Cristiano Ronaldo

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Siorac said:
That reflects the difference in their playing style more than their finishing ability. Also, I'd say Messi's decision-making is better: Ronaldo just loves shooting from everywhere at every opportunity, Messi is far less... trigger-happy.

Messi is the better player but I don't think as a finisher he is superior to Ronaldo.
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If Messi knows he cannot score, he will definitely pass to a teammate, that is 100% certain so, I agree with you there. On your second point about finishing, all Messi's goals have been to a standard that no other player can touch. Lobbing the goalkeeper once in a season is good, but lobbing a different goalkeeper in about 5 different games in one season is exceptional.

Ronaldo is superior in the heading department, and his long shots/free-kicks are brilliant, it is simply that his efficiency rates for the aforementioned actions are low. His first goal last night was simply an error by the goalkeeper since it was at his height and he should have got to it. Any one of Buffon, Casillas, De Gea and maybe Friedel could have saved it.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Now you really are way off the mark. It is not counted as a chance, but it is counted as a shot on goal. If he misses the target, it is still a shot. This is why he has so many shots in a game. However, the point I am trying to make with you is that his shot conversion rate from the number of shots he has is ridiculously low. Those 2 goals from 13 shots are not 2 goals from 13 chances, simply shots. This is why the likes of Michu, RVP, Chicharito have superior goals to shots ratios.
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Yes but I am talking about genuine chances not shots from distances so I am not sure why you even bringing it up. I agreed with you, Ronaldo is a bit too selfish and tends to go for goal when he could pass which reflects in his shots/goal ratio.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
If Messi knows he cannot score, he will definitely pass to a teammate, that is 100% certain so, I agree with you there. On your second point about finishing, all Messi's goals have been to a standard that no other player can touch. Lobbing the goalkeeper once in a season is good, but lobbing a different goalkeeper in about 5 different games in one season is exceptional.

Ronaldo is superior in the heading department, and his long shots/free-kicks are brilliant, it is simply that his efficiency rates for the aforementioned actions are low. His first goal last night was simply an error by the goalkeeper since it was at his height and he should have got to it. Any one of Buffon, Casillas, De Gea and maybe Friedel could have saved it.
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And you don't think Messi has scored goals that some goalies would have saved? That is a terrible argument. Many goals that are scored come as a result of keepers making mistakes. Also, I've seen Messi miss sitters, so he makes mistakes too.

I always thought they were just about equal when it comes to finishing. A goal ratio stat will always be misleading.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
If Messi knows he cannot score, he will definitely pass to a teammate, that is 100% certain so, I agree with you there. On your second point about finishing, all Messi's goals have been to a standard that no other player can touch. Lobbing the goalkeeper once in a season is good, but lobbing a different goalkeeper in about 5 different games in one season is exceptional.

Ronaldo is superior in the heading department, and his long shots/free-kicks are brilliant, it is simply that his efficiency rates for the aforementioned actions are low. His first goal last night was simply an error by the goalkeeper since it was at his height and he should have got to it. Any one of Buffon, Casillas, De Gea and maybe Friedel could have saved it.
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Sure Messi can chip the keeper no problem but that's just one way of finishing. It doesn't matter how the ball ends up in the net as long as it does. I'd say in terms of finishing it is close, Ronaldo isn't a player to go for the chip, he goes through the legs a lot more than Messi does or just goes around the keeper. Ronaldo is just more wasteful, shoots far more.
 
Ronaldo missed some great chances this season, I am yet to see Messi missing good goal chance.

I read somewhere Ronaldo is leading the missed clear cut chances table with 16 shots, RvP comes in second place.

edit: found it, from whoscored:

Most clear-cut chances missed (top 5 leagues 2012/13): Ronaldo 16, Negredo 15, RVP 14, Ibrahimovic/Huntelaar 13, Messi/Aguero/Kone/Giroud 12

Messi has good number, mind you.
 
Lynk said:
Messi doesn't stay static, he drops back into midfield to win back the ball all the time, and when he played on the wing he was the same, always helping the full back. Ronaldo barely ever tracks back, and when he does he doesn't give his full effort.
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This is a bit of a myth. Messi's covered less distance than any Barcelona player in the last 4/5 years and I'm pretty sure there were stats recently showing that Ronaldo was doing more running than him. And why would he get dragged away from goal and waste effort that could be better expended hurting the opposition?
 
