Cycling 2024

Even Crazier when you consider this is a giro-tour double. And he crushed everyone at the giro too.

Last person to do this since Pantani if he wins.
 
Right before Pogacar attacked Vingegaard tried to drop him, and it didn't work. Probably went a bit too deep, and it's showing now.
 
Yeah today ends the Tour I reckon

Pogi's gonna gain minutes on Jonas today
 
Are the sprinters in danger of going over the limit today? They were already like 35 minutes behind on the foot of the climb, and Pogacar is flying.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Are the sprinters in danger of going over the limit today? They were already like 35 minutes behind on the foot of the climb, and Pogacar is flying.
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the trick is to have all the sprinters go over the limit, so the ASO cannot disqualify everyone.
 
Vingegaard has extended his lead slightly over Remco, so it's not like he's blowing up. Pogacar is just on another planet.
 
I think gaining 3kg and then losing it in 4 months between march and july to peak for both tour and classics screwed pogi last year.
 
Feels like time limit might be an issue for some. 111 finishes so far according to me your website, 5 mins to go

ETA: just jumped to 140
 
If he wasn't a walking advertisement for that watch he's wearing too, that'd be another second gained. Marginal gains in the bin for fashion.
 
Most obvious doper since Bolt maybe since Lance himself.
Sport is way cleaner than back in the day but a very selective group are doing whatever they want. No idea if it's something completely new or a new masking agent method that makes blood doping the old way possible again but it's obvious there's something up.
Pointless 3rd week now ahead with 1-2-3 set in stone if not something crazy happens.
 
Kasper said:
Most obvious doper since Bolt maybe since Lance himself.
Sport is way cleaner than back in the day but a very selective group are doing whatever they want. No idea if it's something completely new or a new masking agent method that makes blood doping the old way possible again but it's obvious there's something up.
Pointless 3rd week now ahead with 1-2-3 set in stone if not something crazy happens.
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I mean I do agree he’s doping but Vingegaard and visma are 100x more obvious.
Pogi has been a super talent since the youth ranks, winning a bunch of u23 races at a very young age, culminating in winning the L’avenir. in his first pro season he won WT races and had 3 stages in the Vuelta and podiumed. He’s been the best of his age group since like 17.

Vingegaard was a mid pack fodder domestique pre Covid, at youth levels and at pro levels. His best performance prior to 2021 was one decent pull on the Angliru for Roglic and some uphill finishes at coppa bartoli beating Ethan hayter.
Suddenly in 2021 he gained like an extra 1.5wkg out of nowhere and his TTs suddenly went up 3 levels.
All in the space of 6 months in his mid 20s.

Vingegaard is exponentially dodgier than pogacar.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
I mean I do agree he’s doping but Vingegaard and visma are 100x more obvious.
Pogi has been a super talent since the youth ranks, winning a bunch of u23 races at a very young age, culminating in winning the L’avenir. in his first pro season he won WT races and had 3 stages in the Vuelta and podiumed. He’s been the best of his age group since like 17.

Vingegaard was a mid pack fodder domestique pre Covid, at youth levels and at pro levels. His best performance prior to 2021 was one decent pull on the Angliru for Roglic and some uphill finishes at coppa bartoli beating Ethan hayter.
Suddenly in 2021 he gained like an extra 1.5wkg out of nowhere and his TTs suddenly went up 3 levels.
All in the space of 6 months in his mid 20s.

Vingegaard is exponentially dodgier than pogacar.
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I'm not too interested in the nuances who's more obvious, it's clear they're 1/2 in whatever order you prefer. I don't see the rise to the top in cycling as something that special because unlike football the skill requirements are not that important, vo2max, muscle fiber, hematocrit and plenty of other biological are the main factors. As long as you did any sort of ultra endurance sport growing up (and Vingegaard did cycle since forever, just wasn't on the pro teams radar) you might make the jump pretty easily.
At least the Skeletor is kind of specialised on his climbing ridiculousness which kinda makes sense given his 55kg. Pogacar is literally doing everything except for winning bunch sprints but then also puts 5 minutes into super specialised pure climbers like Rodriguez. But hey ho, super talent alert, can do it all, yadayada.
 
Yeah, it always give you pause when these climbing records from the height of the (known) doping era are beaten soundly. It doesn't matter who does it, but putting three minutes into a Pantani record is quite something. Obviously there is always context around how hard the stage has been leading up to the climb, but this was a fairly long one at a high pace. Pogacar beat it by around three minutes, which means Vingegaard and Remco also beat the record. Insane.
 
It was a pretty instructive stage, to clear up the ball conundrum.

Assuming riders use their brains: Pogacar and Vingegaard know they are by far the two best climbers. Evenpoel knows he has no chance. Pogacar and Vingegaard both know that Vingegaard has to attack to win, so Vingegaard attacks and Pogacar follows. Evenpoel just follows, until he can't. He knows he can't accelerate, so he doesn't. When Pogacar realizes that he's stronger than Vingegaard, he counters and wins.

Stage 9, same logic: Pogacar and Evenpoel know they're the two strongest GC riders on the stage, so they attack. They know getting a gap isn't very likely, but worst case they finish same time. Vingegaard knows he has no chance, so he marks Pogacar.

Alternatively, we have the testicular interpretation: Vingegaard lacked balls on stage 9. Evenpoel was a eunuch on stage 15. Pogacar lacked gametes for most of the stage, while Vingegaard was packing, but Pogacar grew at the end.
 
