter what because Woodward is in charge. They're not understanding what Woodward is doing wrong.

Woodward's problems
1. He's hiring the wrong managers
2. He takes too long to sack said managers
3. He has no vision for what he wants out of managers and what approach United should generally follow
4. He gives managers too much power and when coupled with #3 and #1, it can lead to players the next manager will have no use for

These problems Woodward is to blame for does not mean the next manager will fail which is what they're not understanding. Woodward being incompetent only means that there is a higher chance he repeats those same mistakes and thus he ends up hiring the wrong manager a 4th time.

The next manager could get United competing for the biggest titles which would be an obvious success. However, if Woodward clearly fixes none of the problems he's to blame for, it only means that he got lucky with his 4th manager and that eventually that problem will come up again. It's irrelevant to the manager's performances though.

I don't know why they keep thinking it absolves the managers of any blame.

I think it’s amazing that our fans learn nothing from history.

History has proven that a football man in control of this football club delivers success. The Glazers finally wrestled control of the club from a football man back in 2013, when he eventually retired. In the interim he made them millions. Since then the Glazers total control over the club has been nothing short of calamity. It is impossible to get behind the club with this crew in charge.
 
I think it’s amazing that our fans learn nothing from history.

History has proven that a football man in control of this football club delivers success. The Glazers finally wrestled control of the club from a football man back in 2013, when he eventually retired. In the interim he made them millions. Since then the Glazers total control over the club has been nothing short of calamity. It is impossible to get behind the club with this crew in charge.
This is only true to an extent. In general, until Mourinho's antics, they have unconditionally backed every manager to the hint, giving them a football manager esque experience and freedom to do whatever the feck they wanted to.

The leadership has been poor, no doubt, in part in their selection of disappointing managers. But it's also true that they've generally given the managers all the resources and decision making power (until summer 2018).
 
This is like when we had Swales in charge.

Throwing money at the situation and swapping managers every 15 months. It took years of this before we actually realised what was happening.

You guys now have players on huge wages that arent turning in the performances, like the Marsh's and Daly's we had. No doubting Pogba and Sanchez are clearly better than the previously mentioned but it gives you the example.

What next if the next high profile manager doesnt work? Do you go for Keith Hill down the road at Rochdale in a Brian Horton style move?

Its slowly moving in that direction.

United fans know the Glazers are milking the club but you have all been hoodwinked into thinking the problem is in the dugout or on the pitch.

The club is now a cashcow for those in charge. Keep blaming the players and managers though........it'll only end in tears
 
Celebration on hold until confirmation. I will be celebrating more than when LvG was sacked. He should never have been appointed manager of United in the first place. This was a stupid and rash decision to counter the appointment of Pep at City. Put Carrick in temp charge and think this over very carefully before appointing the next United manager. City planned the Pep signing for years until they had everything in place. I know we cannot take that long, but the next appointment has to be a well thought out process.
 
I think it’s amazing that our fans learn nothing from history.

History has proven that a football man in control of this football club delivers success. The Glazers finally wrestled control of the club from a football man back in 2013, when he eventually retired. In the interim he made them millions. Since then the Glazers total control over the club has been nothing short of calamity. It is impossible to get behind the club with this crew in charge.
I'm hoping we appoint a DOF who has a vision that fits United. Sacking Mourinho and hiring the DOF will go a long way to bringing United back. The two problems we currently have are not mutually exclusive.
 
I really hope the caretaker manager is not just some random call, he needs to be a manager with a style similar to the one our next manager will have. I think the best call is getting Wenger to get our team ready for attacking football and get Poch in the summer.
 
Even if you want Jose to go, the manner of the departure is not right and been handled poorly yet again. Have to agree with Neville on that point.

The club have been complicit in turning this into an uglier affair than it needed to be.
 
This is absolutely the wrong time to sack the manager.
The right time was in the summer. Better late than never.
 
@Pogue Mahone Ancellotti is good at managing clubs on the verge of success with good fundamentals already set down from a coaching perspective. But put him in charge of a side that is past it’s best or in our case a total shambles - he’s not reknowned for that elite coaching ability to get a club changing complete tack and playing fast flowing football. Don’t think he’s the right guy for our current situation.