Amar__ said:
Ronaldo missed some great chances this season, I am yet to see Messi missing good goal chance.

I read somewhere Ronaldo is leading the missed clear cut chances table with 16 shots, RvP comes in second place.

edit: found it, from whoscored:

Most clear-cut chances missed (top 5 leagues 2012/13): Ronaldo 16, Negredo 15, RVP 14, Ibrahimovic/Huntelaar 13, Messi/Aguero/Kone/Giroud 12

Messi has good number, mind you.
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Makes you wonder about stats this. I haven't seen all Real games but RvP third most wasteful? What do they mean by "clearcut chances"?

Does anyone remember more than 2-3 "clearcut misses"?

I assume that includes the 2-3 times he has hit the post, would you consider that wastefulness or just unlucky? The one he shoots from the edge/corner of the box and hits the post, is that really a "clearcut chance"? Most players wouldn't have even tried it to begin with.
 
I have not watched every Real/Barca game but RVP has not missed 14 clear cut chances:lol:

'Clear-cut chances' is another shit statistic to add to the 'key pass' one
 
antohan said:
Makes you wonder about stats this. I haven't seen all Real games but RvP third most wasteful? What do they mean by "clearcut chances"?

Does anyone remember more than 2-3 "clearcut misses"?

I assume that includes the 2-3 times he has hit the post, would you consider that wastefulness or just unlucky? The one he shoots from the edge/corner of the box and hits the post, is that really a "clearcut chance"? Most players wouldn't have even tried it to begin with.
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I don't know, they probably count that too. I am always doubting these stats tbf, I don't like statistics at all.
 
Siorac said:
That reflects the difference in their playing style more than their finishing ability. Also, I'd say Messi's decision-making is better: Ronaldo just loves shooting from everywhere at every opportunity, Messi is far less... trigger-happy.

Messi is the better player but I don't think as a finisher he is superior to Ronaldo.
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Think it depends what people mean by 'finishing'. If finishing is just the last strike of the ball before it goes in, I'd say Messi is a little better. If finishing constitutes the whole move by that player (the touch, the control, the anticipation, etc) before the ball ends up in the net, I'd say Messi is comfortably better.

That was a great hattrick by Ronaldo last night, though.

akash02 said:
I have not watched every Real/Barca game but RVP has not missed 14 clear cut chances

'Clear-cut chances' is another shit statistic to add to the 'key pass' one
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Sounds about right, to be honest. I'd say at least 10 - he hasn't been as clinical as many would assume. There was one game alone whereby he had 3 very good opportunities.
 
Swaters16 said:
Sure Messi can chip the keeper no problem but that's just one way of finishing. It doesn't matter how the ball ends up in the net as long as it does. I'd say in terms of finishing it is close, Ronaldo isn't a player to go for the chip, he goes through the legs a lot more than Messi does or just goes around the keeper. Ronaldo is just more wasteful, shoots far more.
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Frank Lampard can attest to this.
 
Swaters16 said:
Sure Messi can chip the keeper no problem but that's just one way of finishing. It doesn't matter how the ball ends up in the net as long as it does. I'd say in terms of finishing it is close, Ronaldo isn't a player to go for the chip, he goes through the legs a lot more than Messi does or just goes around the keeper. Ronaldo is just more wasteful, shoots far more.
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It very much does when you're discussing the quality of a player.
 
Siorac said:
That reflects the difference in their playing style more than their finishing ability. Also, I'd say Messi's decision-making is better: Ronaldo just loves shooting from everywhere at every opportunity, Messi is far less... trigger-happy.

Messi is the better player but I don't think as a finisher he is superior to Ronaldo.
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I'd say this isn't far from the truth.

The use of shot conversion statistics is inane in comparing the finishing of two players who are totally different. Take a theoretical example of Messi and Ronaldo both being 35-40 yards from goal with 4 defenders ahead and no other options than to try and score. I'd say both would have a small chance of scoring. Ronaldo would try a 35 yard screamer, whilst Messi would try and round 3-4 players and slot it in.