Kasper said:
I'm not too interested in the nuances who's more obvious, it's clear they're 1/2 in whatever order you prefer. I don't see the rise to the top in cycling as something that special because unlike football the skill requirements are not that important, vo2max, muscle fiber, hematocrit and plenty of other biological are the main factors. As long as you did any sort of ultra endurance sport growing up (and Vingegaard did cycle since forever, just wasn't on the pro teams radar) you might make the jump pretty easily.
At least the Skeletor is kind of specialised on his climbing ridiculousness which kinda makes sense given his 55kg. Pogacar is literally doing everything except for winning bunch sprints but then also puts 5 minutes into super specialised pure climbers like Rodriguez. But hey ho, super talent alert, can do it all, yadayada.
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It gives me pause that after a whole season of dominating everyone, despite having had COVID about three weeks ago, and already breaking a bunch of climbing records in this year’s Tour, this deep into the race, after several outstanding performances, following yesterday’s aggressive ride, and at the end of today’s massive stage, his watts should be dipping because hematocrit levels typically drop with fatigue, yet he is smashing historical records….
 
Suedesi said:
Yeah, I love Pogacar, but these numbers give me pause...
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When you're beating records set by the best epo fuelled climber ever by 3.5 minutes, it should give everyone pause.

We're back to Armstrong on Sestriere, where everyone knew what was happening but no one said anything.
 
What was also quite crazy, was that Vingegaard looked like he was murdering himself, while Pogacar was riding with no hands at one point and blasted over the line at the top. Different styles and all that, but the contrast was quite stark. And to be clear, I think they are probably doing the same stuff.
 
Mike Smalling said:
What was also quite crazy, was that Vingegaard looked like he was murdering himself, while Pogacar was riding with no hands at one point and blasted over the line at the top. Different styles and all that, but the contrast was quite stark. And to be clear, I think they are probably doing the same stuff.
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Vingegaard rode the second quickest of all time by 2 and a half minutes, and 1 minute behind the new record holder who it looked pretty easy for. This was 2 months after a punctured lung too. It's down to when they get retested in the future I guess but it's getting petty obvious.
 
Mike Smalling said:
What was also quite crazy, was that Vingegaard looked like he was murdering himself, while Pogacar was riding with no hands at one point and blasted over the line at the top. Different styles and all that, but the contrast was quite stark. And to be clear, I think they are probably doing the same stuff.
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That was just a moment - in the draft - where he stood up and poured water over his helmet. It was a Kodak moment, but it was just that - a moment.

And yes, even in a 7-8% gradient, at the speed they're going - there is draft.
 
Balljy said:
Vingegaard rode the second quickest of all time by 2 and a half minutes, and 1 minute behind the new record holder who it looked pretty easy for. This was 2 months after a punctured lung too. It's down to when they get retested in the future I guess but it's getting petty obvious.
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Yeah, they are each very suspicious in different ways, I guess. Even Remco beat Pantani's record. I'm just pointing out that it looked incredible easy for Pogacar.

Suedesi said:
That was just a moment - in the draft - where he stood up and poured water over his helmet. It was a Kodak moment, but it was just that - a moment.
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Indeed, it was just symptomatic for how they each looked on that climb.
 
Italian authorities reopened investigations on Pantani's failed drug test. Apparently there's very strong suspicion the failed test was altered on the camorra's orders(they stood to lose too much money if Pantani won the Giro)
 
I knew we were back to the good old Festina days when Vingegaard rode the best TT of all time last year. Since then, records are being smashed left right and centre.

And people genuinely believe it's diet and tyres, as if sports science was invented by Team Sky in 2010.

Except of course, back in the early 10s, one of the major arguments for why Sky and the other guys were clean is that everyone was still significantly slower than the Epo Pack. And approaching those metrics was considered signs of doping, since clean riders just have no way of matching Epo riders.

Ten to fifteen years later, those are records aren't just being approximated, they are being demolished by crazy lengths.

And no one is even bothering asking questions anymore, because the top of riders are gents and not assholes like Armstrong. Did Kimmage and Walsh retire? what happened?
 
giorno said:
Italian authorities reopened investigations on Pantani's failed drug test. Apparently there's very strong suspicion the failed test was altered on the camorra's orders(they stood to lose too much money if Pantani won the Giro)
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I can believe that. Of course, that doesn't change all the other doping stuff he was implicated in.
 
B20 said:
And no one is even bothering asking questions anymore, because the top of riders are gents and not assholes like Armstrong. Did Kimmage and Walsh retire? what happened?
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That's only partly true. As an example, Vingegaard was asked directly on Danish TV after the time trial last year (and of course gave the answer you would expect).

But I think most people following the sport just want to believe that it's clean, even if that's a bit naive. Otherwise what's the point? And when it comes to everyone directly involved there are so many people's livelihoods depending on the show continuing. Another doping scandal would absolutely rock the sport.
 
giorno said:
It is the way. Badmouth Pantani to an italian = we eat your face
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I get it. I have a small Pantani poster in my shed, and while I was FaceTiming with a cousin who studied in Carrara and is practically Italian, he saw the poster and welled up. It was the strangest thing.
 
Speaking of Pantani, I post this whenever I can.

The greatest cycling advert I have ever seen

 
The sound of the bottom bracket and rear cassette spinning in the gentle breeze of the empty country roads. The fog in the early morning during a Sunday morning 150km bike ride in rolling hills.

That advert captured the fecking essence of road cycling for me, I get chills whenever I watch it.

Then the greats, Coppi and Bartoli, Mercx coming up, an the infamous il pirate mechanical and recovery in the Maglia Rosa.
 
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