Share your fears in general though - IMO there is no risk free appointment I can see. We should however go for someone who at bare minimum has attacking principles and is more of a coach than a manager.
 
Even if you want Jose to go, the manner of the departure is not right and been handled poorly yet again. Have to agree with Neville on that point.

The club have been complicit in turning this into an uglier affair than it needed to be.

Nice to see a broader interpretation from a mourinho out mindset.

It’s a separate issue about wanting him gone or not. If you can look at our club and the way we’ve been run and the way we present ourselves and the club values in the last 5 years and it not bother you, then I can’t grasp why you follow a ‘club’ at all. Just go support city, or be neutral. No I don’t think man united should be like a happy little community club, but nor should we be whored around the world putting tractor sponsorships over basic football values and ideals. It’s disgusting to watch. But people keep being happy to take the scapegoat, three times in a row ed has pulled wool over peoples eyes while getting richer.


Our next manager may well come in and do great for 2-3 years, then it goes sour and where will we be? Right here again. The heart and direction has been ripped out of the club, I would truly prefer ten years without trophies while supporting a club with some purpose other than cash.
 
Who else is out there? I mean i want Jose gone (sadly, i really hoped he would stay here for years) but do we have a reasonable replacement?

Seems that board doesn’t really care about planning.
 
Jose definitely needs to go but as Gaz said, this is a pretty unseemly way of doing it. The board should've done it immediately after one of the recent poor results and not by way of (if the story is true) a leak that permeates through the fan base while Mourinho and the squad are about to embark on a home game.
 
Board needs to feck off. The signs were there all of summer and pre-season. They wait and wait and wait and then act 8 games into the season. I'm done with this incompetent board. Two years from now we'd be saying the same thing again. Rinse repeat.
 
Nice to see a broader interpretation from a mourinho out mindset.

It’s a separate issue about wanting him gone or not. If you can look at our club and the way we’ve been run and the way we present ourselves and the club values in the last 5 years and it not bother you, then I can’t grasp why you follow a ‘club’ at all. Just go support city, or be neutral. No I don’t think man united should be like a happy little community club, but nor should we be whored around the world putting tractor sponsorships over basic football values and ideals. It’s disgusting to watch. But people keep being happy to take the scapegoat, three times in a row ed has pulled wool over peoples eyes while getting richer.


Our next manager may well come in and do great for 2-3 years, then it goes sour and where will we be? Right here again. The heart and direction has been ripped out of the club, I would truly prefer ten years without trophies while supporting a club with some purpose other than cash.

Agreed. Look as much as I’ve been militant Jose out even I felt remorseful after seeing that press conference today.

When you can see that the manager is in such a broken state (perhaps Jose has been depressed for a long time - who knows what is affecting him behind the scenes) as his employer he should have been out of his misery a long long time ago.

Why drag this on and make an example of him and turn this club into a circus and a public soap opera. The way Jose treated Shaw and Martial - we have treated him also.

It’s tit for tat and it’s bullshit way of running a club of this size and grandeur.
 
Agreed. Look as much as I’ve been militant Jose out even I felt remorseful after seeing that press conference today.

When you can see that the manager is in such a broken state (perhaps Jose has been depressed for a long time - who knows what is affecting him behind the scenes) as his employer he should have been out of his misery a long long time ago.

Why drag this on and make an example of him and turn this club into a circus and a public soap opera. The way Jose treated Shaw and Martial - we have treated him also.

It’s tit for tat and it’s bullshit way of running a club of this size and grandeur.

The attitude that anybody hammering the board is making excuses for mourinho needs to stop. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Separately I disagree re any similarities regarding a managers criticism or approach to players management and the circus we have become and the three consecutive disgraces with regards getting rid of managers. (not least because a lot of that stuff was conjecture and shaw himself has come out stronger for it, the type of player and mindset mourinho wants to see respond) but anyway that’s a separate discussion.

If somebody is a real mourinho hater, then isn’t it still the board to blame for the huge new contract 8 months ago, clearly losing his trust in summer but having us in this position 8 games into a season already down the drain? They are shambolic. 6 bloody years with Moyes. Utter indecision with van gaal. Seems they’re blooding flipping coins over mourinho.
 
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