Both players wouldn't score 9 times out of 10, Messi's shot conversion wouldn't be harmed, Ronaldo's would. It doesn't make Ronaldo a worst finisher, far from it.
 
Skorenzy said:
It very much does when you're discussing the quality of a player.
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Not really. Do you get less points for a 1-0 win where Messi scores the only chance than you do if Ronaldo scores in a 1-0 win? Creating scoring opportunities for yourself is important too. Not saying Messi can't do this as he obviously can.
 
antohan said:
Makes you wonder about stats this. I haven't seen all Real games but RvP third most wasteful? What do they mean by "clearcut chances"?

Does anyone remember more than 2-3 "clearcut misses"?

I assume that includes the 2-3 times he has hit the post, would you consider that wastefulness or just unlucky? The one he shoots from the edge/corner of the box and hits the post, is that really a "clearcut chance"? Most players wouldn't have even tried it to begin with.
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Well he missed two open nets against Reading technically. Missed a bloody good chance against Spurs. Penalty against Southhampton if it counts. Missed a great chance against Wigan at home thankfully as I had money on a 4-0 win. That's all without stretching the mind too much.
 
acnumber9 said:
Well he missed two open nets against Reading technically. Missed a bloody good chance against Spurs. Penalty against Southhampton if it counts. Missed a great chance against Wigan at home thankfully as I had money on a 4-0 win. That's all without stretching the mind too much.
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There were two or three poor misses in his first CL game for us(at Old Trafford if I'm not wrong), that was probably his worst game so far, eventhough he still played fairly good. He is good, isn't he? :D
 
akash02 said:
Yes but I am talking about genuine chances not shots from distances so I am not sure why you even bringing it up. I agreed with you, Ronaldo is a bit too selfish and tends to go for goal when he could pass which reflects in his shots/goal ratio.
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To be honest akash, the number of different statistics we can pull up at any given moment for any given footballer actually stops us from appreciating the football match itself. I love statistics to be honest, but we are both doing a diservice to those players we are talking about in some way. I say, let us forget about the statistics, and get down to actually enjoying these two players in action, because life is too short to be comparing numbers. Messi has proven to be the better all-round player and the Ballon D'Or proves that, but I stress, life is too short to start comparing the two and from now on, I am going to refrain from doing so. I will do statistics of course, but only for the player in question.
 
Rossa said:
And you don't think Messi has scored goals that some goalies would have saved? That is a terrible argument. Many goals that are scored come as a result of keepers making mistakes. Also, I've seen Messi miss sitters, so he makes mistakes too.

I always thought they were just about equal when it comes to finishing. A goal ratio stat will always be misleading.
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So lets talk about Messi and penalties ..how good is his ability here
 
Red_devil_ said:
So lets talk about Messi and penalties ..how good is his ability here
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Don't even go there because we all know what happened. Messi missed a penalty in the Champions League, that I am in agreement with. However, Ronaldo missed one in the Champions league final for us against Chelsea if I remember correctly, and another one in the European Championships. As far as penalty taking is concerned, it is a lottery. If the goalkeeper guesses right each time then, he could save them all.
 
I'm not sure his move to La Liga was the best decision, it made it possible for people to compare him directly to Messi (since they both play the same teams 40-50 times a season) and it's clear he's come up short, be it trophies won, productivity stats, performances and personal accolades. At least if he was still in the PL his relative shortcomings would be masked by hypotheticals of playing in a different league, against different opposition and the likes.​
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Don't even go there because we all know what happened. Messi missed a penalty in the Champions League, that I am in agreement with. However, Ronaldo missed one in the Champions league final for us against Chelsea if I remember correctly, and another one in the European Championships. As far as penalty taking is concerned, it is a lottery. If the goalkeeper guesses right each time then, he could save them all.
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Ronaldo also missed in two Champions League Semi Finals, one for us against Barca in 2008, another in 2012 for Madrid against Bayern. I think Messi is less likely to bend under that pressure
 
Lynk said:
Ronaldo also missed in two Champions League Semi Finals, one for us against Barca in 2008, another in 2012 for Madrid against Bayern. I think Messi is less likely to bend under that pressure
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He did, and very few have forgotten that and I agree with you Lynk. On another topic, I asked a question earlier. It had something to do with the Ballon D'Or and if Messi hadn't been around, there is a shared opinion that Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row. However, there is a slight flaw in that those who think Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row, also thought that Sneijder was better than Messi in 2010, who was better than Ronaldo in 2010. I will ask the question again, if Messi had not been playing would Ronaldo have won the Ballon D'Or 5 times in a row or do the same posters think Sneijder deserved it more than Ronaldo, since he won the league and Champions League?
 
Proud_Lyon said:
He did, and very few have forgotten that and I agree with you Lynk. On another topic, I asked a question earlier. It had something to do with the Ballon D'Or and if Messi hadn't been around, there is a shared opinion that Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row. However, there is a slight flaw in that those who think Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row, also thought that Sneijder was better than Messi in 2010, who was better than Ronaldo in 2010. I will ask the question again, if Messi had not been playing would Ronaldo have won the Ballon D'Or 5 times in a row or do the same posters think Sneijder deserved it more than Ronaldo, since he won the league and Champions League?
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If Messi has not been playing, we'll be the best club in the world and Ronaldo wouldn't have left us for a challenge in an inferior league. So it's possible that Ronaldo might win it 5 times in a row.
 
elmo said:
If Messi has not been playing, we'll be the best club in the world and Ronaldo wouldn't have left us for a challenge in an inferior league. So it's possible that Ronaldo might win it 5 times in a row.
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On the contrary, he left simply because he was a childhood fan of Real Madrid and he followed his dream. Even if Messi hadn't been here, Ronaldo would have still agreed with Blatter about the slavery, Mourinho would have still won the Champions League and the league with Inter Milan with Sneijder being their best player.
 
Okay so we all know Messi can score goals but look here ..go easy on me guys just trying to make my point why I think Ronaldo is not as terrible when compared to Messi as everyone seems to be willing to think.
Decisive Goals... I think Ronaldo has scored more against stronger teams. What this means basically is that say for instance Real Madrid is down 1 or its a tied game Ronaldo always comes through and scores the decisive goal. Found this little fact don't know if its accurate


It's Ronaldo who is ahead, and substantially so: 27 to 23. He is also ahead when you look only at Liga games: 20 to 17. Again, there could be many explanations for this, mainly to do with the respective styles of the two clubs, but hey, those are the numbers.
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Goals against tougher opponents

Ronaldo also finishes ahead of Messi in another category: goals against tougher opponents in La Liga. I looked at games against opponents who were in the Liga top 10 at the time Real Madrid played them (rather than at the end of the season; the idea being that clubs -- especially those in mid-table -- ebb and flow during the year). Ronaldo also holds a substantial edge here: 18 to 12.
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People who watched the Copa match last night will remember the incident where Ronaldo did an abrupt stop turn and the fullback got hurt. Hugo Mallo was the victim and he's out for 6 months with a cruciate ligament.



After the match Ronaldo went to see him in the dressing room, wished him luck etc, swapped shirts. The player and his manager sounded really grateful for it, a "detallazo" - as the player said. Rather than, "I done my knee in and all I got was this lousy football shirt...."

IMG-20130110-WA0000.jpg
 
Red_devil_ said:
Okay so we all know Messi can score goals but look here ..go easy on me guys just trying to make my point why I think Ronaldo is not as terrible when compared to Messi as everyone seems to be willing to think.
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Don't worry about it. Just enjoy watching him (and in fact them) play. I know it's difficult when people come out with all that "head and shoulders" above, "light years" ahead etc stuff. Some people will never see Ronaldo play better than Messi - even when he does.

Because whatever happens Messi will always be the more elegant player, and Barca's game revolves around the art of sharp passing around the edge of the box opening up an opportunity whereas Ronaldo defines opportunity as "I can see the goal".

Personally I like the slightly insane, tilting at windmills game that Ronaldo plays and in matches like their last two where they needed a "stand up and be counted" player not just to score the goals but to make the team keep fighting, he's brilliant. Like I say, you're not mad. He is a brilliant player.
 
Amar__ said:
There were two or three poor misses in his first CL game for us(at Old Trafford if I'm not wrong), that was probably his worst game so far, eventhough he still played fairly good. He is good, isn't he? :D
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Best we've had since Ronaldo.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
He did, and very few have forgotten that and I agree with you Lynk. On another topic, I asked a question earlier. It had something to do with the Ballon D'Or and if Messi hadn't been around, there is a shared opinion that Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row. However, there is a slight flaw in that those who think Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row, also thought that Sneijder was better than Messi in 2010, who was better than Ronaldo in 2010. I will ask the question again, if Messi had not been playing would Ronaldo have won the Ballon D'Or 5 times in a row or do the same posters think Sneijder deserved it more than Ronaldo, since he won the league and Champions League?
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Sneijder would have deserved it more, no doubt. I could also see Iniesta and/or Xavi getting at least one of the other five (assuming Barca would have someone pretty good, even if not Messi). Ronaldo hasn't been anywhere near as dominant as Messi.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
He did, and very few have forgotten that and I agree with you Lynk. On another topic, I asked a question earlier. It had something to do with the Ballon D'Or and if Messi hadn't been around, there is a shared opinion that Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row. However, there is a slight flaw in that those who think Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row, also thought that Sneijder was better than Messi in 2010, who was better than Ronaldo in 2010. I will ask the question again, if Messi had not been playing would Ronaldo have won the Ballon D'Or 5 times in a row or do the same posters think Sneijder deserved it more than Ronaldo, since he won the league and Champions League?
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Who finished second those years?
 
Yeah dont worry about justifying your opinion, you will get nothing lol smilies because everyone is a barca/messi fan here.
 
antohan said:
Sneijder would have deserved it more, no doubt. I could also see Iniesta and/or Xavi getting at least one of the other five (assuming Barca would have someone pretty good, even if not Messi). Ronaldo hasn't been anywhere near as dominant as Messi.
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I'm not sure if Barcelona would be as good or dominant without Messi to be honest, last year they had him in the form of his life and still were left without any major trophies.
 
acnumber9 said:
Who finished second those years?
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Not the right way to go about it since Messi voters would not necessarily default to the second placed. In fact, you would expect an inordinate number of them to switch back to Xavi or Iniesta (who also have been splitting votes between them throughout).

All academic of course, it's the classic dilemma over whether Messi would be as good without those two and the same for those two without Messi.
 
antohan said:
Not the right way to go about it since Messi voters would not necessarily default to the second placed. In fact, you would expect an inordinate number of them to switch back to Xavi or Iniesta (who also have been splitting votes between them throughout).

All academic of course, it's the classic dilemma over whether Messi would be as good without those two and the same for those two without Messi.
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The first paragraph is assuming that people vote according to thier allegiances right?

I'm not sure people vote like that and think it is worth noting who came second in those years personally.
 
acnumber9 said:
Who finished second those years?
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Whether he was 2nd or not is not the issue here though ac. A large number of posters thought Sneijder deserved it a great deal more in 2010 considering what he had done with Inter Milan. We cannot say that Ronaldo would have won 5 Ballon D'Ors on the bounce simply because Messi didn't play football since, there are other factors to take in. Inter Milan were the most successful side in Europe at the time and, even as a Messi fan, Sneijder deserved it probably a little bit more than him. Even this year it should have been Iniesta first, Messi second and Ronaldo 3rd, since he had a great European Championships and he has had a successful start to this season.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Whether he was 2nd or not is not the issue here though ac. A large number of posters thought Sneijder deserved it a great deal more in 2010 considering what he had done with Inter Milan. We cannot say that Ronaldo would have won 5 Ballon D'Ors on the bounce simply because Messi didn't play football since, there are other factors to take in. Inter Milan were the most successful side in Europe at the time and, even as a Messi fan, Sneijder deserved it probably a little bit more than him. Even this year it should have been Iniesta first, Messi second and Ronaldo 3rd, since he had a great European Championships and he has had a successful start to this season.
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Surely the only way to roughly guess who would've won the awards had Messi not been around is to guess it might be the next one wih he most votes. Obviously the Messi votes would've went elsewhere but the law of average suggests that more would go to the person in second.
 
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